Taronga Zoo Chimpanzee Troop
- Thread starter Chimo
- Start date
It seems near miraculous to me that Kamili survived infancy, and it certainly seems as though it would similarly so for her to be successful in raising an infant herself. If the intention is for her to have an infant, surely the only real chance would be to move her on to a facility that is open to hand-rearing/use of a surrogate (and even then, the danger from Koko might be present- assuming they'd stay together). Does Taronga do any type of 'mother training' with her? It's such a shame; it could only be good news for Koko and Kamili to have another family member, but I won't be holding my breath. 
From my own observations Kamili ahs been much more involved with the current 3 infants than in previous times. She wasn't overly fussed on Fumo when Kuma foisted him upon her in the early days when he was the sole infant, but Koko has been really good with the infants once they have become more mobile around the exhibit. I think that Kamili may have learned some things by watching 3 different mothering styles in recent times... I feel that there may be some hope for her yet...
I have seen Kamili actively engaging with Liwali of her own volition... which almost brought tears to my eyes, as it was quite sweet to see... *grin*... then again, she might have been playing nice to get in good with Lisa... lol!
Koko should not be allowed near newborns, and that's all I'll say on that point... but she is exceptionally fond of playing with the infants... go figure!?! She's Fumo's fave aunty in fact!
T.
I have seen Kamili actively engaging with Liwali of her own volition... which almost brought tears to my eyes, as it was quite sweet to see... *grin*... then again, she might have been playing nice to get in good with Lisa... lol!
Koko should not be allowed near newborns, and that's all I'll say on that point... but she is exceptionally fond of playing with the infants... go figure!?! She's Fumo's fave aunty in fact!
T.
That's encouraging; interesting that Koko's actually great with kids. It sounds as though Kamili would actually enjoy motherhood if she was able to work out what to do with a newborn. I am glad that she is at least getting something out of the babies in the group, must be very enriching if nothing else. 
I thought Koko was captive born privately in Europe (Dec. 1974) before being sent to Rotterdam in May of 1976 then to Melbourne in September of the same year. That's from Rotterdam's records anyway.
There's a lot of contradicting info about Koko's origins. There's also a claim that she was handraised as a pet (which I have found no evidence of), but would explain her anti-social behaivour and poor maternal skills.
I think if Kamili is to remain at Taronga Zoo, they should not hold back breeding her again. Especially considering her encouraging behaivour towards the latest infants, which was not seen in the past. Five years ago, Taronga commented Kamili was generally intolerant of infants but got on well with Shikamoo (then a juvenile).
I think the best course of action would be to identify a surrogate in the troop, and place Kamili (heavily pregnant) in a separate area alongside the troop with the chosen surrogate/surrogates and Shikamoo and Sule (both who get on well with Kamili and have displayed strong paternal behaivour towards Fumo etc.). The most likely course of action would be Kamili giving birth and rejecting the baby, which would then be investigated and hopefully protected by Shikamoo and Sule. Ideally the surrogate would then step in and take over the raising of the baby. If the surrogate was lactating, all well and good, but if not then the surrogate could be trained to present the baby for bottle feeding at the mesh, as has been done at over facilities.
This course of action should not be dismissed without trialling it. Kamili has given birth three times. It is suggested the first offspring was killed, either by Shiba or Koko, so these two should be removed from the equation and dismissed as surrogates. Her second offspring was stillborn, and her third birth suffered interference from Koko again, so the introduction of a surrogate has not been possible so far. It is not unheard of in chimpanzees, as seen recently at Monarto Zoo.
I think the best course of action would be to identify a surrogate in the troop, and place Kamili (heavily pregnant) in a separate area alongside the troop with the chosen surrogate/surrogates and Shikamoo and Sule (both who get on well with Kamili and have displayed strong paternal behaivour towards Fumo etc.). The most likely course of action would be Kamili giving birth and rejecting the baby, which would then be investigated and hopefully protected by Shikamoo and Sule. Ideally the surrogate would then step in and take over the raising of the baby. If the surrogate was lactating, all well and good, but if not then the surrogate could be trained to present the baby for bottle feeding at the mesh, as has been done at over facilities.
