Werribee Open Range Zoo Chimps and Gorillas for Werribee
- Thread starter snowleopard
- Start date
torie
Well-Known Member
well Taronga has 20 chimps so im sure they can spare one or two!
Taronga also has two male gorrilas under 1 year atm so n the next 6 or 8 years they will ned somewhere to go and the werribe exhibit will be finished by then (?) maybe they can create a bachelor group wih the ones from melbourne?
ill just comment on melbourne zoo's orang enclosure. i think it is an extremely well-done exhibit, a full immersion experience. presenting animals in pristine environments is nice if you can do it, but the orang exhibit fits within the wider asian rainforest and is representative of the critical fight for space between people and wildlife.
in this sense the enclosure is very well done; the outdoor enclosure is nicely landscaped and the artificial bamboo poles blend in well with the vegetation and are a practical alternative to real bamboo.
given space limitations etc, what melbourne has done is to present a well-interpreted exhibit with a functional animal group. it may have compromised full live vegatation but thats not a bad thing.
in this sense the enclosure is very well done; the outdoor enclosure is nicely landscaped and the artificial bamboo poles blend in well with the vegetation and are a practical alternative to real bamboo.
given space limitations etc, what melbourne has done is to present a well-interpreted exhibit with a functional animal group. it may have compromised full live vegatation but thats not a bad thing.
If Chester's new enclosure is anything to go by, the Orangs would trash live vegetation very quickly in those parts of the enclosure which they use a lot. In Chester's case that's the indoor(planted) areas, when I went it looked like a hurricane had hit them..they are trying again I think. The outdoors are very well planted too and by contrast so far look untouched, presumably because they are larger areas the Orangs don't use very much compared to the indoor areas.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
The melbourne orang enclosure I agree is a very well made exhibit, making a Bamboo Jungle on the outside, it has a nice set up as compared to the usuall rope course,
I haven't seen the Melbourne exhibit so am not in a position to comment on it. But my opinion is that the prime requirement for a good orang exhibit is that the animals do not need, nor feel the urge, to use the ground. That is they can spend their lives off the ground, as they do in the wild. Then they need to be entertained up there. Vegetation is very nice for us humans to look at, but for the orangs is just so much browse or enrichment.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I think from what I've seen that the orangs would want to use the ground very much as there is very little flat surface, boards and bamboo pilliars act as the tree top, and of course there is also the indoor enclosure,
Here's a more detailed article about the future Gorilla exhibit at WORZ.
Gorillas in the West - Zoos Victoria
Hopefully construction will start in the next couple of years.
Gorillas in the West - Zoos Victoria
Hopefully construction will start in the next couple of years.
best move?
okay, melbourne definitely have a problem on their hands and they definitely need a new exhibit to house extra males. but is moving the bachelor gorillas to werribee permanently really the best solution?
certainly in terms of management or gorilla care there is not really an issue. werribee will be just fine.
but what i'm more concerned about is the open range zoo and melbourne losing some of its identity when i feel instead those different identities need to be strengthened.
see i don't really understand the werribee zoos decision to align itself permanently with an "africa" theme. most people associate open range zoos with large herd-living animals, such as hoofstock. with so little african hoofstock species available in australia i question the future of the collection planning running along these lines. by sticking to african species and phasing out most of the non-african species, werribee has become quite depleted in the numbers of ungulate species held.
and open range zoos do best serve ungulates, though by no means do i feel they should be strictly bound to these kinds of animals. the answer to a theme that encompasses all the great attributes of the current zoo and allows options for great expansion is in a theme based, not on africa, but on grasslands.
whilst lacking in species, i believe werribee is poised to be the greatest zoo in australia. its close to the city and the land they got is just superb. i haven't been to dubbo or monarto but from the photos it appears they have nothing on the floodplain and river that werribee scored for its african savannah.
as you all know i'm for moving elephants to werribee exclusively. there they would be the main attractions of an equally magnificent indian themed savannah and separate safari experience, based around the river.
tigers, otters, fishing cats, squirrels, birds and macaques would form the basis of a walking trail. there are no shortage of asian ungulates available in australia and that indian rhino program will eventually benefit from some additional holders. likewise indian rhino are rather tolerant of cold weather.
