Paignton Zoo Crocodile House

Does anyone yet know the sex ratio in the Cuban crocs? ISIS is not a big help here (1.0.2)? Why have they not sexed their crocs or have they (and why is it then not corrected in ISIS)? :confused: Plan to go and ask ..... perhaps (if you girls and boys do not come up with a valid response)!

I suppose they are the ONLY species Paigton really has set their eyes on breeding???

I'll try to find out for you on one of my visits. When they planned the official opening by Nigel Marvin, they were going to have a few guided tours, but that was all cancelled when the opening was delayed. It would have been the ideal time to ask questions.
 
Not really. There's a glass wall, about 4 foot high, and you look over it into "the pit". That's the only glass in the snake exhibit.
 
I've been to Crocodile Swamp again and found a student to question. The Nile crocs are a male and female. There is only one Cuban Croc there at the moment but it is going to be joined by 2 females. I asked if it was a male, but she thought it was a female too. If I find out anything more definite, jelle, I'll let you know.
 
I've put 3 more photos in the Gallery to try and give a better impression of the exhibit.
 
Jelle, I heard from a keeper that the Cuban croc on show is a male and the two currently offshow are female. They will be joining him.
The two Nile crocs are separated by a sluice gate which can be opened if they want them to be together.
 
I visited Paignton today, for the first time for several years. The zoo was very busy as it's August and there was a long queue for the crocodiles - perhaps as they are the feature of the zoo's advertising this year. The queue was the length of the ramp up to house at about 1.30 pm and even longer at 4 pm.
My impression of the house was mixed. The crocs looked well, 2 big Niles on the left as you enter with a Cuban on the right; then past the snakes, another Cuban and the salty.
My main criticism is that the path/walkway through the house is too narrow at this busy time particularly where there are interactive things for kids on one side and animals on the other. I thought the snake bits were tacky and didn't really show the snakes off well: the rock pythons basically have a wall and the other pythons have a sort of ghost train without a locomotive - speaking as a teacher, I found the 'educational' messages were really facile and looked like an afterthought. Likewise a Victoria regia water lily, with Malawi cichlids in the pool is not really relevant to any of the crocodiles they keep. If they had just had the crocs, they could have saved money by having a building with a lower roof and given more space to us poor humans and to the crocs as I think the crocs could use more land space (particularly if they ever try to nest). If they had to add snakes, why not the anacondas from the reptile house, which I think could show themselves well in an semi-aquatic display.

Alan
 
...Likewise a Victoria regia water lily, with Malawi cichlids in the pool is not really relevant to any of the crocodiles they keep. If they had just had the crocs, they could have saved money by having a building with a lower roof and given more space to us poor humans and to the crocs as I think the crocs could use more land space (particularly if they ever try to nest). If they had to add snakes, why not the anacondas from the reptile house, which I think could show themselves well in an semi-aquatic display.

Really annoys me when a collection throws in a tank of Malawi cichlids without any thought to habitat or connection to the rest of the exhibit. There are plenty of South or Central American cichlids which would better fit a general riverine theme and complement the giant waterlilys.

I have seen anacondas in a proper underwater display and they do look really good. I can only guess that they are difficult to manage on a daily basis, let alone hiding/stalking in a large pool.
 
For those of you interested in zoo buildings, this is from Paignton's website:

Paignton Zoo Environmental Park, which is holding its first Green Solutions Festival between Tuesday 28th and Thursday 30th October, has found its own green solution to keeping crocodiles in tropical luxury.

Crocodile Swamp is home to three species of crocodiles as well as turtles and giant snakes. The water in the pools is maintained at 25C, whilst the air temperature is kept at a minimum of 22C. But the Zoo has worked hard to make the spacious 500 square metre glasshouse as environmentally efficient as possible.

Paignton Zoo Clerk of Works Adi Board, who supervised the project, said: “The exhibit makes maximum use of natural light and passive solar gain, employs materials such as high efficiency polycarbonate cladding and thermal screens to reduce heat loss, and solid walls to absorb and retain heat.”

