Cryptozoology

[nanoboy]

zoo-keepers should be more reliable witnesses, but not necessarily. They are only human after all. In this case she is a former Parks Victoria ranger and now works at a "zoo" that does not have any big cats anyway, so she's really no more experienced in identifying a panther than any regular zoo-goer. I remember when Orana Park sent out some people to "investigate" a panther sighting in Canterbury (NZ) several years ago, and the "big cat expert" on the search was the head of their maintenance department who had some free time.

In the case of the animal's size, if she at first thought it was a wallaby then I'd say a big domestic/feral cat is far more likely than a panther.

As for the footprints, Chris didn't say (at least in this article) they were the prints of a "black panther", he said a "large cat", which you can take whichever way you like I guess.

It would be interesting if he did set up some camera traps and got shots of a panther though!!

(Just as an aside, if you open the article there's a photo of a black feral/domestic cat labelled as a "mystery large black cat")

That big cat search party in Canterbury sounds like such a Kiwi cliche'. Haha. I couldn't help but laugh.

I totally agree that working at a zoo does not give someone extra credibility - like the doctor who saw Loch Ness (as though being a doctor means that everything you say is fact).

True, Chris did say the prints were that of a big cat, but given the context of the article, one must assume he meant lion/tiger/leopard etc rather than a large domestic cat.

Conclusive evidence of big cats out there would be fascinating! The black cat in the photo in the article further reinforces what I may have said earlier in the thread: how come the people that witness these cryptids always have the crappiest cameras?

Hix, the guy had (maybe still has) his own show, and the zoo is not open to the public, so I am not sure that publicity is a logical motive for fabricating a big cat sighting.

 

[Chlidonias]

interesting article on Tetrapod Zoology about giant feral cats in Australia: Australia’s new feral mega-cats – Tetrapod Zoology

Unfortunately none of the links referring to the Australian cats work any more (including two youtube videos which have been removed by the users).

 

[tschandler71]

Cryptozoology means the study of hidden animals. While Big Foot and Nessie gget the most attention I am more concerned with stuff like the ABC's and other animals in places they "aren't supposed to be"

 

[Hix]

Hix, the guy had (maybe still has) his own show, and the zoo is not open to the public, so I am not sure that publicity is a logical motive for fabricating a big cat sighting.

Sales. Maybe another season. Publicity is good for both.

Or maybe I'm just being cynical. I wonder what Steve thinks?



Hix

 

[nanoboy]

Sales. Maybe another season. Publicity is good for both.

Or maybe I'm just being cynical. I wonder what Steve thinks?



Hix

Hmm.... I don't know.... negative publicity for claiming to see non-existent big cats would probably put a dent in sales and harm his chances of getting another season.

Now if his thermal cameras capture images of a panther, well, his career will really take-off. I will definitely watch the documentary/reality show on them capturing it!

 

[LeeMac13]

For anybody interested their is a radio show on tonight at 8pm GMT talking about cryptozoology at Liverpool Community Radio

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Now these may have been talked about before but I wanted to ask what people thought or if anyone knows anything about the following stories about Big Cats.
1) Surviving Eastern Cougars (Puma Concolor Schorgeri) still living in the Northeastern U.S. and in the Canadian portion of the Appalachian Mountains (if you believe they're/were a seperate subspecies). Now where I live lots of people have reported seeing cougars an occasion in my town! Now, these people know the difference between a lynx, bobcat, domectic cat, and cougar so when I hear these stories describing the same animal and in the same relative area, I believe them. I have never seen one, though, and I don't think there's more then two or three but there was even a incident a few years ago down my road involving a big cat (described as being black in color). I'm doing volunteer work in January where most of the sightings occur so I'll keep you posted but tell me what you think of all this.
2) Black panthers in Australia. The story goes that, in WWII, U.S. naval officers kept black leopard cubs on their ships and when they got too big, they released them where they were- Australia (this story is false as far as I know of. Many sailors kept and released cougars, not black leopards). Now hundreds of people are reporting seeing big Black Leopards in the Australian bush but whenever samples are brought in, they come back as dog leading to people believing in a huge government cover-up (along with the Thylacine cover-up). Now one guy, took evidence captured in the brush from a supposed Black Leopard and mixed it with evidence taken from a leopard in a zoo and sent it in. The results came back as dog!!!!!!!
3) Beast of Exmoor. People, since the 1970's, have been reporting seeing and having their livestock killed by big cats that range in color from cougar tan to leopard black. One women reported having over 100 sheep killed by wounds to the throat in three years by the cats. One man in Devon reported finding a big cat skull on his farm. The skull was of a cougar.
4) Now this last one is the least likely in my opinion. It's the story of the Sudan Tiger (Panthera Tigris Sudanensis). Paleontologist and Zoologist Paules E. P. Deraniyagala visited Africa and reported finding the fur of a tiger in Cairo Bazaar in 1951. The seller told him the animal was shot in Sudan and he declared the animal a new subspecies of tiger. Paules took a picture of the fur and scientists stated that the fur was of a Caspian Tiger (Panthera Tigris Virgata) and was probably smuggled into the country because the animal was so rare at the time.

