Crocodilians

Here are a few species I hope to see in the coming months
Black Caiman
Cuban Crocodile
Chinese Alligator
Morelet's Crocodile
African Slender Snout Crocodile
 
Just out of interest @bongorob, whose taxonomy are you following that lists Alligatoridae as a subfamily of Crocodylidae? I've never seen that before.

Here's my (relatively sparse) list:
Crocodylus acutus
Crocodylus intermedius
Crocodylus johnsoni
Crocodylus mindorensis - first seen at Chester
Crocodylus moreletii- first seen at Knowsley Safari Park
Crocodylus niloticus - first seen wild in South Africa
Crocodylus novaeguineae
Crocodylus palustris
Crocodylus porosus
Crocodylus rhombifer
Crocodylus siamensis
Crocodylus suchus
Mecistops cataphractus
Osteolaemus tetraspis- first seen in a private collection
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Gavialis gangeticus
Tomistoma schlegelii - first seen at Chester
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Alligator mississippiensis - first seen at the Welsh Mountain Zoo
Alligator sinensis
Caiman crocodilus -first seen at Chester
Caiman latirostris
Caiman yacare - first seen at Blackpool
Melanosuchus niger
Paleosuchus palpebrosus - first seen in a private collection
Paleosuchus trigonatus - first seen in a private collection
 
Swampy I can't remember,it's probably an old classification. Wikipedia has Alligtorinae as a subfamily, but that does not prove anything.
 
bongorob said:
Wikipedia has Alligtorinae as a subfamily, but that does not prove anything.
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Ah, but that's as a subfamily of Alligatoridae, separating Alligator from Paleosuchus, Caiman & Melanosuchus, which are placed in the Caimaninae.

Sorry to get all pedantic, I just thought it was an interesting alternate taxonomy :P
 
Tim May said:
On my visit there in 2009, St, Augustine Alligator Farm claimed to have every recognised species of crocodilian.

Given the various ongoing changes in crocodile taxonomy, I expect that collection is now missing a few species but it is certainly the most comprehensive set crocodilians that I've ever seen.
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And I'm sorry to see that they seem to have settled on "West African crocodile" for that new species and not cooler names such as "sacred crocodile" or "desert crocodile."
 
I haven't kept a detailed list but of recent viewings, the Toledo Zoo has a seventeen foot salt water crocodile. When I lived in Chicago some years back the Lincoln Park Zoo had an Orinoco crocodile, and I don't recall seeing those elsewhere. Detroit currently has Siamese crocs and had a pair of African dwarf crocodiles, but no longer. We currently have Siamese crocs and Chinese alligators.
 
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...and not cooler names such as... "desert crocodile"
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I hope that name eventually will be forgotten since a much larger part of its range is in forest than desert. Can anyone imagine visiting this place and being in the strange situation of having to call out: "Look, a desert crocodile!"

Speaking of taxonomy: It appears the slender-snouted crocodiles in North American zoos are of the Western form (species). Does anyone know about the slender-snouted crocodiles in Europe? Would be interesting to see a Central, but for conservation it would be preferable if they all are Western, too.
 
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temp said:
Does anyone know about the slender-snouted crocodiles in Europe? Would be interesting to see a Central, but for conservation it would be preferable if they all are Western, too.
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It hasn't been fully confirmed as yet, but there is some suspicion that the European population partially comprises hybrid stock.
 
A very interesting and informative read. But why the discrepancy between ZIMS and zootierliste? do not all collections contribute to ZIMS?
 
A few years ago I toured Phoenix Herpetological Society in Scottsdale, Arizona (USA). They have all but two or three of the world's crocodilian species. I imagine they are second only to Saint Augstine in USA collections. I did not record which species I saw or which two or three they are missing (and their website does not include a species list).
 
Arizona Docent said:
A few years ago I toured Phoenix Herpetological Society in Scottsdale, Arizona (USA). They have all but two or three of the world's crocodilian species. I imagine they are second only to Saint Augstine in USA collections.
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That seems likely. In Europe Krokodille Zoo in Denmark has all the species if using traditional taxonomy (i.e., before recognition of West African croc, and splits of dwarf and slender-snouted crocs), but they typically have a few species off display so you won't see everything on a visit. Next is Krokozoo in the Czech Republic that has all but one if using traditional taxonomy. The missing at Krokozoo is Orinoco; the only Orinocos outside the Americas are at Krokodille Zoo and with the difficult situation in Venezuela (where quite a number are at breeding farms) it seems the US is now the main place for it.
 
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I guess I'm a bit late to hop on the bandwagon, but here's my list:

Crocodylus acutus - first seen at Cincinnati Zoo (2010)
Crocodylus intermedius - first seen at Newport Aquarium (date unknown)
Crocodylus johnsoni - First seen at San Diego Zoo (2015)
Crocodylus mindorensis - First seen at Gladys Porter Zoo (2016)
Crocodylus moreletii - First seen at Dallas World Aquarium (2014)
Crocodylus niloticus - First seen at Disney's Animal Kingdom (date unknown)
Crocodylus novaeguineae - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Crocodylus palustris - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Crocodylus porosus - First seen at Fort Worth Zoo (2014)
Crocodylus rhombifer - First seen at Gladys Porter Zoo (2016)
Crocodylus siamensis - First seen at (I forgot which zoo- either Ellen Trout or Animal World and Snake Farm) (2016)
Crocodylus suchus - First (knowingly) seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Mecistops cataphractus - First seen at Kansas City Zoo (date unknown)
Osteolaemus tetraspis - ZFirst seen at Fort Worth Zoo (2014)
----
Gavialis gangeticus - First seen at Cleveland Metroparks Zoo (2010)
Tomistoma schlegelii - First seen at Saint Louis Zoo (date unknown)
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Alligator mississippiensis - No idea when I first saw, but have seen in many zoos as well as wild.
Alligator sinensis - First seen at Saint Louis Zoo (date unknown)
Caiman crocodilus - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Caiman latirostris - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Caiman yacare - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Melanosuchus niger - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)
Paleosuchus palpebrosus - Have seen this one all over
Paleosuchus trigonatus - First seen at St. Augustine (2016)

Dates are only by first memory of each species, but I have seen several before their listed dates. As for splits: have not seen Central African slender-snout, or any dwarf croc other than the one I listed.
 