Crocodile Swamp is heated by renewable energy, using a wood fuel biomass boiler to meet 80% of the heating requirements. Curator of Plants and Gardens Kevin Frediani said: “Although the equipment costs more than conventional oil or gas boilers, as renewable energy technology it qualifies for a grant from the Low Carbon Buildings Programme, a government scheme to support the installation of renewable energy technologies. More and more wood fuel systems are being used as an alternative to conventional fuel systems.

“The boiler uses wood chips or pellets as fuel, burning between 50 and 70 tonnes annually. The Zoo hopes to use its own chipped waste timber and also local forestry thinnings – this way we buy local and help to support the local economy.”

The boiler can hold 100 cubic metres of woodchips. A small amount of ash is produced as waste - this is mixed with green waste and sent for composting.

Kevin added: “The running costs are less than half that for an oil or gas boiler and we’ve reduced our environmental impact as a result of using a renewable source of fuel. Compared to an oil-fired boiler, we save over 74 tonnes of CO2 each year – that’s over 740 tonnes saved over the next ten years, a significant contribution towards reducing Paignton Zoo’s environmental footprint.”

Crocodile Swamp cost £1.5 million. The project has been part-financed by a grant from the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF). The Zoo is a registered charity.
 
Cuban Crocs

From Paignton's website:

Zoo gets to grips with croc blood tests 29/07/2009

Taking a blood sample can be a tricky business at the best of times – but try doing it on a ferocious wild crocodile!

Vets and reptile keepers at Paignton Zoo Environmental Park recently had to take blood samples from their Cuban crocodiles. Vets are used to dealing with difficult patients, but a Cuban crocodile has up to 68 razor sharp teeth, can be more than 2 metres in length, weighs around 130 kilos (20 stone) and has a hugely powerful tail. It is fast and agile in water and on land.

The gathered experts included reptile keepers Rod Keen, Andy Meek, Sam Lomax and Paul Jaques and Paignton Zoo vets Ghislaine Sayers and Sarah Hewitt. Also in attendance was Adrian Fowler, a vet with specialist crocodilian experience who works for Endangered Madagascar.

Curator of Lower Vertebrates and Invertebrates Mike Bungard explained: “We wanted to take blood samples to confirm whether we have pure Cuban crocs or hybrids. Many Cuban crocodiles are hybrid to some degree because animals have been mixed in the past.

“Our Cubans have come to us from various different places, some without any records or history. This is a good chance to find out exactly where we are before getting involved in conservation work and possibly breeding.”

Mike described how the tricky operation was performed: “Catching up a crocodile requires experience, confidence and skill. You make a plan before you go in and you stick to it. The lead person uses a loop to hold the head and the eyes are covered to help keep the animal calm and relaxed - then everyone moves in very quickly and restrains the animal. The final person tapes the mouth shut. It takes three people to hold them down. You can’t use tranquilisers on crocodiles near water as they could drown.

“We have a well trained and very capable team. To keep the length of time staff are handling the animals to a minimum, it is best to have someone experienced on hand – we have people on our team who have taken blood samples from crocs before, but we called in Adrian Fowler because you can never have too much expertise when you are dealing with crocodiles!”
Paignton Zoo vet Ghislaine Sayers, who was one of the people taking samples, said: “The best place to get the needle in through all that armour is under the tail, where the scales meet and the skin is softer.”

The samples will go off to Texas State University in the USA, which has a database on Cuban crocodiles that brings together information of benefit to everyone concerned with the conservation of the species. The samples have been frozen and will be sent in a special container, suspended in cell lysis fluid, which preserves the DNA.

The Cuban crocodile is one of the most threatened New World crocodilian species.
The wild population is estimated to be between 3,000 and 6,000. The species has powerful legs, up to 68 teeth and the frightening ability to leap out of the water using its strong tail to take prey out of overhanging trees. It is a CITES species and is listed as endangered on the IUCN Red List.
 
