Berlin Zoo Crocodiles at Berlin Zoo

Bwassa

Bwassa

Well-Known Member
Before we visited Berlin last September, I noticed on the website, in the Aquarium gallery section, that they had photos of Cuban, Nile and Orinoco crocs plus a false gavial! I couldn't wait to visit, particularly to see the Orinoco croc! I was really gutted when we visited that all they had in the crocodile hall was a Nile croc, :( albeit a VERY large nile croc. Does anybody know if they actually had the species shown in the gallery, and when they disappeared from the zoo?
 
According to the german site zootierliste (zoo animal listings) the Orinoco crocodile(s?) was shown at the Berlin Zoo/Aquarium, but the dates are missing. Perhaps a german zoo enthousiast knows more...
 
3 years ago they had niloticus, novaguineau, rhombifer and a 3rd species that seems to have slipped my mind. no tomistoma though (false gharial)

so they had quite a variety of species. but I have no idea on the actual situation, I'm visiting the zoo next month, so I'll surely keep an eye open.
 
When I visited Berlin Zoo for the first time in 2000, I still saw 6 species in the crocodile hall: False gharial, Spectacled caiman, Cuban, New Guinea, Nile and "Orinoco" crocodile. In 1987 15 species were kept, but afterwards the collection was fortunately reduced as a consequence of lethal aggressions. During my visit in 2000 I saw one specimen with a large bite (I think it was the caiman).
Several crocodile specialists agree that the "Orinoco crocodile" recently kept there was just an American crocodile (okay, still a rare species in Europe). The only places where I saw real Orinoco crocodiles were several zoos in the southern U.S.
The False gharial went to Tierpark Berlin in 2003, the New Guinea crocodile to a private holder in 2006 (after being exhibited at Tierpark for a few months), the Orinoco/American and the Cuban crocodile probably died. At the moment only Nile crocodile and Spectacled Caiman are left (apart from the Dwarf caiman which is kept in a normal terrarium).
Tierpark Berlin still keeps a considerable collection, including a large False gharial, Chinese alligators and breeding Dwarf crocodiles. The largest collection in Germany is meanwhile kept at the aquarium in Zella-Mehlis, where 10 species can be found, including Siamese, Morelet's and Mugger crocodile.
 
ok so it was the american orinoco croc, I couldn't remember.
either way it's good they don't keep the mass anymore. the exhibit isn't really fit for it.

allthough it's a shame they only got the "standard" nile croc now.
 
I still have a picture of the American crocodile (labelled as Orinoco) from August 2005, so it probably died in early 2006.

Hopefully Berlin Zoo will use its crocodile hall for conservation purposes after the death of the Nile crocodile. I would like the idea of keeping pairs of both highly endangered Asian Crocodylus species in the two enclosures of this hall.
 
I wish for many reptile collections to get serious about crocs. (West) Berlin Zoo is a sad example of a zoo that used to have a mish-mash of rare crocs, but never any plans to breed. All rare crocs have moved on or died and now we are left to look at a glorious NILE CROCODILE!

Please transfer and bring in Cubans or Siamese crocs or gharials from India! Now, I will go and write to the EAZA croc expert from Germany to see how things are moving ... ;)
 
I just heard about C.novaeguineae being now on display at Berlin Aquarium.
A nice species, sure, but I would love seeing zoos being more concentrated on endangered and critically endangered species. I totally agree with Kifaru Bwana in this case.
 
And again I say: the future of crocs doesn't lie in zoos but in farms.
zoos have poor breeding history, most exhibits (even recent ones) are not fit for breeding purposes, ...

the only ones that did regularly breed are almost all on stop because they can't place the animals anywhere.

don't get me wrong: It's good to see breeding efforts and zoos that switch to endangered species. Besides there's nothing wrong with an ex-situ population. But crocs have proven fairly easy to re-integrate in the wild and several farms already have commercial breeding for meat and leather as well as breeding endangered species for conservational purpose.
 
@forumbully: Agreed - but unfortunately some endangered crocodilian species does not generate financial benefit for farms. Tomistoma is one good example: The skin is nearly useless, the meat does not get eaten even by the dayaks in Borneo, Tomistoma males need more than 20 years to get mature....
The Samutprakarn Crocodile Farm in Thailand and its related institutions ( some off public ) is keeping around 900 Tomistoma and not able to sell or export them because of CITES regulations. They are not an official Tomistoma breeding farm as long as the dont breed F2-animals. Just count: They started breeding in 1999 and will need another 10-15 years for getting the export permission. Its just crazy.
 
funny you should mention them.

recently some 8 tomistoma have been imported into germany (I believe they came from Thailand) it is german legislation that dictates the F2 idea, not CITES or international law, apparently, F1 is still wildcaught according to german officials.

And even so, they can still be imported as long as documents mention "wildcaught" instead of "captive bred". Again, this is german legislation, any other country in europe (and problably the world) would have considered them captive bred.

either way: several farms (and I believe Samutprakarn is one of them) breed crocs for commercial purpose (in asia mostly porosus, the salty) and have smaller breeding groups of endangered species for education and conservation purposes. Another nice example is madras in India that breeds palustris (mugger) by the hundreds and has a small breeding population of gharials.
 
No, the Leipzig Tomistoma came from Malaysia and are F2.

The regulations about the consideration as breeding farm are fixed in Cites.

Samutprakarn and Madras Crocodile Bank do have a totally different conception: While Samutprakarn is one pure commercial operation, MCBT is a non-profit organisation and the breeding of large numbers of muggers started in the 80´s, when it was hoped to use them as a head start for coming commercial operations in India and for reinroduction purposes. Both is not possible: India does not allow commercial use of wildlife , especially croc farms, and reintroduction is not possible because of the current lack of suitable habitats. Subsequently, the breeding of muggers in Madras has been totally stopped and thousands of eggs get destroyed every year: Its also not allowed to use them as valuable food for the hungry and poor human population....
 
We still have a long way towards sustainable usage principle or sustainable breeding on commercial farms vis a vis release/reintroduction of a portion of the sustainable breeding back into the wild (as in head-start). :(
 
crocman said:
No, the Leipzig Tomistoma came from Malaysia and are F2.
Click to expand...

Malayasia is possible. I know of 3 enquiries before they got these, but F2 is not what I heard, don't know what your source for that is. And CITES regulation on what is a breeding farm is totally different to what is Captive bred vs wild caught.

on the origin and purpose of both farms, no argument there.
on the realism of some laws, well, let's hope for "the wind of change" in the future.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top