This course of action should not be dismissed without trialling it. Kamili has given birth three times. It is suggested the first offspring was killed, either by Shiba or Koko, so these two should be removed from the equation and dismissed as surrogates. Her second offspring was stillborn, and her third birth suffered interference from Koko again, so the introduction of a surrogate has not been possible so far. It is not unheard of in chimpanzees, as seen recently at Monarto Zoo.
That does sound a sensible option if Taronga is open to potentially needing to assist in feeding an infant with a surrogate. I do wonder what negative implications there might be to either herself or Koko if they were separated. The grandmother of our Galatea at Monarto acted as a surrogate mother many years ago, and was conditioned to bottle feed the baby herself. After a while she was stimulated to produce milk herself. It seems as well that there have been a lot of surrogate successes in the US in recent years. I'll keep on hoping for a Kamili baby success.
If she remains at Taronga, I'd go as far to say it's the only way to go. Kamili turns 21 this year and is in her prime, she is currently on contraception but I see no reason to delay breeding her any further as infant viablity decreases from 30's onwards.
I'm not sure who the best candidates for surrogates would be (Tdierix would have a better idea than me), but I'm guessing Shona who has acted as a surrogate for a juvenile before, or one of the adolescent females (Lani and Sembe) would be the best choices? Kuma and Shiba are successful mothers but both high ranking females that are probably the biggest risks of infanticide in the group.
If using a surrogate at Taronga was used as an option, separation of Koko and Kamili would only be temporary, from just prior to the birth, to after the acceptance and bonding of the surrogate to the infant. Any minor stress this would/may cause would be outweighed by the benefits of breeding this genetically valuable female successfully. I think it's important to consider that Koko is heading for her mid 40's and realistically only likely to live another 15 years. This will leave Kamili, then in her mid 30's alone in the community. Assisting her in raising an offpsring, especially if it can be returned to her, will at least offer her some family support down the line.
Has anyone seen the new females, Ceres (1990), Hannah (1993) and Naomi (2001) yet?
If so, how do they compare to the females in the current troop? Are they large females like Shiba or Kuma, or smaller like Sacha?
Anyone know of any interaction between them and the main troop through the separating mesh?
I understand the plan for introductions is to introduce them to Lubutu first, then other significant members of the troop.
If so, how do they compare to the females in the current troop? Are they large females like Shiba or Kuma, or smaller like Sacha?
Anyone know of any interaction between them and the main troop through the separating mesh?
I understand the plan for introductions is to introduce them to Lubutu first, then other significant members of the troop.
Hannah is the chimpanzee on the right (being groomed) in this picture. I was told by one of her former keepers at Warsaw (where incidentally Zombi's full brother lives). https://www.facebook.com/1701149200...149200102010/1701149376768659/?type=3&theater
Interesting pic Soona. She has quite a youthful, pretty face, similar to Sacha's family. She has a small amount of pink pigmentation (indication of youth), combined with grey hair around her face (sign of maturity). What a strange combination!
If anyone can give more info on the size of the new females, whether they seem large, or small etc. would be much appreciated.
Taronga has posted a detailed update on the chimp situation: https://taronga.org.au/news/2016-08-19/progress-report-female-chimp-introductions
It makes for very interesting reading, but unfortunately doesn't name any individuals.
It makes for very interesting reading, but unfortunately doesn't name any individuals.
Mother and daughter are Koko and Kamili... 14 year old female is Lani... Alpha male is Lubutu, other male is Shabani, and beta male I'm assuming is Samaki.
Senior female with 2 offspring could well be Sasha, with Shikamoo and Sule - or Kuma with Furahi and Fumo... ?? The last 3 will certainly make for some interesting action methinks... errr! I'd go Sasha with Shikamoo and Sule... and leave the mothers with really young ones until later...
T.
Senior female with 2 offspring could well be Sasha, with Shikamoo and Sule - or Kuma with Furahi and Fumo... ?? The last 3 will certainly make for some interesting action methinks... errr! I'd go Sasha with Shikamoo and Sule... and leave the mothers with really young ones until later...
T.
Both Samaki and Shabani have been introduced... to bring Shiba in with the 2 younger ones now could spell an upset to the Alpha status of Lubutu - if leaving the other females with young outside the new group...
It could be disastrous if something were to happen to one of the really little guys during these introductions... and I'm tipping that the solo new female that is still unsettled needs to settle the hell down before I'd put babies and mothers in with her...
Just sayin'...
