Cincinnati Zoo Gorilla shot

sooty mangabey said:
Do you know that the accident was the "fault" of the parents? It's very easy to respond with understandable emotion, but the facts of the incident need to be established before the lynch mob is set on the boy, or his parents, or even the zoo.
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Some people certainly think that it is the fault of the parents for not keeping a steady grasp and a close eye on their kid to trigger the zoos response team to shoot a popular animal dead just because it was a 21st century Jambo incident that took a turn for the "worse".
Critics blame parents, Cincinnati Zoo for gorilla's death - CNN.com

Besides, did people really think that the gorilla was going to kill the kid because he dragged the kid? If the silverback wanted to kill the kid, he would have just ended it there.
 
sooty mangabey said:
the lynch mob is set on the boy, or his parents, or even the zoo.
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'Lynch mob'? Please don't put into others' mouth things they did not say.

The law in Western countries says that parents are responsible for small child's safety and eventual damage caused by it. That is why court should get involved by default.

I can understand that the zoo over-reacted, putting child's safety much before gorilla's. It looks like the gorilla could momentarily kill the boy without wanting to, for example knocking child's head against the ground. But there is indeed an added dimension of animal suffering.
 
sooty mangabey said:
Do you know that the accident was the "fault" of the parents? It's very easy to respond with understandable emotion, but the facts of the incident need to be established before the lynch mob is set on the boy, or his parents, or even the zoo.
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Parents have the obligation to take care and be responsible of their children. If a 4 year old kid managed to fall into the enclosure, is because his parent´s weren´t given him the proper attention. So yes, is their fault, on the same that way would be their fault if instead to fall on a zoo enclosure, the kid would have tried to cross a road and had been knocked by a car, or had eaten a venemous mushroom during a walk on the forest.

Apart of that, every time I go to a zoo, I end totally pissed off of parents allowing (or even helping) their children to behave on the worst ways possible. I have seen parents helping their children to jump fences to get closer to all kind of animals, holding them so they could reach monkey´s cages and feed them, encouraging them to touch animals... I´m really surprised there are so few "accidents" in zoos considering what I see.
 
Merintia said:
Parents have the obligation to take care and be responsible of their children. If a 4 year old kid managed to fall into the enclosure, is because his parent´s weren´t given him the proper attention. So yes, is their fault, on the same that way would be their fault if instead to fall on a zoo enclosure, the kid would have tried to cross a road and had been knocked by a car, or had eaten a venemous mushroom during a walk on the forest.
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I'm guessing you don't have any children of your own. You seem to suggest that whenever an accident occurs, it is the parents' "fault". I do not know of a single parent who has not had a near miss: a child who has been grabbed just as they are about to walk across the road; an infant stopped from doing something dangerous at the very last minute. And, unfortunately, I know of a number of occasions on which accidents have occurred.

Sadly, however "responsibly" parents may act, accidents can and do happen.

In this tragic incident, nobody knows whether the child snuck off while the parents were momentarily distracted, or whether they were openly encouraging him to flout the rules.

However, the online lynch mob has made its verdict, and is calling down all manner of opprobrium on the parents and the boy (the response in this forum is measured and thoughtful compared to what is being said elsewhere).
 
Loxodonta Cobra said:
Besides, did people really think that the gorilla was going to kill the kid because he dragged the kid? If the silverback wanted to kill the kid, he would have just ended it there.
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The BBC news here in the UK carried the unedited version of the video, showing Harambe the gorilla running through the water dragging the boy, almost as if he's displaying. You can't say what he would have done with him as the time wore on. Lost interest and moved away- or maybe hurled him at the wall. You just can't tell and that's why the zoo acted as they did.
 
@sooty mangabey: Well said (or rather written). As a father of two little girls I really know what you mean. You can't observe/control your kids all the time. But of course that doesn't mean, you are automatically out of any responsibilty when accidents happen.
On the other side, it seems unfair/weird to accuse the zoo, when this exhibit has worked since 1978 without any accident.
Maybe it was a chain of unfortunate circumstances. So I (also) think: Let's wait for further investigations before we start judging.

By the way: As a parent, you normaly feel responsible for every accident your kid is involved and got hurt even when you aren't in justice eyes.
 
SamMetz first posted this in the zoos thread.

Someone started a petition to hold visitors accountable for their actions while visiting zoos. - "Harambe's Law, so there are legal consequences when an endgered animal is harmed or killed due to the negligence of visitors. If this law is enacted, it will not only protect the animals, but will hold individuals accountable for actions resulting in harm or death of an animal."

https://www.change.org/p/denise-dri...the-gorilla-killed-in-cincinnati#delivered-to

There is also another petition going that would make the parents responsible for the death of Harambe.

https://www.change.org/p/cincinnati-zoo-justice-for-harambe
 
All I can say is I really hope the parents can get some media support (that isn't necessarily meaning the media on their side but at least someone to talk to the media for them using the correct language).