we've long argued here about the need for melbourne to maintain elephants as an attraction. i disagree, but i do think that forming clearly
different theming and using this as the basis for which species cross-over between the zoos and which don't, is a very wise marketing move, and a good illustration of zoos commitments to redefining themselves and proving whet they are good at and what they arn't.
melbourne is world famous for its gorillas, the zoos logo is a testament to that. do we really need to move them to werribee?
i think melbourne has already proved that is does rainforest immersion well. it was after all, by a long shot, the first zoo in australia to attempt such and exhibit way back in the 80's when it built the now not so "african rainforest" to house its expanding gorilla troop.
its an exhibit thats held up remarkably well - but its time for a makeover.
i suggest a new exhibit is built at werribee to house ALL melbourne's gorillas. whilst they live out there melbourne will be free to demolish and
redevelop the site of it great ape house, keeping the existing rainforest exhibit but rebuilding a new, double story gorilla house with new night dens, kitchen and keeper facilities and indoor exhibit, and visitor access. the site of the old grottoes can be redeveloped into a second larger outdoor gorilla exhibit which can be viewed from inside the gorilla house.
this exhibit won't be strictly for any one troop, rather with an indoor enclosure and two outdoor yards both troops will have the ability to rotate facilities for enrichment and flexibility of management.
when the gorillas return to melbourne, and a relaunch of the african rainforest trail (lets hope we have our pygmy hippos back by then) werribee can commence with the acquisition of chimps to fill the exhibit constructed there. whilst not really being a savannah species, chimps ARE well known to inhabit savannah woodlands in western africa.
likewise, melbourne's giraffe, zebra and the baboons should definitely be moved to werribee permanently.
okay, melbourne definitely have a problem on their hands and they definitely need a new exhibit to house extra males. but is moving the bachelor gorillas to werribee permanently really the best solution?
certainly in terms of management or gorilla care there is not really an issue. werribee will be just fine.
but what i'm more concerned about is the open range zoo and melbourne losing some of its identity when i feel instead those different identities need to be strengthened.
see i don't really understand the werribee zoos decision to align itself permanently with an "africa" theme. most people associate open range zoos with large herd-living animals, such as hoofstock. with so little african hoofstock species available in australia i question the future of the collection planning running along these lines. by sticking to african species and phasing out most of the non-african species, werribee has become quite depleted in the numbers of ungulate species held.
and open range zoos do best serve ungulates, though by no means do i feel they should be strictly bound to these kinds of animals. the answer to a theme that encompasses all the great attributes of the current zoo and allows options for great expansion is in a theme based, not on africa, but on grasslands.
whilst lacking in species, i believe werribee is poised to be the greatest zoo in australia. its close to the city and the land they got is just superb. i haven't been to dubbo or monarto but from the photos it appears they have nothing on the floodplain and river that werribee scored for its african savannah.
as you all know i'm for moving elephants to werribee exclusively. there they would be the main attractions of an equally magnificent indian themed savannah and separate safari experience, based around the river.
tigers, otters, fishing cats, squirrels, birds and macaques would form the basis of a walking trail. there are no shortage of asian ungulates available in australia and that indian rhino program will eventually benefit from some additional holders. likewise indian rhino are rather tolerant of cold weather.
we've long argued here about the need for melbourne to maintain elephants as an attraction. i disagree, but i do think that forming clearly
different theming and using this as the basis for which species cross-over between the zoos and which don't, is a very wise marketing move, and a good illustration of zoos commitments to redefining themselves and proving whet they are good at and what they arn't.
melbourne is world famous for its gorillas, the zoos logo is a testament to that. do we really need to move them to werribee?
i think melbourne has already proved that is does rainforest immersion well. it was after all, by a long shot, the first zoo in australia to attempt such and exhibit way back in the 80's when it built the now not so "african rainforest" to house its expanding gorilla troop.
its an exhibit thats held up remarkably well - but its time for a makeover.
i suggest a new exhibit is built at werribee to house ALL melbourne's gorillas. whilst they live out there melbourne will be free to demolish and
redevelop the site of it great ape house, keeping the existing rainforest exhibit but rebuilding a new, double story gorilla house with new night dens, kitchen and keeper facilities and indoor exhibit, and visitor access. the site of the old grottoes can be redeveloped into a second larger outdoor gorilla exhibit which can be viewed from inside the gorilla house.
this exhibit won't be strictly for any one troop, rather with an indoor enclosure and two outdoor yards both troops will have the ability to rotate facilities for enrichment and flexibility of management.
when the gorillas return to melbourne, and a relaunch of the african rainforest trail (lets hope we have our pygmy hippos back by then) werribee can commence with the acquisition of chimps to fill the exhibit constructed there. whilst not really being a savannah species, chimps ARE well known to inhabit savannah woodlands in western africa.
likewise, melbourne's giraffe, zebra and the baboons should definitely be moved to werribee permanently.
