Chinese animal markets

Pygathrix

Pygathrix

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
An interesting set of photos from China. I was particularly shocked by picture 11.

China's live animal markets | Environment | guardian.co.uk

I don't object to the consumption of animals if it is done humanely and sustainably, but it doesn't look like that here. Before anyone says so, I know the situation in all other countries is not perfect either, but the conservation implications in China seem much greater with a wide range of wild animals being consumed.
 
yes, I'm particularly shocked by some ways my mum describes traditional ways of preparing meals. ( being of chinese discent myself)
I agree with you there about consuming animals. but in places exotic animals have been kept in tiny cages for days on end until needed. Sometimes when a particular dish is ordered they only chop off a particular part and leave the animal alive so the product can be kept " fresh"
 
That's why I get so irritated with animal rights people who waste their time complaining about zoos.
Why don't they try to do something about REAL cruelty like this?
 
Just Nr. 15? Take Nr.7: an Impressed Tortoise (Manouria impressa)!!!

Animal rights people usually rail against those markets, but unlike targeting western zoos they don't get that much attention in the media for that and thus rather focus on the zoos...

But is the Western pet trade any better? Do you know how many millions of animals die each year in European or American private households due to improper care?
 
I agree with you that the treatment of reptiles and invertebrates shown in these images is disgusting but unfortunately I have seen pictures like this many times before. I only highlighted the one with the cats in sacks as I've never seen anything like that before, and I wasn't aware that cats were eaten in any numbers.

I think the Western pet trade probably is better, although of course there are many examples of abuse. Overall it appears to be better regulated, and I think has less impact on wild/endangered species.
 
Pygathrix said:
I think the Western pet trade probably is better, although of course there are many examples of abuse. Overall it appears to be better regulated, and I think has less impact on wild/endangered species.
Click to expand...

It has more rules and restrictions on the paper, but not enough skilled and qualified people to make sure that these rules are truly obeyed. And who cares (and controls) if Madam X. slowly tortures her Greek tortoise to death due to bad husbandry, or little Timmy flushes his goldfish down the toilet because they are no longer interesting? Hardly anyone, if only the local exotic pet clinic when the animal is brought there by the owner in a "weak moment"-but that's usually too late for the animal...
The demand for exotic pets in the West is significant, to say the least; several species are still hunted in their native habitat on a regular basis (think of tropical fish for the aquarium trade) just to satisfy the demands of Western markets.

And that's not the only thing of the Western pet trade that impacts wild/endangered animals in a negative way: think of problematic neozoa, originating from illegally abandoned exotic pets - like Red-Eared sliders, Burmese pythons, Snapping Turtles...
 
Picture 10 of the Civet. What I found interesting was that people pay more for coffeebeans that the civet craps because it is more flavoursome. Hadn't heard of that before.

:p

Hix
 
is it actually a civet as labelled? It looks more like a ferret-badger to me.

In case anyone missed it, there's a video that goes with the pictures (its on the link as well). The quick clip of the shark in the restaurant tank (near the end of the video) is pretty sad
 
Sun Wukong said:
It has more rules and restrictions on the paper, but not enough skilled and qualified people to make sure that these rules are truly obeyed. And who cares (and controls) if Madam X. slowly tortures her Greek tortoise to death due to bad husbandry, or little Timmy flushes his goldfish down the toilet because they are no longer interesting? Hardly anyone, if only the local exotic pet clinic when the animal is brought there by the owner in a "weak moment"-but that's usually too late for the animal...
The demand for exotic pets in the West is significant, to say the least; several species are still hunted in their native habitat on a regular basis (think of tropical fish for the aquarium trade) just to satisfy the demands of Western markets.

And that's not the only thing of the Western pet trade that impacts wild/endangered animals in a negative way: think of problematic neozoa, originating from illegally abandoned exotic pets - like Red-Eared sliders, Burmese pythons, Snapping Turtles...
Click to expand...

Sun Wukong,

I respect your opinion and your comments on the exotic pet trade are generally correct. But the subject matter here is the Chinese animal markets. Their impact on wild populations of various fyla and zoological family groups is equally damaging, the what I would refer to as the Eastern Asian bushmeat trade (snakes, turtles, civets et cetera). In addition to that the Chinese medicine parts trade (tigers, rhinos, bears) and the carving industries (elephants and rhinos) and we are looking at the world's major consumer of wild animals or their products. This has not only made significant inroads into the uplisting of quite a few SE Asian wildlife species or families, but is also damaging wildlife abundance across the Indian subcontinent, the southern north Americas, southern Africa, Madagascar and the Congo basin.

Now, where I do not agree with the alarmist media hyping of the Chinese animal markets as solely responsible for the above listed endangered species, it is however a MAJOR contributing factor to their disappearance and/or level of threat listing. What P.R. China and Taiwan and some IndoChinese and SE Asian countries are doing at home is detrimental to wildlife populations worldwide (considering SE Asia holds close on 2,4 billion people of more or less Chinese descent). Whereas at home, the P.R. China has introduced tough legislation on native wildlife (e.g. the death penalty for poaching of giant pandas), their inappropriate and relenting behaviour and legislation on exotic wildlife leaves much to be desired. If we are to save major parts of the complete spectrum of plants and animals our Earth currently holds, we will have to address all these detrimental and - in my view - irresponsible Chinese consumptive patterns.

So, let us stay on topic here ..., but please let us also investigate how we would more likely achieve our objectives of stopping the negative effects of Chinese wildlife consumption patterns and closing down all the legal loopholes and the international wildlife trade to P.R. China, SE Asian range states and any international wild animal markets dependent upon Chinese consumption patterns. Not one to shout with the crowd, I would hope we can invest more in the TRAFFIC network and ameliorative diplomatic and media action by WWF/IUCN network towards P.R. China and SE Asia.

