Well, they're both urban zoos that strive for something like an encyclopaedic collection. I think that's a mistake for both of them, though moreso for Ueno, which is half the size. I think Berlin would benefit a lot from taking advantage of the Tierpark's existence to rationalise its large mammal collection, but as I said above there's only a handful of other major zoos that I think cater to them consistently better (on reflection I should have added Beauval to the list though).
CGSwans flies north for the winter
- Thread starter CGSwans
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Well, they're both urban zoos that strive for something like an encyclopaedic collection. I think that's a mistake for both of them, though moreso for Ueno, which is half the size. I think Berlin would benefit a lot from taking advantage of the Tierpark's existence to rationalise its large mammal collection, but as I said above there's only a handful of other major zoos that I think cater to them consistently better (on reflection I should have added Beauval to the list though).
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
Totally reasonable point. Obviously Berlin's high ranking is in spite of most of its enclosures, and because of its collection, although the scope of its collection necessitates the size of the enclosures.
Perhaps Zurich should be restated as requiring completion, not modernisation, as we discussed in my own thread. It doesn't matter that Berlin is already what it wants to be, whereas Zurich is someway off. I think it does matter that Zurich's calling card is great exhibits. That makes a poor one count for more than in Berlin where it's barely trading on that at all.
Plus there is the simple fact that Zurich doesn't have any giraffes or rhinos or hippos...
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
@CGSwans I'd be curious to know which ape houses are worse than Zurich's. Off the top of my head I can only think of Duisburg that gives it a run for its money
For birds and herptiles/fish Berlin is pretty good, for small mammals it's decidely average and for large mammals there are some really undersized offerings. I'm with Anton on this one I think.
For birds and herptiles/fish Berlin is pretty good, for small mammals it's decidely average and for large mammals there are some really undersized offerings. I'm with Anton on this one I think.
In the end it is mostly personal preference when it comes to rankings and those differ between diffferent people:
Why do we love zoos; a summary in stereotypes
Why do we love zoos; a summary in stereotypes
As noted before my personal top 10 tends to vary slightly from day to day, but it has experienced a slightly bigger shake-up today:
1) TP Berlin
2) Prague Zoo / Burger's Zoo
4) Zoo Berlin / Chester Zoo
6) Plzen Zoo
7) Walsrode
8) Wilhelma
9) Cotswold Wildlife Park
10) Tierpark Hellabrunn
In other words, I loved Burger's.
Been giving this some thought. I don't think I'll be able to make a ranking but I can probably put together a top ten. While I've not always been sure in the past, nowadays I think Chester definitely belongs there. My personal top 10 would definitely include (in alphabetical order):
Arnhem
Berlin
Berlin
Chester
Prague
Plzen
Vienna
Zurich
...with the last two drawn from the below depending on my mood:
Plzen
Vienna
Zurich
...with the last two drawn from the below depending on my mood:
Antwerp
Basel
Budapest
Cologne
Leipzig
NurembergBasel
Budapest
Cologne
Leipzig
Rotterdam
Stuttgart
Wroclaw
Wuppertal
That said, somewhere like Munich could probably feel legitimate grievance at being left out, and places like Ostrava and Zlin are improving and/or expanding so rapidly that they'll be right up there soon.
Today I'm leaning towards Cologne and Nuremberg as having the fewest obvious flaws combined with a little nerdiness and so the best claim on top tennishness.
So let's say:
Arnhem
Berlin
Berlin
Chester
Cologne
Nuremberg
Prague
Plzen
Vienna
Zurich
But ask me tomorrow and those last two spots would probably change!
Berlin
Berlin
Chester
Cologne
Nuremberg
Prague
Plzen
Vienna
Zurich
But ask me tomorrow and those last two spots would probably change!
Me too. It just ticks all the major boxes for me. I am wrecking my head trying to think of my own top ten - I can’t right now offhand - but I know that this zoo would be very near the top, if not at the very top, for me.
On a side note, I’m pleased to see some favour towards Basel. As I’m planing to go this year for the first time, I’m glad to see that it comes recommended.
Not having enough zoos of my own under my belt to compose a meaningful European top 10, I have calculated a 'compounded zoochat zoonerds' European top 10', based on the - currently 8 - top ten lists in this thread. Method: sort by average rank, where average rank = the average ranking accross all lists, where ranking = the actual ranking in each list with unranked zoos or zoos with ranking >10 receiving ranking 11.
...
#-----average rank-----#mentions---------ZOO
1-----3.25-----------------8--------------------Prague
2-----3.625---------------7--------------------Berlin
3-----5---------------------8--------------------Berlin TP
4-----5.5------------------6--------------------Zurich
5-----6---------------------6--------------------Chester
6-----6.5------------------6--------------------Arnhem
7-----6.625---------------7--------------------Plzen
8-----6.75-----------------5--------------------Vienna
9-----7.5------------------6--------------------Cologne
10---8.75-----------------5--------------------Nuremberg
...
#-----average rank-----#mentions---------ZOO
1-----3.25-----------------8--------------------Prague
2-----3.625---------------7--------------------Berlin
3-----5---------------------8--------------------Berlin TP
4-----5.5------------------6--------------------Zurich
5-----6---------------------6--------------------Chester
6-----6.5------------------6--------------------Arnhem
7-----6.625---------------7--------------------Plzen
8-----6.75-----------------5--------------------Vienna
9-----7.5------------------6--------------------Cologne
10---8.75-----------------5--------------------Nuremberg
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It makes sense that Prague comes out top of that list, because it's the one that offers something to all of us. It has an enormous collection to please the species hunters. Exhibit quality is variable but it has some genuinely first-class enclosures to please the aesthetes. None of us have put it outright first, I don't think (edit: my apologies, Funky), but it manages to straddle the things that otherwise divide us.
Wouldn't this assessment also fit Leipzig? I'm quite surprised this zoo only makes into one of the eight top ten lists in this thread.
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
I came to this thread looking for my own top ten, but this quote jumped out at me. Do you think Ostrava is elevating itself enough that the 'Czech Four' will become five?
Dvur presumably being the third of the four, possibly five?
FunkyGibbon
Well-Known Member
Yes exactly.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
As a Czechophile, or to be more accurate a Czechzoophile, I think I would struggle to hive off a top four and elevate them beyond the others. Prague is certainly a top one, and Pilsen (despite the interesting and possibly valid counter argument expressed elsewhere by, for example, @lintworm), is hot on its heels. After that, I wouldn’t say there are a number of excellent zoos, and although it is probably fair to put Dvur and Zlin at the head of that list, Brno, Ostrava, Jihlava and Ohrada are all very strong (but not yet as consistently strong, perhaps, in the case of the first three). Of the other traditional zoos in the country, it would be hard to argue other than that Usti, Olomouc and Decin are anything other than some way behind - even if all three have elements which are very appealing.
And I get to visit six of the top, very strong and very appealing element zoos that you’ve listed here in just three weeks’ time . . . I truly can’t wait. I feel like I’ve been waiting forever for this trip to come around! For me, this is probably the biggest and most varied trip I will ever do within one European country; it’s certainly an extremely exciting place to visit.