Cetaceans in captivity

[Merintia]

I think anticap activists had nothing to do with the extinction of those species. Both reached the edge of the extinction much earlier than the anticap movement became so popular, and captive breeding programs should have started long time ago. Was the apathy of the governments what made them dissapear. The first and only attempt to keep Baiji in captivity was in the 80s, if I´m right, when the movement didn´t exist (and considering the ton of new dolphinariums on the country, I doubt it even exist today in China). With Vaquita, is the same history. And in Mexico, there are about 30 dolphinariums, and capture and sale of Bottlenose Dolphins was legal until 2002 (or so). Then Vaquita was already highly endangered, but any attempt was made to keep some in captivity.

 

[Kakapo]

Just my two cents on cetaceans in captivity and animal activists:

Captivity is a very powerful tool to ensure the survival of a species. However, I feel that the utmost care should be given to cetaceans. Small Dolphins and Porpoises like the Commerson's, Bottlenose, and Pacific White Sided are generally ok with me. If they get the care they deserve at places like Shedd, I am completely fine. The Bigger dolphins and smaller whales, I feel, generally should be kept in sea pens over tanks due to size.

However, the real problem seems to be the two sides on the issue. The activists vs zoos. Two sides of the same coin. From what I see, the activists love the individuals within a species and the zoos love the species. Imagine if all those activists could direct their attention towards conservation issues rather than fighting against those that also support conservation issues. If we could have done THIS then we may have had a chance at saving the Baiji or the Vaquita.

Part of the solution to this problem could simply be communication. I recently spoke to a woman who was somewhat against zoos. I brought up the topic of how my zoo releases wolves into the wild as well as other conservation activities and she seemed rather surprised that zoos did that. By the time I brought up that the zoo was a non profit she seemed to be somewhat swayed. After giving a few examples of zoo conservation, I feel that most people can start to understand the purpose of a zoo. Some good things to bring up are generally, the amount of EW species saved by zoos, amount of species brought back from extinction by zoos, non profit zoos, and how species not seen in zoos fare.

In my humble opinion, I disagree in some points. The size of the species kept is not the only factor that should make we feel in one way or another for cetacean captivity. If a bigger species is kept in an enough big tank and with the adequate care, there is no problem with that. In fact, an enough big and enough enriched tank is basically the same than a sea pen of the same size. Commeron's dolphin is small, but due to his needs of cold water it's much more difficult to keep in captivity than many bigger species, in fact not a small number of Commerson's died or had a short life because they was being kept in too warm locations like San Diego. By other side, orcas that are much bigger, are much easier to keep in captivity with good happiness and good reproductive success. Items like a too specialized diet, a need of deeper waters, and many other things are what makes a cetacean adequate for be kept in captivity or not, not (just) the size.

I would never call activists and zoos as two faces of the same coin. They're completely different coins. The activist tend to love individuals and ignore the species. At least for the radical ones like the members of PETA. For they, would be the same if all the endangered species of the world turn into asian elephants. I would not use the phrase "fight again those that ALSO support conservation issues". Zoos (or at least major zoos) support conservation issues. Activist do just the contrary. They are agaist conservation. And like Merintia said, I don't think that activist played a role in extinction of baiji and vaquita. They fight against zoos, but not agaist the species in the wild. The lack of a captive stock of these species probably were due to lack of enough worlwide interest in them before they become endangered.

About the solution, also in my opinion, this is not totally true. Information, explanation about zoo roles, etc would be very useful in change the mind of just normal people (most of which, sadly, dislike zoos or think in they as jails as if they were the old menageries of a century ago). But not activists. Most activists are a different level, and show them the roles of zoo conservation would be at most times like talking with a wall (a thread about this is somewhere in Zoochat, I think).