I like all of your ideas Phoenix except for having a gorilla house for the visitors to view into or from because it would take away from the immersion. I'd like a redeveloped area with two or three yards and the gorillas can be rotated around but still have an immersion approach and try to hide all buildings, barriers, wires etc. I especially like your idea of moving chimps into the werribee exhibit because that way Melbourne can keep it's second biggest attraction a more exclusive thing. Only Melbourne and Taronga hold gorillas in Australia.
They already have 8 gorillas...One group has a male with four females and the other group is a male and his two adolescent sons.
pat - personally i would keep the african rainforest much as is, an immersion experience. however at the end of the trail one could enter the gorilla house (where the windows into the kitchen are) where one would be able to view the indoor gorilla exhibit, look out through glass into the redeveloped grottoes (now with a backdrop of trees as one is effectively viewing it the opposite way around) and view a range of smaller african rainforest themed smaller displays and conservation interps. reptiles and even small rainforest birds (such as peter's twinspot) could be displayed.
obviously architecture-wise it would be african inspired and being at the end of the entire trail it would also wouldn't interfere with the immersion theme.
the treetop apes trail can easily be africanised with some rejigging. and i'd keep a couple of male bongo at melbourne and incorporate them into this area and keep a breeding herd at werribee.
obviously architecture-wise it would be african inspired and being at the end of the entire trail it would also wouldn't interfere with the immersion theme.
the treetop apes trail can easily be africanised with some rejigging. and i'd keep a couple of male bongo at melbourne and incorporate them into this area and keep a breeding herd at werribee.
If you were to start all over again, you'd have only a single Zoos Victoria campus, and it would be Werribee. It's a much shorter trip from the city (only 17km closer but better roads) than Healesville and the space is almost unlimited compared to Parkville.
Put the three zoos together out at Werribee and you have one of the world's best zoos:
- Asian Elephants with plenty of space.
- Four species of big cat, three species of canid and bears. Smaller carnivores well represented too, with otters, binturongs, red pandas, meerkats, servals and fishing cats.
- Two species of Great Ape with plenty of scope for a third.
- An excellent collection of lesser apes, monkeys and lemurs with over 15 species in the plan.
- Seals and penguins.
- The big four African ungulates (giraffes, zebras, rhinos and hippos) with a smattering of antelopes as support species for what is one of the best Savannahs in a Western zoo (the floodplain).
- Other ungulates include bison, deer and peccaries for a North American exhibit, Przewalski's horses for the central Asian steppe and dromedaries, oryx and addax for a Sahara exhibit.
- An excellent Australian animal collection that includes over 25 species of mammal and over 100 species of birds.
I know this could never happen because Zoos Victoria would never, ever be able - politically - to close Melbourne Zoo and Healesville Sanctuary. But the cost savings of having just a single campus would be significant. At present, an adult member of the public wanting to visit each of the three zoos once would have to pay about $70 for the privilege. You could easily charge $35 to get into a Werribee with great apes, elephants, bears, seals and a full range of Australian animals... and you'd get 1.5m visitors comfortably. Heck, you might even break two million.
Put the three zoos together out at Werribee and you have one of the world's best zoos:
- Asian Elephants with plenty of space.
- Four species of big cat, three species of canid and bears. Smaller carnivores well represented too, with otters, binturongs, red pandas, meerkats, servals and fishing cats.
- Two species of Great Ape with plenty of scope for a third.
- An excellent collection of lesser apes, monkeys and lemurs with over 15 species in the plan.
- Seals and penguins.
- The big four African ungulates (giraffes, zebras, rhinos and hippos) with a smattering of antelopes as support species for what is one of the best Savannahs in a Western zoo (the floodplain).