It's an insane storm at present; though if its handled right it should blow over pretty quick; at least for the majority of people. We can already see information from official sources isn't getting through (eg info about why they didn't tranquillize) and that results in arguments that build on themselves - by the end of which people come to all kinds of crazy conclusions.
 
sooty mangabey said:
You seem to suggest that whenever an accident occurs, it is the parents' "fault". I do not know of a single parent who has not had a near miss: a child who has been grabbed just as they are about to walk across the road; an infant stopped from doing something dangerous at the very last minute. And, unfortunately, I know of a number of occasions on which accidents have occurred.

Sadly, however "responsibly" parents may act, accidents can and do happen.
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Yes, I suggest that. Accidents occurs, but that doesn´t mean is not the parents fault. Is like I´m driving, I got distracted, and I run a stop sign, provoking a crash. Would that be an accident? Yes. Would that be my fault? Yes too. Should I be fined for what I caused? Of course. And is the same for the irresponsible parents at zoos. And also, there are accidents and "accidents". Considering the tons of not only irresponsabilities, but totally uncivilized and stupid behaviours I see at the zoos, and with no way to see what really happened, I´m sorry, but I´m much more predisposed to blame the parents than to feel empathy for them.

Just an example: http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt201/Erbath/a40ebbfd-d205-4b7a-a1fa-c143fc18594b_zps8b89a74a.jpg I took that picture a pair of years ago at Madrid zoo. The parents took the child over the fence. Later on, set his hand free and the kid walked to just the edge of the trench, while his parents took pictures and laugh. The giraffe just walked away, but imagine if he had fallen and had been crushed by the giraffe, or gored by the gnus. Then we would have had another "accident".
 
Merintia said:
Considering the tons of not only irresponsabilities, but totally uncivilized and stupid behaviours I see at the zoos, and with no way to see what really happened, I´m sorry, but I´m much more predisposed to blame the parents than to feel empathy for them.
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This is part of the problem.

This situation isn't being judged by some on what happened; but by societies problems as a whole. As a result many are getting their wardrums out on general social problems that they see in society and this family are now the target of all that frustration and anger.

That I think is where we have to draw a line and take a step back.
 
The zoos should eliminate/prevent such possibillities of falling human in the enclosure, by appropriate securing the enclosures perimetar fence with no chance of any falling/unauthorised entry. Thus thing like this (killing of gorilla) will not happen at all.

Solutions include: high laminated glass, mesh with apropriate height, and many other solutions.
 
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Nikola Chavkosk said:
The zoos should eliminate/prevent such possibillities of falling human in the enclosure, by appropriate securing the enclosures perimetar fence with no chance of any falling/unauthorised entry. Thus thing like this (killing of gorilla) will not happen at all.

Solutions include: high laminated glass, mesh with apropriate height, and many other solutions.
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I dunno, if a person is making an active effort to get into the exhibit, I imagine it would be kind of hard to design something that would always stop them.
 
I agree with those who have criticized the internet trolling about this incident.
As to the zoo: this design has worked for almost 40 years. Even the most apparently visitor-excluding designs have been overcome by visitors determined to get in. If we are to have zoos and see animals then there will always be a chance of such an incident.
As to the family, the mother appears to have been overwhelmed with the children. If she is to blame then society is to blame. Accidents do happen and they can be awful. This crazy after-the-fact criticism seems the public's way of trying to deny that to live is dangerous.
Nothing good will come of any of this.
 
The sad thing about this whole incident: for the next few days, everyone, including the local back seat driving experts, is going to yap how this could have happened, how they in their infinite wisdom would have prevented this if in charge while the gorilla huggers create virtual memorials and have bitter battles full of misanthropy and weltschmerz with animal right activists and religious rednecks. After that, the very same Captain Hindsights and self-proclaimed mahatmas will forget about the whole thing until the next incident happens so that they can once again prate. And guess what-it will happen again. Not in the same form in the same constellation, but it will. People + animals = trouble. In the meantime, media and lawyers are having a field day.
gal_cairo_protest14.jpg - NY Daily News
 
Everybody agrees that zoos have a real problem with some visitors behaving dangerously. Publicizing and following such incidents is one of few ways to avoid them happening again.
 
The San Francisco Zoo's big cat exhibits successfully contained the resident cats for decades. Then someone hopped over the guest railing and went to the edge of the moat antagonizing a tiger until it attacked. San Francisco was forced to redesign the guest side of the exhibits with large glass viewing windows. So now instead of an attractive open view, the exhibits looks like a fortress. Designed more to keep guests out, than the big cats in. I hope this doesn't happen in Cincinnati. I have visited this gorilla exhibit and always thought it was an attractive well landscaped exhibit with a nice open view. It would be a shame to redesign just to protect the animals from the guests.
 
Nisha said:
Mother speaks out
Mum of boy who fell into gorilla zoo enclosure blasts critics saying 'accidents happen' - Mirror Online
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I don't think this article really gives any more information about why the incident happened.

It's a fairly slippery, 'modernspeak' criticism, but the statement from the mother is very tone-deaf. Quotes like "I am thankful that the right people were in the right place today" are going to get her crucified on social media. It doesn't appear that she understands the potential trouble she's in and the forces that are aligned against her.

I think it's pretty horrendous that the petitions are trying to involve Child Protection. Seems like a fairly transparent attempt to punish the parents.
 
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