 

[The Speeding Carnotaurus]

In my humble opinion, I disagree in some points. The size of the species kept is not the only factor that should make we feel in one way or another for cetacean captivity. If a bigger species is kept in an enough big tank and with the adequate care, there is no problem with that. In fact, an enough big and enough enriched tank is basically the same than a sea pen of the same size. Commeron's dolphin is small, but due to his needs of cold water it's much more difficult to keep in captivity than many bigger species, in fact not a small number of Commerson's died or had a short life because they was being kept in too warm locations like San Diego. By other side, orcas that are much bigger, are much easier to keep in captivity with good happiness and good reproductive success. Items like a too specialized diet, a need of deeper waters, and many other things are what makes a cetacean adequate for be kept in captivity or not, not (just) the size.

I would never call activists and zoos as two faces of the same coin. They're completely different coins. The activist tend to love individuals and ignore the species. At least for the radical ones like the members of PETA. For they, would be the same if all the endangered species of the world turn into asian elephants. I would not use the phrase "fight again those that ALSO support conservation issues". Zoos (or at least major zoos) support conservation issues. Activist do just the contrary. They are agaist conservation. And like Merintia said, I don't think that activist played a role in extinction of baiji and vaquita. They fight against zoos, but not agaist the species in the wild. The lack of a captive stock of these species probably were due to lack of enough worlwide interest in them before they become endangered.

About the solution, also in my opinion, this is not totally true. Information, explanation about zoo roles, etc would be very useful in change the mind of just normal people (most of which, sadly, dislike zoos or think in they as jails as if they were the old menageries of a century ago). But not activists. Most activists are a different level, and show them the roles of zoo conservation would be at most times like talking with a wall (a thread about this is somewhere in Zoochat, I think).

My mistake, should have said something more along the lines of "future species that also face extinction". What you say is certainly true of the bigger activists, I was more generally referring to the activists I had met who, admittedly, were not as crazy as some of the ones I have heard of. PETA is absolutely horrendous; I don't think a single person on this forum would think otherwise. In regard to the size comment, I can't help but feel some of the tanks provided for orcas, while sustaining their needs, are not large enough for me to be comfortable, just an opinion though.

Out of curiosity, do most activist groups really not care about Biodiversity or Conservation?

 

[TinoPup]

The first and only attempt to keep Baiji in captivity was in the 80s, if I´m right, when the movement didn´t exist (and considering the ton of new dolphinariums on the country, I doubt it even exist today in China).

There were multiple kept in captivity, and several other attempts, in the 90s and early 2000s. I can't recommend this book enough: Witness to Extinction

 

[Merintia]

Sorry, didn´t explain correctly. I was criticising the apathy of the governments and my comment was about them. I readed that book years ago so probably I don´t remember correctly, but if I´m right, the attempts in the 90s and 2000s were made by a foundation with very poor support from Chinese government and only a female was caught (that died few time later), what was not surprising since for then the species was already almost dissapeared.

Out of curiosity, do most activist groups really not care about Biodiversity or Conservation?

Sadly not. The problem is that for animal rights activists, the welfare of the individual animal is more important that the species or environment, so their position is incompatible with conservation. For them, actions like the elimination of a cat or goat plague on an island for protect an endangered species of bird or lizard are unacceptable because they consider all equally valuable. Add some anthropomorphism and a worrying ignorance about natural world, and you have a very dangerous combination. For example, this campaign happened in Spain few months ago. We have a serious problem with introduced Red-eared Sliders, abandoned from people that get tired of them as pets, that are invading the areas of our native turtles, but one of the biggest animal rights society here made this poster: FAADA where you can read "thank you for let me free"...

 

[toothlessjaws]

As a few others have stated here, I think hypothetically we can keep any species in captivity. In my opinion the arguments should not revolve so much around if , but instead around how.

I think in general, zoos need to take a good hard look at themselves regarding the way they house most of their charges, but there is a small handful of species that evoke an especially passionate response from people - and for good reason. These species represent some of the most extreme examples of inadequacies.