I was wondering which I had already seen, so here we go:

Crocodylus acutus
Crocodylus intermedius
Crocodylus johnsoni
Crocodylus mindorensis - Zoo Köln
Crocodylus moreletii
Crocodylus niloticus - Beekse Bergen, Blijdorp, Terrazoo Rheinberg...
Crocodylus novaeguineae
Crocodylus palustris
Crocodylus porosus
Crocodylus rhombifer
Crocodylus siamensis
Crocodylus suchus
Mecistops cataphractus - Blijdorp
Osteolaemus tetraspis - Zoo Magdeburg
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Gavialis gangeticus - Zoo Berlin
Tomistoma schlegelii - Artis, Tierpark Berlin
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Alligator mississippiensis - Terrazoo Rheinberg, Tierpark Berlin
Alligator sinensis - Tierpark Berlin
Caiman crocodilus - Zoo Berlin
Caiman latirostris - Burgers' Zoo
Caiman yacare - maybe*
Melanosuchus niger
Paleosuchus palpebrosus - Zie-Zoo, Breda, Ouwehands...
Paleosuchus trigonatus - Rome, Tilburg

* I've probably seen caimans pre 2007 at Burgers', but I don't know for sure, so that doesn't count.

In conclusion, I've seen most species outside the Crocodylus genus, but I've only seen a very few species within that genus.

zoogiraffe said:
Simple it costs money to join ZIMS which they have to pay each year they want to be a member of ZIMS.
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And quite a lot actually. So it's only logical that small zoos with a small budget don't register.
 
I hope more zoos keep rare crocodile species. Looking at Zootierliste, there are several tens of holders of mix Nile crocodiles, spectacled caimans and American alligators. If they could be replaced with endangered forms or at least pure subspecies, zoo could contribute significantly to conservation.

Indian Gharial will likely need captive insurance population forever. Its natural habitat was almost destroyed. There are few stretches of big undeveloped rivers in India left, and wild population cannot grow more than the current few 100s.

I think I already written that one idea to boost captive breeding of crocodiles may be to get individuals for temporary breeding loans to existing big exhibits, and return them once they produce one or few clutches.
 
Here's my list; by taxonomies, and in order of frequency! However, some of the places I saw them no longer have them there; I will write said places in bold.

Crocodiles:
- Nile crocodile: Barcelona, Lisbon and Bronx zoos, Sigean safari park, CRARC, Bioparc Valencia, Faunia and Prague crocodile gallery: 8 zoos
- Dwarf crocodile: Barcelona, Whipsnade and Berlin zoos, Aqualeon safari park, Bioparc Valencia, American Museum of natural history: 6 zoos
- Saltwater crocodile: Barcelona, Singapore and Taronga zoos, Sydney aquarium: 4 zoos
- Johnston's crocodile: Taronga zoo, Prague crocodile gallery, Sydney aquarium: 3 zoos
- Cuban crocodile: Barcelona (off exhibit) and Bronx zoos, Prague crocodile gallery: 3 zoos
- Siamese crocodile: Barcelona zoo and Prague crocodile gallery: 2 zoos
- Morelet's crocodile: Barcelona zoo, Prague crocodile gallery: *2 zoos*
- West African crocodile: Barcelona and Dublin zoos: 2 zoos
Philippine crocodile: London zoo: 1 zoo
- Mugger crocodile: Barcelona zoo: 1 zoo
- Slender-snouted crocodile: American museum of natural history: 1 zoo
- American crocodile: Berlin zoo: 1 zoo
- New Guinea crocodile: Berlin zoo: 1 zoo
- Orinoco crocodile: Yet unseen

Caimans and alligators:
- American alligator: Barcelona, Lisbon, Bronx, Taronga and Auckland zoos, Sigean safari park, Prague crocodile gallery and American Museum of Natural History: 8 zoos
- Cuvier's dwarf caiman: Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon and Central Park zoos and Prague crocodile gallery: 5 zoos
- Spectacled caiman: Barcelona zoo, Barcelona Aquarium, CRARC, Faunia, Prague crocodile gallery: 5 zoos
- Chinese alligator: Barcelona, Rome, Bronx and Hong Kong zoos, Ocean Park Hong Kong; 5 zoos
- Schneider's dwarf caiman: Rome zoo and Cosmocaixa: 2 zoos
- Yacare caiman: Barcelona zoo: 1 zoo
- Broad-snouted caiman: Barcelona zoo: 1 zoo
- Black caiman: yet unseen

Gharials:
- Malaysian gharial: Barcelona, Bronx and Singapore zoos: 3 zoos
- Indian gharial: Prague zoo, Singapore night safari: 2 zoos
 
Here is my list:

Malayan Gharial (St. Louis)
American Alligator (numerous collections)
Chinese Alligator (Milwaukee, St. Louis)
Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (St. Louis, Shedd)
Spectacled Caiman (SEA LIFE Minnesota)
Orinoco Crocodile (Brookfield)
Nile Crocodile (World Aquarium)
African Dwarf Crocodile (Minnesota, Brookfield, Lincoln Park)
 
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