 

[Chlidonias]

2) Black panthers in Australia. The story goes that, in WWII, U.S. naval officers kept black leopard cubs on their ships and when they got too big, they released them where they were- Australia (this story is false as far as I know of. Many sailors kept and released cougars, not black leopards).

no, "many sailors" did not keep and release pumas into Australia. The story is not true.

 

[nanoboy]

no, "many sailors" did not keep and release pumas into Australia. The story is not true.

American soldiers in a foreign land during war time is a recipe for crazy stuff. Given that records of what Joes did or didn't do would be sketchy, I see no reason to doubt that they may have released at least one cougar (or leopard) into the bush. I can believe that a cougar was sighted for a few years after the war, but without a female, it was just the one. The legend lives on though.

 

[Chlidonias]

American soldiers in a foreign land during war time is a recipe for crazy stuff. Given that records of what Joes did or didn't do would be sketchy, I see no reason to doubt that they may have released at least one cougar (or leopard) into the bush. I can believe that a cougar was sighted for a few years after the war, but without a female, it was just the one. The legend lives on though.

you are a gullible little fellow aren't you. I've heard all sorts of versions of the story. With regards to Americans in WW2 they are either navy or airforce, depending on which version you listen to. Some stories have the pumas being smuggled into Australia in secret compartments in airplanes, some have them brought openly into the country on board ships as mascots. Some even give specific numbers (e.g. along the lines of "five pumas were brought in by airforce personel"). Sometimes the puma(s) are released because they got too big, sometimes when the servicemen returned home; sometimes as adults and sometimes as cubs. There is no consistency.

Taking it back further, there are also the versions where the pumas were brought over by American gold-miners in the mid-19th century -- because as every history buff knows, no gold-miner worth his salt ever went anywhere without a puma!!

Then there are those who believe they aren't pumas or leopards at all, but rather cat-like marsupial predators (similar to, or a species of, Thylacoleo), due to Aboriginal stories of "big cat" like creatures.

 

[nanoboy]

you are a gullible little fellow aren't you. I've heard all sorts of versions of the story. With regards to Americans in WW2 they are either navy or airforce, depending on which version you listen to. Some stories have the pumas being smuggled into Australia in secret compartments in airplanes, some have them brought openly into the country on board ships as mascots. Some even give specific numbers (e.g. along the lines of "five pumas were brought in by airforce personel"). Sometimes the puma(s) are released because they got too big, sometimes when the servicemen returned home; sometimes as adults and sometimes as cubs. There is no consistency.

Taking it back further, there are also the versions where the pumas were brought over by American gold-miners in the mid-19th century -- because as every history buff knows, no gold-miner worth his salt ever went anywhere without a puma!!

Then there are those who believe they aren't pumas or leopards at all, but rather cat-like marsupial predators (similar to, or a species of, Thylacoleo), due to Aboriginal stories of "big cat" like creatures.

As Mulder used to say, I want to believe.

I heard a crazy story of some geezers who released Burmese pythons into the Everglades because the snakes got too big to keep as pets, and now there are regular sightings of pythons. That story sounds too crazy to be true.

I quite like the Aboriginal story. I read somewhere (maybe on this same thread!) about Aboriginal stories of huge lizards in FNQ that were probably Komodo dragons. As I probably said then, myths and legends are grounded in facts.

 

[Cat-Man]

The burmese python is true, there are pictures & videos (I believe it is more than one python) of them eating alligators.
The rumours of big cats in Britain have been going around for years, mainly leopards and cougars (although some lions) from when it was legal to keep them as pets In the 60's. Barely a year goes by without there being some media hype, and a few years (I say a few, maybe 7/8) there was a documentary where they openly say a black cat like animal on the hillside of a sheep paddock, and chose to drive away rather than investigate further, so It could well have been faked.
Could someone tell me about the thylacine cover up?

 

[Pertinax]

Could someone tell me about the thylacine cover up?

There is no actual evidence to prove there is any 'cover-up'. But its a widely held belief in some circles that valid sightings or even concrete evidence of Thylacines are suppressed for various Political reasons, including that if the species was proved to exist, possible land use restrictions including timber extraction etc. would have to be enforced to protect it, which would damage Tasmania's economy.