In my opinion, cetaceans deserve spaces the size of lakes or coves. Elephants deserve a hundred acres and apes deserve tens of acres. I don't wish zoos stop keeping them in captivity. I just wish they started doing it right.

And its actually not too much to ask or remotely unrealistic.

 

[TheMightyOrca]

Just my two cents on cetaceans in captivity and animal activists:

Captivity is a very powerful tool to ensure the survival of a species. However, I feel that the utmost care should be given to cetaceans. Small Dolphins and Porpoises like the Commerson's, Bottlenose, and Pacific White Sided are generally ok with me. If they get the care they deserve at places like Shedd, I am completely fine. The Bigger dolphins and smaller whales, I feel, generally should be kept in sea pens over tanks due to size.

However, the real problem seems to be the two sides on the issue. The activists vs zoos. Two sides of the same coin. From what I see, the activists love the individuals within a species and the zoos love the species. Imagine if all those activists could direct their attention towards conservation issues rather than fighting against those that also support conservation issues. If we could have done THIS then we may have had a chance at saving the Baiji or the Vaquita.

Part of the solution to this problem could simply be communication. I recently spoke to a woman who was somewhat against zoos. I brought up the topic of how my zoo releases wolves into the wild as well as other conservation activities and she seemed rather surprised that zoos did that. By the time I brought up that the zoo was a non profit she seemed to be somewhat swayed. After giving a few examples of zoo conservation, I feel that most people can start to understand the purpose of a zoo. Some good things to bring up are generally, the amount of EW species saved by zoos, amount of species brought back from extinction by zoos, non profit zoos, and how species not seen in zoos fare.

The issue with cetaceans is that the few species common in captivity aren't endangered, and there haven't really been many attempts to keep species for conservation breeding purposes. There were attempts with the baiji and vaquita, but both of those were started far too late to work out. That doesn't mean that captive breeding can't be useful for cetaceans, but the argument is harder to use when there aren't examples to work with.

I think anticap activists had nothing to do with the extinction of those species. Both reached the edge of the extinction much earlier than the anticap movement became so popular, and captive breeding programs should have started long time ago. Was the apathy of the governments what made them dissapear. The first and only attempt to keep Baiji in captivity was in the 80s, if I´m right, when the movement didn´t exist (and considering the ton of new dolphinariums on the country, I doubt it even exist today in China). With Vaquita, is the same history. And in Mexico, there are about 30 dolphinariums, and capture and sale of Bottlenose Dolphins was legal until 2002 (or so). Then Vaquita was already highly endangered, but any attempt was made to keep some in captivity.

Agreed. And not only was it the apathy of governments, but the apathy of wildlife conservation groups. No one even attempted captive breeding programs until it was far too late for them to have any effect. Hell, no one attempted ANYTHING until it was too late.

This all begs the question, do you guys think there are any cetacean species that would be suitable for conservation-focused breeding programs? Finless porpoises are at a lot of risk so I honestly am glad that there are captive breeding programs focused on them, but it doesn't seem like there are many other good candidates. Maaaaaybe belugas, but none of the facilities that currently hold them breed them with conservation/SSP in mind. Even if the New Zealand government allowed for the capture of Maui's dolphins for a breeding program, their population is probably too small to allow the risk. (I know that Hector's dolphins have been kept in captivity but I dunno how well they did)

 

[Merintia]

This all begs the question, do you guys think there are any cetacean species that would be suitable for conservation-focused breeding programs? Finless porpoises are at a lot of risk so I honestly am glad that there are captive breeding programs focused on them, but it doesn't seem like there are many other good candidates. Maaaaaybe belugas, but none of the facilities that currently hold them breed them with conservation/SSP in mind. Even if the New Zealand government allowed for the capture of Maui's dolphins for a breeding program, their population is probably too small to allow the risk. (I know that Hector's dolphins have been kept in captivity but I dunno how well they did)

I think would be nice to have captive populations of Ganges and Indus River Dolphins, they are already endangered and I wouldn´t be surprised if in few years they´ll follow the same fate than Vaquita or Baiji. Not sure if they´d do well in captivity, but their populations are still "big" enough to allow the risk of some captures. Maybe La Plata River Dolphin could be another candidate, their range is not so restricted but the mortality rates due fishing nets are worrying.