You can pm me if you so wish ...

Cheers,

K.B.
 
@Kifaru Bwana: Believe me, I do not underestimate the severe impact of the Chinese (or rather, Asian) animal markets on nature. My hint reg. Western pet industries should only serve as a reminder that the West isn't too innocent in this regard either; in fact, both are pretty often intervined.
 
In my first post I did anticipate comments re other countries being no better :rolleyes:

Regarding civet coffee, I have seen it for sale in department stores in the UK for about £25 for a small packet of around 100g. I wouldn't be averse to trying it on the grounds of taste, but I'm not paying that much for it, and I would have to be sure that the animals were not being maltreated (which I'm not).
 
In my Swedish morning paper today, there happens to be a short news footage about rats being a part of Asian cuisine. It may or may not interest you and the video probably will not be up and running for a very long time, but just in case anyone is interested I will post the link. According to the video Cambodia exports 35 tons of rat meat to Vietnam per day, at 1 US dollar per kilo. As can be seen in the footage, the animals are manhandled the same way as the animals in the pictures from the Chinese animal markets.

Råttor på export - Webb-tv - Sydsvenskan - Nyheter dygnet runt
 
Sun Wukong said:
@Kifaru Bwana: Believe me, I do not underestimate the severe impact of the Chinese (or rather, Asian) animal markets on nature. My hint reg. Western pet industries should only serve as a reminder that the West isn't too innocent in this regard either; in fact, both are pretty often intervined.
Click to expand...


Sun Wukong,

I agree - as a reptile enthusiast - that much is at fault with the international legal animal trade too. It pains me to know my favourite reptilians the Uromastyx lizards are imported in the 10,000's in much adverse physical conditions closely linked to the unsustainable capture practices. When entering the importing nation quite a few have already died and those that have survived are weakened by natural parasitic loads brought on by stress factors of too close confinement.

At point of export nor point of import is there any authority even capable of checking whether the animal trade adheres to internationally binding animal transport or veterinary guidelines. They just flick through the paperwork and let the shipments pass through. However, international IATA guidelines on animal transport are never observed, nor are the animals in good condition on transport, nor is the transfer timely, nor are the animal water and feed regulations observed and too much climatic extremes interfering with the live cargo. In this environment, deaths due to confinement are to be expected and occur in their 1,000's. Yet no authority intervenes on behalf of the live cargo and confronts both those involved in the unsustainable capture, the middle men involved in their export and transport mode and the importing agencies - whose eyes are usually on the profit margin rather than individual animal welfare - are only in it to earn a quick dollar.

The Uromastyx for that matter are the unsuspecting victims .... When EVER prosecuted under law no trader is ever presented the true bill for the damages to wild populations, irregularities in transport, avoidable deaths or injuries and other animal welfare irregularities, irregularities in veterinary and other animal trade paperwork. It is a complete and utter nightmarish joke and an absolute scandal to that .....!!!!! :mad:

Oh and lest we forget ..... I feel that only those aligned to zoos and/or a reptile enthusiasts societies and their members interested in their captive-breeding and conservation should be allowed to maintain Uromastyx under a Ministry of Environment and Wildlife special permit system regulated and overseen by a joint Committee of zoo and other wildlife conservation experts. Any infringements are punishable by law and confer a substantial penalty in funds and prison terms on those not observing these rules.

So, punish the traders who are involved in the Uromastyx killing fields at EURO 1,00,000 per every infringement. Only, that will work and confers on the traders a responsibility to be sustainable and not damage wild populations or the environment.

K.B.
 
So, punish the traders who are involved in the Uromastyx killing fields at EURO 1,00,000 per every infringement. Only, that will work and confers on the traders a responsibility to be sustainable and not damage wild populations or the environment.

K.B.[/QUOTE]

Why would you condone the removal of wild populations? QUOTE "sustainable and not damage wild populations or the environment" IS this possible?

Only when there is no demand will supply stop!!!

When you punish a trader, another will apear. This is the fact.
 
zooman said:
So, punish the traders who are involved in the Uromastyx killing fields at EURO 1,00,000 per every infringement. Only, that will work and confers on the traders a responsibility to be sustainable and not damage wild populations or the environment.

K.B.
Click to expand...

Why would you condone the removal of wild populations? QUOTE "sustainable and not damage wild populations or the environment" IS this possible?

Only when there is no demand will supply stop!!!

When you punish a trader, another will apear. This is the fact.[/QUOTE]

Sustainable and regulated removal is possible, only if we make a real effort. It is far more financially viable when trade is fully regulated, it puts the immediate gains into the hands of the local population and the wild animals and wild plants they are harvesting and improves the conservation prospects of the taxa traded (as the locals then have a real interest in preserving the wild populations - as opposed to indiscriminate removal at lowest possible price and financial gain - with the gain in the middlemen and the end traders in the importing market nations. Examples of sustainable removal are the regulated Lepidoptera farms in Malaysia, PNG, Costa Rica et al where wild populations provide source populations and these are then farmed and the pupae sold on to a conservation minded market in butterfly farms outside range states. Similar with mega vertebrates - in particular in SADC-Southern African countries with rhinos, giraffe et al.

It can be done ..., but like with FSC sustainable trade it should be regulated by international institutions like IUCN/WWF and TRAFFIC and national conservation bodies and local NGO's, rather than direct govt.
 
The danerous encounters episode on Saturday was about Giant Salamanders. brady Barr went to China to look for the world's largest amphibian but the only ones that could be foudn were already dead ready to be eaten! :(
 
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