Chimpanzees in Europe
- Thread starter ShonenJake13
- Start date
Emilia__
New Member
In Sweden Kolmården current population
Claudius, Fiffi, Figaro, Mariana, Mamba, Marley, Madicken, Marie, Mona, Maud, My-Gun, Martin, Maggan, Citrus, Fred, Mika, Mango, Marko
Max, Madeleine, Moa, Maya, Malte, Majken transfered to Guatemala in fall 2016
Frida died of natural causes October 2016
Negra was euthanized 2019 of an older age and health issues related to her age
Marit, Mia transfered to Antwerpen in fall 2021
Claudius, Fiffi, Figaro, Mariana, Mamba, Marley, Madicken, Marie, Mona, Maud, My-Gun, Martin, Maggan, Citrus, Fred, Mika, Mango, Marko
Max, Madeleine, Moa, Maya, Malte, Majken transfered to Guatemala in fall 2016
Frida died of natural causes October 2016
Negra was euthanized 2019 of an older age and health issues related to her age
Marit, Mia transfered to Antwerpen in fall 2021
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
Where are Bally and Limbo,the Chimps who survived the Fire at Krefeld Zoo now?
Still in Zoo Krefeld. Last month, the construction of a new outdoor enclosure for them started.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@MennoPebesma are these Chimps still in temporary accommodation with the Gorillas. I’m surprised Krefeld Zoo has not sent the Chimps to Monkey World. Hujan a baby Orangutan born at Krefeld went to Monkey World. I know the keepers think highly of the Monkey World staff. It would make sense for these Chimps to go to Monkey World. If this happened Krefeld could welcome a new Chimpanzee Family.
In Gdansk a young chimp is born to parents Lola and Sambor.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
Monkey World in Dorset is about to welcome a Mum and her Son. These Chimps are coming from America. https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjVydnZ7-r5AhUHQEEAHStKDlwQFnoECCEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prudentpressagency.com%2Fthis-is-how-they-prepare-the-chimps-in-the-ecopark-to-be-taken-to-a-sanctuary-in-the-uk%2F&usg=AOvVaw0L78p2eRVXfYw4s0lgjxUw
Can someone please update me on Bally and Limbo at Krefeld Zoo? I advocate that Bally and Limbo move to Monkey World. Monkey World is the most experienced sanctuary of it’s type. Furthermore Krefeld Zoo sent Hujan their baby Orangutan to the sanctuary. At Monkey World Bally and Limbo would have social interaction with other Chimps and an outdoor enclosure. I think the pair would be suitable to join Bryan’s group. My reason for wanting Bally and Limbo moved is they have spent almost 3 years in a small holding cage surrounded by Gorillas. Incidentally how old are Bally and Limbo? I ask as if their elderly then it’s best they remain around familiar Keepers at Krefeld.
Can someone please update me on Bally and Limbo at Krefeld Zoo? I advocate that Bally and Limbo move to Monkey World. Monkey World is the most experienced sanctuary of it’s type. Furthermore Krefeld Zoo sent Hujan their baby Orangutan to the sanctuary. At Monkey World Bally and Limbo would have social interaction with other Chimps and an outdoor enclosure. I think the pair would be suitable to join Bryan’s group. My reason for wanting Bally and Limbo moved is they have spent almost 3 years in a small holding cage surrounded by Gorillas. Incidentally how old are Bally and Limbo? I ask as if their elderly then it’s best they remain around familiar Keepers at Krefeld.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@marmolady I said “ALMOST 3 years”. The key word is almost. I’m not the best mathematician in the world. Yet when I add 2 and a half to New Years Day 2020,I get 2022. If your being pedantic Bally and Limbo have lived in the holding cage for 2 years and 5 months.
Petty quarrel aside how old are Bally and Limbo? No matter the circumstances I think the pair should move to Monkey World. Surly this thought is In the minds of those at Krefeld Zoo. Krefeld Zoo have said themselves that their happy with the Care that Baby Orangutan Hujan is getting. The Krefeld Zookeepers very often travel to Monkey World to catch-up with the team and Hujan. I know Monkey World wouldn’t hesitate about rehoming Bally and Limbo. This is evident as their about to welcome a different Mum and her Son. The fact that Monkey World are already in contact with Krefeld Zoo would make the move of Bally and Limbo easier.
Bally and Limbo haven’t spent any time at all in a ‘small holding cage’. They’ve had a couple of the spacious offshow indoor enclosures, and now have an outdoor enclosure that’s been built for them too.
They haven’t been ‘surrounded’ either - I take it that you believe that multiple species can’t share the same indoor housing if they’re kept separately within said building?
Krefeld moved Hujan on because his mother was ill, the keepers had to step in for a while, and then when they offered him back to his mother she refused to take him back. Hand-rearing is no longer recommended with any apes due to the behavioural disadvantages it causes in later life. Bally and Limbo have each other, a spacious enclosure (that actually gives them outdoor access unlike their previous home that’s now burned down), and a fantastic keeper team.
You say that the move of the Krefeld pair to Monkey World would be made easier because they’re already in contact with one another. Introducing chimpanzees to one another, especially animals that have only ever known each other, can be an incredibly difficult process, and following the fire I can imagine that Bally and Limbo have been through enough stress - so why add more by introducing them to a massive group?