 

[FBBird]

As a few others have stated here, I think hypothetically we can keep any species in captivity. In my opinion the arguments should not revolve so much around if , but instead around how.

I think in general, zoos need to take a good hard look at themselves regarding the way they house most of their charges, but there is a small handful of species that evoke an especially passionate response from people - and for good reason. These species represent some of the most extreme examples of inadequacies.

In my opinion, cetaceans deserve spaces the size of lakes or coves. Elephants deserve a hundred acres and apes deserve tens of acres. I don't wish zoos stop keeping them in captivity. I just wish they started doing it right.

And its actually not too much to ask or remotely unrealistic.

Have you worked with any if these species?

 

[Kakapo]

I think would be nice to have captive populations of Ganges and Indus River Dolphins, they are already endangered and I wouldn´t be surprised if in few years they´ll follow the same fate than Vaquita or Baiji. Not sure if they´d do well in captivity, but their populations are still "big" enough to allow the risk of some captures. Maybe La Plata River Dolphin could be another candidate, their range is not so restricted but the mortality rates due fishing nets are worrying.

Another good candidate is Dall's porpoise. While is not considered at risk by IUCN, the number of yearly killings for meat is devastating. I wonder how it manages to be still not endangered. If just some proportion of these captures would be transported alive to various aquariums with good breeding success experience with cetaceans, instead be killed in the sea...!

 

[TheMightyOrca]

I think would be nice to have captive populations of Ganges and Indus River Dolphins, they are already endangered and I wouldn´t be surprised if in few years they´ll follow the same fate than Vaquita or Baiji. Not sure if they´d do well in captivity, but their populations are still "big" enough to allow the risk of some captures. Maybe La Plata River Dolphin could be another candidate, their range is not so restricted but the mortality rates due fishing nets are worrying.

Yeah, I'm also really concerned about river dolphins, particularly the South Asian and La Plata ones. Like the baiji and the vaquita, they aren't very well known to the public and they don't get a lot of attention from conservation groups either. I fear we're gonna see the same thing, where their populations keep dropping and no one does anything until it's too late. I wouldn't be opposed to captivity experiments if they're done with conservation in mind.

Another good candidate is Dall's porpoise. While is not considered at risk by IUCN, the number of yearly killings for meat is devastating. I wonder how it manages to be still not endangered. If just some proportion of these captures would be transported alive to various aquariums with good breeding success experience with cetaceans, instead be killed in the sea...!

Actually, there have been (admittedly old) attempts to keep Dall's porpoises in captivity and they went poorly. They have to be constantly swimming fast to shed dead skin so they'd need a pretty big tank. Plus apparently the Navy says they were a huge pain in the ass to keep.

Part of the reason I want to see a cetacean sanctuary get built is because I think it could potentially have some conservation benefit. Many cetas don't do well in a tank, but what if they can do well in a larger, more natural environment like a sea pen sanctuary? There's potential to keep a bigger variety of species and the offspring might have an easier time transitioning to life in the wild.

 

[toothlessjaws]

Have you worked with any if these species?

No. Have you observed any of these species in the wild?

 

[DesertRhino150]

I think a big reason why cetaceans are so controversial in captivity is their enclosures have not been developed since they were first built and environmental enrichment has been slow to implement. I have been reading an article in the 2017 issue of International Zoo Yearbook about environmental enrichment for killer whales and a lot of the ideas there I think would be good (with some altering, depending on species) for other cetaceans as well:

Vocal communication
- Using a satellite communication system to allow different populations of captive cetaceans to communicate with each other, using volume-control options to make groups kept in collections further away sound further away to the receiving animals. One group of bottlenose dolphins have been given an acoustic on-off switch for an underwater hose they play with, and such a control could be used in this vocal communication enrichment to allow the animals to decide whether or not they want to communicate.