Also from the website - on a few dates through the autumn/winter, you can pay to watch the crocodiles being fed, and have a guided tour through Crocodile Swamp. But don't all rush at once - it costs £49 per person :eek:
 
From Paignton's website:

Zoo gets to grips with croc blood tests 29/07/2009

Curator of Lower Vertebrates and Invertebrates Mike Bungard explained: “We wanted to take blood samples to confirm whether we have pure Cuban crocs or hybrids. Many Cuban crocodiles are hybrid to some degree because animals have been mixed in the past.

“Our Cubans have come to us from various different places, some without any records or history. This is a good chance to find out exactly where we are before getting involved in conservation work and possibly breeding.”
P.S. If I lived a lot nearer, I'd definitely pay £49 to spend the evening in the Crocodile House. I'd have to eat beans on toast for a fortnight, but it would be worth it.

Hopefully this will solve exactly what the "Cuban" next to the Saltie is. I still think it's a Cuban/ American hybrid. It's head is too long and pointed for a Cuban and is very pale when compared to the body, and it looks to have a slight bump in front of the eyes. All features of an American Crocodile.
Do we know how long till they publish the results ?
 
Bwassa; said:
P.S. If I lived a lot nearer, I'd definitely pay £49 to spend the evening in the Crocodile House. I'd have to eat beans on toast for a fortnight, but it would be worth it.
Do we know how long till they publish the results ?

On reflection, while I wouldn't spend £49 to see the crocs being fed, I would think it money well spent for a tete a tete with the orangutans!
Regarding the results, I don't know any more than what is stated in the press release.
 
Disappointing

I love Paignton zoo, but am very disappointed with the crocodile house, they spent far too much money when other areas of the zoo also need to be refurbished etc.
 
I love Paignton zoo, but am very disappointed with the crocodile house, they spent far too much money when other areas of the zoo also need to be refurbished etc.

Like the lean/to in the Gorilla enclosure. It was Pertinax's favourite place he would bring down his piece of carboard and sit underneath there for hours watching hundreds of people strolling by saying ' I wonder where the Gorilla's are? no sign of them' and there he was behind the middle up right hiding but the regular members always knew where he was.
I remember the day the lean/to collapsed at one end and yes there was Pertinax still sitting underneath oblivious to any danger he might have been in.:eek: After finding a keeper they called him in. And then the lean/to was destroyed but to this day has never been reconstructed, unlike the two in the Lion enclosure.:(
 
Pertinax

I remember him sitting there, he did love his lean to. It wouldn't cost that much to replace, maybe we could all email the zoo asking for a new one for him :)
 
I love Paignton zoo, but am very disappointed with the crocodile house, they spent far too much money when other areas of the zoo also need to be refurbished etc.

The only thing that is disappointing is that zoo visitors only care for the mega vertebrates and seem to want to discard the rest. If we are to take our role in conservation breeding any seriously ex situ, we do not just go for edutainment, but also conservation and research.

I for one and more than happy that finally something is done about the sorry state of some reptile families in Europe (say hi to those non-descript amphibians too please). Most zoos only care to show salties (I know ..., so does Paignton alas) and Nilies (sigh, what a ..., if only they were from Madagascar and thus threatened .... there is really ab no conservation reason why zoos should still be compelled to just show the Nile croc. So many other crocodilians are fascinating and interesting to look into and enjoy the moment. Besides, we some Cubans, Siamese and Morelet's, we might just be able to set up some real conservation breeding programmes for crocs (incidentally save for the Cuban whose main threat is hybridisation with American crocs, the others are threatened due to over-exploitation of wild stocks). :(

It is not just you who is to blame for this sorry state, European zoos themselves are quite reluctant to be serious about this issue.

Suffice .... I AM HAPPY AS CAN BE (lol)! :D
 
I am also happy

I am also happy that the crocs got out of the pens they were kept in.
I didn't mean that the zoo should not spend money on reptiles.
Only that it was alot of money and i should have thought it could have been done for a little less and then other areas could have also benefited from the funds.
 
Back
Top