T.
It could be disastrous if something were to happen to one of the really little guys during these introductions... and I'm tipping that the solo new female that is still unsettled needs to settle the hell down before I'd put babies and mothers in with her...
Just sayin'...
T.
Thank Soona for posting the link to the updates, I see they go back to July but I haven't been on the website recently. I think the primate keepers at Taronga Zoo are doing a fantastic job of keeping everyone updated. It's great they realise there is high interest in the introductions, and they are willing to share information. It's a shame they're not naming individuals, but with the combined knowledge of the people on this thread, I think we've identified most of them!
Like Tdierikx mentioned, the first pair to be introduced were the low mother and daughter are Koko and Kamili. It's interesting how when the males were introduced, the didn't side with either Koko/Kamili, or the new girls during conflicts. #notmyfamilynotmyproblem
I wrongly assumed Shabani was the beta male. It's clear the 24 year old male introduced after the alpha and beta males is Shabani, although technically he is 22 years old (1994). Tdierikx has identified Samaki as the beta male. Not surprising considering he is the largest male, and has acted as a strong source of support to Lubutu, whereas Shabani does not. Still, I doubt Shabani liked little bro getting in on the action before he did!
Cool to hear about the positive interactions between Lani and the new females. Lani (2002) is close in age to Naomi (2001). It's nice for Lani to have some female company her age, especially since she is not especially close to Sembe (2008). I'll be interested to hear how Sembe gets on with the new females.
Taronga Zoo use the phrase: We will need to introduce a more senior female next week, along with her two offspring . In my opinion, this reads to suggest the female has only two offspring (at TZ), otherwise, it would say along with two of her offspring. This narrows it down to Sacha or Kuma. I'm confused by the term 'senior' as Sacha (1980) is senior in age; Kuma (1991) is senior in ranking. I agree however, that Sacha, Shikamoo and Sule are the most likely choice, given the desire to keep the three infants out of the mix until aggression has levelled out, and the more relaxed temperaments of Shikamoo and Sule, as opposed to Furahi.
I think Lisa, Shiba and Kuma will be the most challenging to introduce to the newcomers. Lisa because of her high ranking, and Shiba and Kuma, because of their ranking/size/temperaments.
Interesting how reference is made to one of the new females not adjusting so well as the other two, and showing sign of aggression at inappropriate times. I'm guessing this is Hannah, as Ceres and Naomi are sisters and would have had a similar upbringing/socialisation.
Like Tdierikx mentioned, the first pair to be introduced were the low mother and daughter are Koko and Kamili. It's interesting how when the males were introduced, the didn't side with either Koko/Kamili, or the new girls during conflicts. #notmyfamilynotmyproblem
I wrongly assumed Shabani was the beta male. It's clear the 24 year old male introduced after the alpha and beta males is Shabani, although technically he is 22 years old (1994). Tdierikx has identified Samaki as the beta male. Not surprising considering he is the largest male, and has acted as a strong source of support to Lubutu, whereas Shabani does not. Still, I doubt Shabani liked little bro getting in on the action before he did!
Cool to hear about the positive interactions between Lani and the new females. Lani (2002) is close in age to Naomi (2001). It's nice for Lani to have some female company her age, especially since she is not especially close to Sembe (2008). I'll be interested to hear how Sembe gets on with the new females.
Taronga Zoo use the phrase: We will need to introduce a more senior female next week, along with her two offspring . In my opinion, this reads to suggest the female has only two offspring (at TZ), otherwise, it would say along with two of her offspring. This narrows it down to Sacha or Kuma. I'm confused by the term 'senior' as Sacha (1980) is senior in age; Kuma (1991) is senior in ranking. I agree however, that Sacha, Shikamoo and Sule are the most likely choice, given the desire to keep the three infants out of the mix until aggression has levelled out, and the more relaxed temperaments of Shikamoo and Sule, as opposed to Furahi.
I think Lisa, Shiba and Kuma will be the most challenging to introduce to the newcomers. Lisa because of her high ranking, and Shiba and Kuma, because of their ranking/size/temperaments.
Interesting how reference is made to one of the new females not adjusting so well as the other two, and showing sign of aggression at inappropriate times. I'm guessing this is Hannah, as Ceres and Naomi are sisters and would have had a similar upbringing/socialisation.
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