Feeding
- Electronic feeders with alarm-system beams that the animals must break to release food. The number of triggers required to release food and the beam locations could be easily changed to provide a more stimulating task. Some could be set to operate at night, giving the animals something to occupy themselves when the staff are not present.
- For suction-feeding cetaceans such as killer whales, belugas and harbour porpoises, food could be hidden in piles of boulders or pipes. Further stimulation could be added by varying the size, amount and type of food hidden.
- Some feeders could encourage teamwork. For killer whales, a tethered 'ice-floe' with basins of fish floated in the pool could encourage the wave-washing behaviour some groups use to hunt seals. Some feeders could be programmed to release food only when the animals vocalise together, as has been done with the bottlenose dolphins at Kolmarden. For bottlenose dolphins, other ideas could include a 'feeding beach' where the dolphins must beach themselves to wash fish out of basins (to mimic the strand-feeding of some populations, like in South Carolina) or a feeder that only releases food when a tube is filled with air (to mimic bubble netting).
- For killer whales, some alternative food such as duck or rabbit could be provided to mimic the birds and sea otters that wild killer whales occasionally prey on.

Health and fitness
- There is the possibility of training animals to hold their breaths to mimic deep dives; such behaviour could bring health benefits and has been done with grey seals at the Sea Mammal Research Unit in the UK.
- Including sloping boulder beaches and possibly growing live kelp (protecting the holdfast in a trench or hole) would provide sensory stimulation and allow the animals to perform their own skin care.
- The inclusion of wave machines and swim currents have been included in exhibits for pinnipeds, penguins and polar bears but the exercise and challenges they offer have not been extended to cetaceans.

Environmental
- Making the pool's edges and bottom less harsh would be beneficial. Installing thick rubber blocks in the poolside walls where no edges are free to be chewed on would provide a more tactile surface than concrete. Also, quieter spots of the pool with cooler water and shade structures would provide areas to retreat from the public and reduce tensions in the group.
- In some areas of the pool wall, embed the sound-absorbing tiles installed on nuclear submarines; this would allow the cetaceans to exercise full-volume acoustics that will disappear into the distance before finally returning apparently weaker from afar. This should only be in small parts of the pool to ensure the animals do not crash into the pool walls and have narrow patches of less sound-absorbent material in the tiles to alert the cetacean to the presence of a barrier.
- It may be beneficial to provide cetaceans with wild sounds such as underwater calls of fish, seals and other cetacean species.

With just some of those ideas implemented, I imagine quite a few of the apparent problems with cetacean captivity would likely be considerably lessened.

 

[vogelcommando]

Bottle-nose dolphins in Japan :

Japan aquariums turn to breeding dolphins instead of taking from wild

 

[vogelcommando]

Study on the Rough-toothed dolphins at the Gulf World Marine Park :

Rough-toothed dolphin whistles to be studied at Gulf World

 

[vogelcommando]

Study on longivity of dolphins in captivity vs dolphins in the wild :

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...lLGGOezQ0BtVirNyjwowbn-tR5fBsGhsQEljmPrDjEM1g

 

[drill]

I think the percentage here would be drastically different if we made separate polls for whales and dolphins.

 

[TheMightyOrca]

'Russian spy' whale has defected to Norway, locals claim

Wasn't sure if this is the right thread to post this in, but a beluga wearing a harness has shown up in Norway. Most people think it's a Russian military whale. Do you guys have any theories?

 

[ZooBinh]

'Russian spy' whale has defected to Norway, locals claim

Wasn't sure if this is the right thread to post this in, but a beluga wearing a harness has shown up in Norway. Most people think it's a Russian military whale. Do you guys have any theories?

I guess its plausible? Doesn't Russia have Norwegian territories off the coast?

 

[toothlessjaws]

Might be worth removing that harness first.....