Also, the new monkey world chimps are coming from Argentina…
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Bally and Limbo is a difficult case that is not easy to evaluate. They were set to go to Denmark but this failed as also the zoo in question had to build a new enclosure and it would have taken time, same as Krefeld. The new temporary outside enclosure, which I think still has to be finished and is not public for visitors, oddly is built below the minimum requirements. You can argue that the old house that burnt down certainly was even smaller and did not even offer an outside enclosure (it was tremendously old fashioned and not up to date anymore), but still their new permanent facility won't open before 2029 and that's a long way to go in something that is not matching minimum requirements. There is a controversy, both sides - zoo as well as opponents of apes in zoos - claim independent experts and assessments on their side, but since assessments always deliver the result the client wants to hear you can ignore both as independent source.
So all in all this certainly is not a satisfying situation in Krefeld for the two chimps, but as you say any movement of chimpanzees is a risk and it is not so easy to claim that the two in Krefeld would have it better elsewhere. And Monkey World definitely is not the solution to any issue concerning great apes.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@ShonenJake13 I thought Argentina was South America. Why does this pair of Chimps have to move to Monkey World when the Krefeld pair don’t. Both pairs are in similar situations. Actually the Argentinian Chimps are in a better situation they have large indoor and outdoor enclosures. Would the elder of the pair moving to Monkey World be considered elderly? Finally how old are Bally and Limbo?
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@Pongo what do you mean by this? Monkey World is an amazing place,without it there would be a lot of homeless,abused and neglected Apes,Monkeys and Prosimians. A lot of Monkey World’s residents would be dead had they not arrived. For instance once Chimps used as Beach Photographers reach the age of 8 they are killed. This is because they become too strong to handle. Following the secret killing the Chimps are replaced with younger ones. It horrifies me to think what would have became of the Monkey World residents if they weren’t rescued.
I do not doubt the quality of Monkey World, yet also their capacity is limited. This should rather be a sanctuary for those who really need help badly and not for those who could just have it better.
Regarding Limbo and Bally - it's definitely not good that they are in a small space, but are they really troubled by this? Bally is almost 50 and Limbo almost 30, both have always lived in Krefeld and have never had a bigger enclosure. This definitely is no justification for keeping them in a small spot and I don't consider it being a good move of the zoo to build too small even if it's "only" for a few years. But would it make sense to move a 50 year old chimpanzee elsewhere with all the stress that comes along!? In her age you don't put her in a new group and she needs Limbo on her side. It would not be a surprise if she dies before the new enclosure opens in 2029 (if they are on time). The question rather is what happens with Limbo after Bally dies but this can only be evaluated when this is the case. Besides this, Krefeld is really known for having a great ape expert who works a lot with the animals.
The Hedgehog
Well-Known Member
@ShonenJake13 are the Chimps moving into Monkey World being abused or neglected? I ask as from photos they look extremely healthy and content. I presume that it’s more of a case thier current home is closing/getting rid of Chimps. At at the ages of 14 and 24 would the pair be the equivalent of a Teenager and early 20 year old. I ask as I’m not really sure what would be considered a Young Chimp and what would be considered elderly.
This wouldn’t be the first time Monkey World has welcomed Chips from a closing down facility. In 1993 Rodney,Jess,Arfur,Evie,Jestah,Bixa,Jane and Jane arrived from Windsor Safari Park. This Safari Park was redeveloped into what is now Legoland Windsor.
This wouldn’t be the first time Monkey World has welcomed Chips from a closing down facility. In 1993 Rodney,Jess,Arfur,Evie,Jestah,Bixa,Jane and Jane arrived from Windsor Safari Park. This Safari Park was redeveloped into what is now Legoland Windsor.
littleRedPanda
Well-Known Member
I have emailed the facility to ask on your behalf if they have been neglecting or abusing the chimps.
Does anyone know which chimps at Chester are related going all the way back to the very first chimps and also which chimps used to be on which island
All the Ape species mature more quickly than humans. A 14 year-old of any of them is either fully, or nearly fully adult in males, while in females they may already have had more than one offspring. There seems a trend in some zoos nowadays on name/description display boards for Apes, to identify their ages and consequent behaviour with equivalently-aged humans. So they call a gorilla of say, 13 years old, a 'teenager', whereas a 'teenage' ape, both physically and emotionally is really much younger- say between 8 & 10 in a male gorilla while it is still a blackback. It is somewhat of a misleading interpretation for visitors.
Zoo Antwerp obtained permission from the coordinator of the breeding programme to breed with the chimpanzees. A subgroup has now been created with the male Chita (P. t. troglodytes) and females Mia and Marit (both hybrid?) and alternately another quiet female. It is uncertain whether the male is also fertile. Mia and Marit no longer get contraceptive. The moment one of the two ladies is pregnant, the subgroups are put back together.
Source: Na 30 jaar opnieuw kleintjes bij chimpansees in Antwerpse Zoo? Mia en Marit van de pil gehaald
Source: Na 30 jaar opnieuw kleintjes bij chimpansees in Antwerpse Zoo? Mia en Marit van de pil gehaald
Yes, Marit and Mia are both hybrids and came from Kolmarden Zoo in Sweden. Marit was originally supposed to be sent to Taronga Zoo in 2015, so it’s interesting to know she ended up here!