- Other ungulates include bison, deer and peccaries for a North American exhibit, Przewalski's horses for the central Asian steppe and dromedaries, oryx and addax for a Sahara exhibit.
- An excellent Australian animal collection that includes over 25 species of mammal and over 100 species of birds.
I know this could never happen because Zoos Victoria would never, ever be able - politically - to close Melbourne Zoo and Healesville Sanctuary. But the cost savings of having just a single campus would be significant. At present, an adult member of the public wanting to visit each of the three zoos once would have to pay about $70 for the privilege. You could easily charge $35 to get into a Werribee with great apes, elephants, bears, seals and a full range of Australian animals... and you'd get 1.5m visitors comfortably. Heck, you might even break two million.
Why oh why don't don't the zoos employ Phoenix as an ideas person
I like the idea of one great campus at Werribee but for it to work it needs public transport. Werribee is a shocker to get to It can take two hours using a train and an infrequant bus service, or by taxi from Werribee station. The thing about Melbourne zoos complex is that it is easy to get to by public transport, train and tram from all over Melbourne. .
I like the idea of one great campus at Werribee but for it to work it needs public transport. Werribee is a shocker to get to It can take two hours using a train and an infrequant bus service, or by taxi from Werribee station. The thing about Melbourne zoos complex is that it is easy to get to by public transport, train and tram from all over Melbourne. .
i like most of the ideas presented.
personally i would love to see giraffe, zebra and ostrich reolcated to werribee and the extra space used to retain elephants on the city campus, which i feel needs to strengthen its involvement in a viable, long term sense with forest type species whilst werribee expands its grasslands focus.
to this end, an expanded asian elephant exhibit, refurbished gorilla exhibit and bew primate and carnivore exhibits.
personally i feel the zoos victoria are losing momentum because they are constantly changing direction. these zoos need a clear vision which clearly outlines their commitment to each and every species and a well executed plan to follow through with these. spending millions upon millions on TOTE only to backflip years later and talk about relocating elephants when dozens of other species are living in underwhelming exhibits seems silly, particularly when, as we have seen in the case of elephants recently that space is not the only criteria for succesful breeding. what is clear is that MZ will need space for growing babies, but this could still be accomplished in the city by utilising the space currently used for african ungulates.
personally i would love to see giraffe, zebra and ostrich reolcated to werribee and the extra space used to retain elephants on the city campus, which i feel needs to strengthen its involvement in a viable, long term sense with forest type species whilst werribee expands its grasslands focus.
to this end, an expanded asian elephant exhibit, refurbished gorilla exhibit and bew primate and carnivore exhibits.
personally i feel the zoos victoria are losing momentum because they are constantly changing direction. these zoos need a clear vision which clearly outlines their commitment to each and every species and a well executed plan to follow through with these. spending millions upon millions on TOTE only to backflip years later and talk about relocating elephants when dozens of other species are living in underwhelming exhibits seems silly, particularly when, as we have seen in the case of elephants recently that space is not the only criteria for succesful breeding. what is clear is that MZ will need space for growing babies, but this could still be accomplished in the city by utilising the space currently used for african ungulates.
personally i totally dig the idea of zoos themed to match their local surroundings. thus i'm glad we have 3 separate zoos in melbourne.
do people in wyoming really need to know about giraffes anymore than people in singapore need to know about polar bears?
of course not. they might WANT to see polar bears in singapore. but the conservation of such animals is of little relevance to them and certainly the bears would be happier elsewhere. singaporeans should worry about orangutans and let alaskans should worry about polar bears.
i argue zoos based on their local ecology, and using similar ecologies from exotic places to foster increased interest, are not only more fun to visit, they are more educational, focused on their own local conservation initiatives and thus more likely to facilitate real change and local conservation outcomes.
do people in wyoming really need to know about giraffes anymore than people in singapore need to know about polar bears?
of course not. they might WANT to see polar bears in singapore. but the conservation of such animals is of little relevance to them and certainly the bears would be happier elsewhere. singaporeans should worry about orangutans and let alaskans should worry about polar bears.
i argue zoos based on their local ecology, and using similar ecologies from exotic places to foster increased interest, are not only more fun to visit, they are more educational, focused on their own local conservation initiatives and thus more likely to facilitate real change and local conservation outcomes.