Captive Orca Population
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Always_Amity
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The decision to go forward with the move of Tokitae back to her home waters was made with the guidance of dozens of industry professionals - scientists, vets, trainers, ect - who are hands-on working with her. It is those qualified professionals who have decided this move is in her best interest and, no offense, but I'm sure they know her limits better than people online with no relevant qualifications who have never met Toki.
Besides, the timeline is her moving in 18-24 months. Tokitae is setting longevity records every breath she takes, and she's sitting stagnant and alone in a rotting stadium with no protection from the elements. There's every chance she won't make it that long, and she'll die in that tank.
But we owe it to her - and to the Lummi Nation, and to every captive cetacean in much worse conditions - to at least try.
Besides, the timeline is her moving in 18-24 months. Tokitae is setting longevity records every breath she takes, and she's sitting stagnant and alone in a rotting stadium with no protection from the elements. There's every chance she won't make it that long, and she'll die in that tank.
But we owe it to her - and to the Lummi Nation, and to every captive cetacean in much worse conditions - to at least try.
ZoologicallyDepraved
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I still disagree with the move but it's nice to know that there will at least be some proper guidance to it.
Alone in a sea pen with no protection from the elements doesn't seem that different other than the natural setting... Nor does it seem the best choice for an elderly and ailing Orca to shunt her from tropical Florida to the frigid waters of the Pacific Northwest. I am no expert in Orca husbandry for sure but a lot of things in this projected move don't seem to particularly benefit her. I agree Miami Seaquarium is not a good place for her, but I don't see the point in sending her cross-country to a sea pen for anything but AR purposes.
My biggest question is does this sea pen exist/can they build it in the stated timeframe? The Puget Sound Orcas are listed as endangered by both Washington state and federally - no doubt this will complicate matters, as well as the area being in a major shipping area. What happens if they build it/are in progress and Lolita dies before transfer? Then what? It's a very real possibility. She's elderly and has health issues; we just lost Kiska who was several years younger.
There are posts on this message board that had previously claimed that qualified professionals said a move would be difficult or fatally stressful for this specific animal and that it wouldn't be recommended for her based on her health. You do raise a valid point that this move is being coordinated with professionals today and isn't being done hastily, but I respect that, but I do want to say I believe these responses are based on previous statements made by professionals at the facility itself that I have seen referenced previously. There is a clear conflict between the Miami Seaquarium's former and current statements on what the animal's level of comfort is and would be in this kind of situation, and I think it's understandable that there would be disagreement.
I'm not claiming to understand the situation itself at the aquarium, it's possible these former statements were false or that new information/research has come to light that makes releasing her seem more feasible to them, I'm only adding context to why the forum is how it is and trying to clarify that this is not any kind of anti-science situation.
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My take is that, if nothing else, her current living conditions are so poor that the move is worth the risk to her. If the two options are to let her waste away in a horrible place, or to take a chance on giving her some good years, I'm going with the latter.
Besides, this doesn't just have the opportunity to improve her welfare. A lot can be learned from this effort. The information gained can be used to help more whales and dolphins in the future. I have my fingers crossed that it can be used towards conservation efforts.
While I'm not certain what the staff situation is now at the Seaquarium, two years ago USDA had numerous critical reports, including *numerous* instances of staff ignoring veterinarian requests, incorrect maintenance, improper mixing of individual animals, and more. USDA ended up serving them an ultimatum - either no longer have Lolita on public display or lose their exhibitor's license. Obviously the facility chose the former. USDA records also confirm Lolita has suffered injuries from both improper care and inappropriate trained behaviors for a geriatric orca.
Things seem to have improved per the most recent report - which did still have minor corrections - but I'm still skeptical about "decisions made by industry professionals who are working hands on with her." Particularly given an animal rights group is involved in this venture.
I would've hoped people would've learnt from what happened with Keiko. It was a failed experiment. Miserably.
The fact that Lolita's much older and has spent much much longer in captivity (more than half a century!) does worry me as well.
Keiko had an array of health issues, and these persisted even following his release. Lolita's in a similar boat, and being a much older whale than Keiko was, it just makes it so much worse.
Not to mention the reliance on humans. Keiko followed people around everywhere even after his release. He would constantly approach fisherman, and would often stay in ports and harbours for long periods of time purely for human interaction. No reason to assume Lolita won't do the same.
There's also no reason to assume Lolita will be accepted by a pod (even her own, L pod). Again, it's been half a century. And Lolita has not been with another orca for 40+ years.
I just hope the professionals have thought this well out. Her age and health are concerning factors for this and it would be horrible if something goes wrong.
Tokitae reuniting with her pod and living happily in the wild is the ultimate happy ending, but I'm not getting my hopes up about that and I don't think most people are. Most likely she'll remain under human care for the rest of her life, but hopefully under better conditions.
ZoologicallyDepraved
Well-Known Member
Some people are still clinging on to that sadly. I've seen people saying "why can't she just be reunited with her pod?" and the ignorance just kills me.
It’s important to recognise that Lolita has been in captivity for almost 53 years now. It’s a very long time, and it’s unreasonable to assume her former pod would remember her.
Her mother Ocean Sun is apparently still alive and out there (aged in her 90’s).
In fact, all current other members of L pod (besides Ocean Sun) were all born following Lolita’s capture in 1970; the next oldest being born the year after (1971).
The L pod’s population has also fluctuated a great deal over the years, raising many concerns amongst scientists. They seem to have the lowest survival rate of all the Southern Resident pods. In fact, their population has decreased sharply since 1994; which is presumably why they’re a relatively younger pod, with the exception of Ocean Sun.
Ocean Sun being her mother is often mentioned but there's no actual evidence of this. Her age is also very much assumed.
There is; Lolita's vocalisations have been studied and have shown to match those only emitted by the L25 line (Ocean Sun's matriline). So she's either Lolita's mother or grandmother.
equidae
Well-Known Member
Do you have any evidence for this? Any citations? I'm yet to see any of those groups quoted in an article.
Realistically, the decision to go forward was made for good publicity and to reduce the economic burden her presence creates on the park.
She may end up thriving, she may not, but her welfare is definitely not their main consideration.
Do you have a link for this?
I read it awhile ago, but I imagine if you do some research you'll find a lot of articles mentioning it.
In saying that, they still haven't confirmed Lolita's mother. Most believe it to be Ocean Sun, but it's also possible Ocean Sun's sister (Alexis) or her daughter (Tsunami) were Lolita's mother.
I didn't, which is why I asked.
Yes. SWO is the most viable option for her right now. In just a few months Lolita could be living in a bigger place and maybe start to be introduce to the pod but we can all imagine how the general public will react to that after the "blackfish effect".
They will rather take long time to move her out (with the risk of her dying even before the move) and to a much different environment (with all the effects that can have on her as it has been already mentioned that she doesn't adapt easily to new changes) just to avoid more pressure from the animal right movement.
Anyways. I really hope this turns out good but right now I have more doubts than anything else.
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