Someone with better local knowledge could probably elaborate for you.

 

[Cat-Man]

Ah, thankyou very much Pertinax!. I do find it strange how Australia, a country very restrictive of imports/exports of native & unnative fauna, would try & cover up the existance of a species of its own, should the cover up prove to be true!

 

[ThylacineAlive]

no, "many sailors" did not keep and release pumas into Australia. The story is not true.

Well I know it's not true. You were the one who told me they did it with pumas not black panthers.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Then there are those who believe they aren't pumas or leopards at all, but rather cat-like marsupial predators (similar to, or a species of, Thylacoleo), due to Aboriginal stories of "big cat" like creatures.

I have heard this story too. They are called Phantom Cat. They are described as being a leopard (both black and normal), cougar, and/or jaguar and, along with Australia, have been reported in Britain, Irland, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Eastern U.S. (including Connecticut), Hawaii, and Luxembourg. In Kenthurst, Australia, they are called Kenthurst Panthers and here in the Northeast U.S. some called them Appalachian Black Panthers while others, like me, call them Eastern Cougars (or just Mountain Lions).

 

[ThylacineAlive]

As Mulder used to say, I want to believe.

I heard a crazy story of some geezers who released Burmese pythons into the Everglades because the snakes got too big to keep as pets, and now there are regular sightings of pythons. That story sounds too crazy to be true.

I quite like the Aboriginal story. I read somewhere (maybe on this same thread!) about Aboriginal stories of huge lizards in FNQ that were probably Komodo dragons. As I probably said then, myths and legends are grounded in facts.

I like to believe as well (just look at my name).
I wish the story with the Burmese Pythons was false. They are a serious and highly dangerous problem and they have begun spreading far farther into the U.S. then Florida and Global Warming is helping them move North. People are spending everyday of their lives fighting these invasive species along with others like cobras, giant rats (occasionaly Capybaras), some monkeys (from time to time), big cats, and all the other animals people thought would dye off if they released them into the wild (some fish like Giant Snakehead and Red-Bellied Piranha). Just in the lake by my house someone introduced Zebra Mussels (Dreissena Polymorpha).
The giant lizards are supposed to be surviving Megalania. Poeple still report seeing them in deep in national forests, too. I believe the Aboriginal people drove them to extinction about 40,000 years.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

Could someone tell me about the thylacine cover up?

Well, Cat Man, you've asked the right person.
The story goes that (and you've probably heard this) Thylacines have survived after their extinction date on September 7, 1936. I personally believe this true given that we have rediscovered animals in much less rural areas that were once considered Extinct. The whole coverup is that the government knows that the Thylacine is still alive but doesn't want to inform the public (why? I have no clue) so they are making sure the species stays hidden in the dense forests and brush of Tasmania and Southern Australia. Also, people believe the government have been stopping people from discovering them and reporting good evidence. Mabye that's why Australian scientists are working to clone the species instead of searching for a species that almost a whole island (Tasmania) believes still lives (this includes park rangers, scientists, officers, and very high up people, a few of which work with the government).

Pretty much everything Pertinax said is true. Also, the forests and land that a Thylacine is living would certainly become a torrist attraction and destroy much of the land. This is also why people say the U.S. government is hidding the exsistence of Bigfoot (I think that they have their hands tied dealing with Aliens to much to be worrying about Sasquatch)

I believe the Thylacine story is real (the conspiracy is another thing). I think this Cryptid story has much more reality and sense to it then others like Bigfoot (although scientific possible). I read somewhere (I believe here on ZooChat) that they discovered scat and bone samples from Thylacines that were dated to the 1960's. THE THYLACINE LIVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Pertinax]

The story goes that (and you've probably heard this) Thylacines have survived after their extinction date on September 7, 1936.

I read somewhere (I believe here on ZooChat) that they discovered scat and bone samples from Thylacines that were dated to the 1960's.

Some Thylacines were almost certainly living well after 1936. Reliable reports from old 'bushmen' who were familiar with the animal when it was still more numerous indicate it was still around in the 1940's and maybe later still, though no tangible evidence was ever produced after 1936. The evidence from DNA'd scats dated from the 1960's seems to indicate it may have been extant later still. The question remains, are they still alive fifty years or so later?

 

[ThylacineAlive]

The question remains, are they still alive fifty years or so later?

I believe they are 100%. For me, there are too many sightings by reliable people and the sightings are all in places where a speces that escaped extinction (or is avoiding people like the Kouprey or Cross River Gorilla) would be and as long as the sightings continue, there is hope in my mind. The real question is- will they be left after we finish with our logging in Tasmania...?