ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Chimp escape at Whipsnadfe

[Pertinax]

For your information Whipsnade had tried to integrate the two additions from London into their group, but the nature of the whipsnade group and the low number of females made this impossible. However despite many attempts this had not been possible as the whipsnade males are very aggressive to females, consequently the staff at whipsnade were trying to make the best of a far from ideal situation and I think were coping admirably. The enclosure that the pair escaped from had housed chimps for many years without incident so nobody could have predicted this taking place.

Andy

A few queries;

1. I don't understand why Whipsnade have had for a long time now such a pecularly imbalanced group of chimpanzees (5 males, I (until recently,2) females.. As a result the group compares very unfavourably with say, Chester's near perfect social organisation of several adult males and large number of females and young.

I appreciate at Whipsnade there have been a number of male births, but why no attempt to add some more females to give a more natural balance? Some years ago ZSL sent their large breeding group of Chimpanzees to Dudley as they had no room for them in the Sobell enclosure (they received two old females, including Koko's mother Cherry, in exchange). As Dudley have never bred from this large ZSL group of females (and I believe, since the death of their old male Pepe,have not had a male at all), why could Whipsnade not exchange a couple of their males for a couple of the (ZSL) females now at Dudley? Is it due to the different 'races' involved?

Its hardly surprising Whipsnade couldn't integrate this old pair. Firstly the high proportion of males in the existing group may be one reason. Secondly,irrespective of the sexes involved, it could prove impossible(as they found) to integrate two fully adult newcomers into a small established group anyway.

2. Has it been made public how this pair of Chimpanzees escaped from their enclosure yet?

 

[Pertinax]

I think it was correct to assume that staff who may have worked with these animals for years in London may be unhappy that one of their long-term residents escaped within 24 months of moving.

It is worth noting in this context that Jonny and Koko had not lived at ZSL all their lives(I'm not suggesting you implied that) though they were long term residents for maybe 10/15 years...

I don't have the dates but they appeared at ZSL about the time the large ZSL group of females were sent to Dudley. They then were joined by the two old Dudley females Cherry and Cindy- Cherry being Koko's mother.. Dudley's male Pepe stayed behind and was added to the new large ("breeding") group in the purpose built enclosure though in fact there have been no babies and he has died. (So there are still about eight breeding age females at Dudley which haven't bred ever since leaving London Zoo, even though Dudley wanted to exhibit a large breeding colony.)

I'm pretty sure their final move to Whipsnade was a policy decision on ZSL's part not to have Chimpanzees anymore- and it was easy to transfer the remaining two(I do not know what happened to Cindy and Cherry- died?) to Whipsnade in the hope of integrating them into the group. As we know, that sadly hasn't worked. I would like to see Whipsnade reorganise their group to give a more normal sex ratio, in which case it may still be possible to integrate the female 'Koko'

 

[Pertinax]

History of Johnny and Koko

The two chimps Jonny and Koko have been living at ZSL for considerably longer than I originally thought.

koko- born 1973 at Dudley, arrived at Regents Park in 1982.
Jonny- was deposited by 'Wild Animal Kingdom'(Woburn?) in 1983. No other details e.g zoo born or wildcaught are given.

Jonny fathered several offspring to other females at ZSL, but KOko hasn't bred.

 

[bongorob]

Whipsnade intend to keep Koko, but if she can't be intergrated with the rest of the group, would they really want to keep her on her own.

 

[Pertinax]

Whipsnade intend to keep Koko, but if she can't be intergrated with the rest of the group, would they really want to keep her on her own.

I think Whipsnade should obtain two or three more females, either by exchanging a male or two, or just by addition. Then try integrating Koko with them and then introducing them as a group together. I'm still doubtful if they'll succeeed with her on her own as she's badly outnumbered. (She's better off going somewhere else in that case.)

I don't understand why Whipsnade have that big outdoor island and only a small group of mostly male chimps to live on it. Its such a contrast to Chester, whose chimp group is really excellent(as is Arnhem's in Holland and Taronga Park's in Oz)

 

[jwer]

Erm, are you all talking about a lot of hybrid chimps? Because Arnhem's group is largely hybrid and they are aiming to shift towards a pure verus group.

If they are all hybrid or from unknown origin then it wouldn't be weird if noone really is trying to upset a reasonably stable group with costly transports in order to achieve absolutely nothing...

 

[Pertinax]

Erm, are you all talking about a lot of hybrid chimps? Because Arnhem's group is largely hybrid and they are aiming to shift towards a pure verus group.

If they are all hybrid or from unknown origin then it wouldn't be weird if noone really is trying to upset a reasonably stable group with costly transports in order to achieve absolutely nothing...

With most chimps( a large number overall) in zoos of unknown race or mixed ancestry, I think its an almost impossible task to start trying to breed only from 'pure' verus animals.

I would prefer to still see large socially well balanced groups of chimps kept, irrespective of races.. If they want to breed only from animals of known race that's okay too but what do a zoo like Arnhem propose to do with all the chimps they don't want for the new programme? Presumably they keep them on contraceptives?

Adding a few females to a group like Whipsnade's would achieve something- a properly balanced social group...

 

[jwer]

With most chimps( a large number overall) in zoos of unknown race or mixed ancestry, I think its an almost impossible task to start trying to breed only from 'pure' verus animals.

If zoo's would try, it wouldn't be impossible since there are enough pure founder animals...

I would prefer to still see large socially well balanced groups of chimps kept, irrespective of races.. If they want to breed only from animals of known race that's okay too but what do a zoo like Arnhem propose to do with all the chimps they don't want for the new programme? Presumably they keep them on contraceptives?

Adding a few females to a group like Whipsnade's would achieve something- a properly balanced social group...

Arnhem holds a large portion of their group on contraceptives, as far as i know at least.

This is more of an inquery then a debate, but would you conceive to be a properly balanced group? Since many animals come from all sorts of backgrounds i doubt they know what a "normal" chimp group would consist of.

In which case i would deem any group that has a leader and normal social interaction between their members without too much fighting a "properly balanced social group". What would you expect to change in their behaviour and/or social interaction when more females would be added? As far as i know it's not like the different sexes in chimps differ hugely in their behaviour...

 

[Pertinax]

This is more of an inquery then a debate, but would you conceive to be a properly balanced group? Since many animals come from all sorts of backgrounds i doubt they know what a "normal" chimp group would consist of.

From all I've read about Chimps in the wild, it seems that the sexes live roughly equally in numbers in wild groups(clans), but the females and adult males have their own organisations and heirarchies with female 'kin' groups of mothers and related young, and male 'coalitions' for hunting and territorial defence from other clans.

In captivity I think a group which contains a multi-male element allows males to exhibit some of this male-orientated behaviour as well as male/female relationships. I do think the groups that have attempted to emulate this such as Chester, Arnhem, Taronga etc do make very good exhibits.

Interestingly, Monkey World, the Ape rescue centre, have also formed large groups of chimpanzees, containing roughly equal numbers of both sexes. Nearly all of these came originally from deprived/humanised backgrounds. Yet even they seem to have been able to develop into naturally- behaving groups with normal relationships.

 

[monkeyworld]

I have a few questions if anyone could answer :

1. Any updates on koko is she with the group ?

2 . Did you know zephey and bonnie are brother and sister

3. Who is Grants mother ?

4. How many chimp offspring have they had ?

5. How many chimps have been at chester


many thanks for any1 help

 

[James27]

I know that all the chimps are now in the main group, and that none of them are kept separately in the holding cage.