cat genetics

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jay

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I was going to post this under the ungulates as it relates to the sumatran tigers!:confused:
An excellent article in the Science Magazine about the cat family tree. One really interesting thing that I took from it was
Many of us would know that the cheetah as a species has a low genetic divirity because of a near extinction. But this also the case apparently for the Tiger and Cougar!
I never knew this.
 
But what about the South China tiger? This seems to be suffering badly from so-called 'inbreeding depression' as only a very few founders have bred and there's all sorts of problems with the zoobred stock... Same for white tigers too?
 
3 legged wild tiger.

Have a look on the 'News Feeds' thread at the new photo of a three legged Wild Sumatran tiger, taken as it walks through a camera trap.

What a sad, sad picture, yet amazingly it seems in reasonable condition so how has it managed to catch enough prey to stay alive- presumably it subsists on small animals only.

Here's a case where this poor tiger could perhaps be taken into captivity to survive longterm and perhaps add its wild genes(its a male) to the zoo population. Or would this prove even more stressful for it than its existing life?

What do others think?
 
actually grant under certain circumstances i'm an absolute advocate of capturing endangered species from the wild to inject genetics of captive populations, and as you said, this here cat is a perfect candidate.

however i would in return expect zoos to be able to replace wild animals removed with captive counterparts, say on a take one add two kind of basis. as we all kow when it comes to big cats, this is no easy task at all!!!

i mentioned a while ago that i think zoos should look at gene transfer projects, whether it be AIing wild females with sperm from zoo bred males or bringing wild animals tempoarily into captivity. in stress reduced breeding centers on location.

of course at the same time we must be sure to adequately protect the habitat these projects are taking place in and ensure their is enough available territory. the former being a particuarly hard feat...

i had no idea pumas and tigers experienced "bottlenecks" like the cheetah!!
 
a new snow leopard from stuttgart zoo has arrived at melbourne recently. also, was anyone aware of the problems melbourne had with their sumatran tiger cubs recently, in terms of their health? i just found an online reference to them, and their condition sounds similar to that of the three cubs born at taronga in 2003. myabe inbreeding ;)
 
Glyn
how'd you find out about the snow leopard, any more info about it?
 
Also here's what I know of the Melbourne cubs family tree.
Wild born -- Frank (of Melbourne) --Selatan --Ramalon -- the cubs
Wild Born -- Poetry (of Melbourne) -- Selatan
Raga(of Rotterdam) -- Meta(of Taronga) -- Shiva -- Ramalon
Nico (of Taronga) -- Shiva
Hermes -- Binjai -- The cubs
Musi -- Binjai

Not complete but no inbreeding yet - I'm sure that we looked further there will be common ancestors. The most I have here are 4 generations
Jason
 
i saw the snow leopard when i visted last week. she's about four but has if i remember right she has actually been at the zoo for at least a year now. they have another more elderly "pair" of snow leopards, but are looking to source a new male to breed with the german female. the older snow leopards have never bred, no idea why...
 
Think I read somewhere that they have had the same problem overseas a lot.
Apparently if snow leopards are raised together, or even if they are introduced to each other before totally mature they develop a strong
brother-sister relationship and are resistant to mating with each other.

The opposite appears to be the case with clouded leopards. If they are not familiarised with each other at a young age, there is a very great danger that the male when introduced to the female will kill her rather than mate with her.
(In zoos, anyway. How they get on in the wild, no one knows.)
 
i assume in the wild there are plenty more places to hide and get away from eachother and less places to be cornered..

traditionally zoos like keeping animals in pairs so they have a "friend" in the same enclosure. its a stupid system as it doesn't reflect most species natural behaviours and also is unproductive as animals often must be castrated or on contraceptives to avaoid the animals multiplying (taronga cased their snow leopard to become barren afer they placed her on contraceptives when she was too young so they could display her alongside their male cat) and supprisingly it was only a couple of years ago that zoos around here started making split male/female enclosures.

i suppose its a difficult thing to do - double or tripple the number of enclosures for near every species held, but a necessity nontheless.
 
Pat if you are right then that is the same snow leopard that came in about the same time as Tarongas breeding pair, making it about two years ago.
 
yep - thats right. i'm certain its the same animal, this isn't anything new. i expect melbourne are looking at re-furbishing the big-cat enclosures, and devoting them almost entirely to snow leopards since they have no plans to mainatain the jaguars, clouded or persian leopard or pumas that share the exhibits now.
 
As I recall there are about six enclosures at the big cat alley, is this correct? I wouldn't mind if Mel had several individuals, or more than one breeding pair of snow leopards. I wonder if several of those cages could be incorporated into one. They wouldn't have to spend a lot of money tp make an excellent snow leopard area there.
 
In zoos there's often a conflict between breeding and display. If Melbourne did turn several cages into one, it would make a better display, but at the expense of breeding ---places for fewer animals.
 
on the contrary, i think it would be even more effective, particularly if it got them breeding in the first place.
sorry Pat, my info isnt groundbreaking, lol, Jay, you can find links from the zoos homepage or on Victoria's ABC including a you tube clip. if all these enclosures were converted to snow leopard, and perhaps one or two reserved for dhole, melbourne zoo would be much better placed to boost regional capacity of both potential species.
the whole thing could be redone for snow leopards and dhole without any significant changes-some nice new 'bamboo' handrails, some prayer flags, stone flagging and rock walls, and select plantings (to the usual melbourne high standard) and we would get a great asian highland area without huge funds being needed, or until funding became available for something bigger.
in terms of flagship species, id love to see melbourne in the future limited to..
asian elephants
orang
gorilla
tiger
s. leopard
small primates right through to gibbons, siamang and mandrill
both tapir species
p. hippo
small cats
bongo if possible
carnivores like sun bears eventually, dhole, maned wolf, otter, meerkat, fennec fox, coati, red panda, bla bla.
no lions, no giraffe, no sebra, no hunting dogs, no brown bears, and NO PUMAS OR JAGUARS ;)
 
The red panda could also be incorporated into the himalaya experience. While I would hate to see the african animals disapear from Mel I can see where you are coming from Glyn. The whole african area needs to be revamped.
It would be interesting to see what will happen to the brown bears area when they finally pass on. How old are the bears?
 
i have also wondered the age of the bears. the big cat alley/bear section can be revamped into an asian higland area with ease. more than anything it just requires some new plantings and a reshuffle of the species.

i think they should rebuild the cages at the front and just have numerous double-ups of snow leopards and another himalayan cats species the region wants to focus on. golden cats are probably the best choice, but fishing cats are in the lower elevations (but more commonly associated with swamps in the terai)..
 
patrick said:
i have also wondered the age of the bears.
Click to expand...

Aren't they siblings that were born in another zoo in your region? So it should be possible to find out. There were three when I saw them, not sure if they were 1.2 or 2.1. Is it still three of them nowadays?
 
My thoght is that the bears aren't siblings , the ones that you are thiking of are now at Mogo zoo, cubs of melbourbes pair.
 
the 2 animal at melbourne are a male and female, unrelated, and there 2 offspring are at mogo, honey and pooh.
 
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