Death of an Emperor- Exmoor Red Deer Stag

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Pertinax

Well-Known Member
15+ year member
A lot about this unfortunate shooting on today's news. It seems to me they made a mistake by publicising his presence a few weeks ago, and so in drawing attention to this 'trophy' stag someone is bound to come along quickly who wants to shoot him.

Hopefully he will have fathered a number of other younger stags in the past, so potentially another will develop similarly as this sort of inheritance tends to be repeated in subsequent generations. They describe his exceptional development as due to good feeding and mild climate but of course all Exmoor's Red Deer experience that.
 
I saw this on the news this morning, at the risk of starting a debate I really dont see what pleasure anyone could get from doing this.
The ones that are then photographed with an inane grin on their stupid faces over the dead body of the poor creature that they just killed make me sick.
 
I've got to agree. It's a tragedy that we can't even appreciate such a beautiful animal unless it's dead, showing we crave some sick dominance over nature that spoils it's value in favour of other's greed. Cos, let's face it, that's the only reason he was killed; no need to eat him when we have food on constant supply, wasn't part of a managed cull, just a trophy to fill the void in someone's ego. Horrid, how can we appreciate such magnificent rarities when they come if all we're gonna do is kill it? :mad:
 
Unfortunatley, many people enjoy asserting their dominance and as Zambar put it so well - filling a void in their ego - in this way.

Just google images for mountain nyala. We can't see any in zoos but clearly there are plenty trophies up for grabs.
 
Red deer don't reach their peak until about 8 yo, and one article I read on this said he had started to decline, so was possibly 10. He would therefore have heaps of fawns from previous years. His genes were passed on and removing him would allow another new stag to take the top position, and keep genetic diversity in the population.

I admire and like seeing mounted animals, even though I don't have any of my own. I don't think previous posters understand why people have animals mounted, and are being led by the ignorance and prejudice of the journalist who wrote the article in what he thinks the reasons are. There are many reasons, and everyone has there own, and I won't attack their right to do it.
 
I'm not lead by prejudice of journalists, I have my own views and values.

I appreciate the need for management of natural resources and populations of deer and understand the economic importance of this to rural communities. I'm not a bunny hugger...

But it's true, I don't understand hunting for pleasure and I don't get the psychology behind mounted trophies.

Something else I cannot understand is why someone has to kill this specific animal which had a certain iconic status.
 
Until this deer was shot, no-one outside of the area had heard of it. It is only since the media interest that people have become aware of the size of this deer.

He was 12 years old, so not in decline yet, according to various reports he was still in very good health. After being the biggest beast I am sure his genes have been passed on just like he got his from his father. Another large deer who was killed some years ago.
 
We cull 350,000 deer a year in the UK, and even then they are eating all the young trees before they can grow and we are losing forest. It's sad that such an iconic deer was chosen, but I don't think it's quite the tragedy the media are making it out to be.
 
Now there is speculation he may still be alive, and that another similar big stag was the one that was shot. Possibly the news was released as a 'hoax' to protect his whereabouts. But people claiming to be 'in the know' are maintaining the shot animal was definately the stag known as 'Emperor.'

Interestingly the two main photos of a stag credited to the photographer(Richard Austin) who originally broke this story appear to be of two different stags(compare number and spacing of points on the antlers) or possibly the same male in different years...(but I think not)
 
We cull 350,000 deer a year in the UK, and even then they are eating all the young trees before they can grow and we are losing forest. It's sad that such an iconic deer was chosen, but I don't think it's quite the tragedy the media are making it out to be.
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I agree. The whole point of the article is to use the pretense of this stag being killed to mount an argument against deer hunting.

Now there is speculation he may still be alive, and that another similar big stag was the one that was shot. Possibly the news was released as a 'hoax' to protect his whereabouts. But people claiming to be 'in the know' are maintaining the shot animal was definately the stag known as 'Emperor.'
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As the genetics would have been passed on and he would likely have sons at least 8 years old, if he is 12, there may be several stage with very similar antlers. Unless they can compare the antlers of the deer shot to this years photos of his they will never know. There may also be several stags in the area they have been considering the same deer.

Interestingly the two main photos of a stag credited to the photographer(Richard Austin) who originally broke this story appear to be of two different stags(compare number and spacing of points on the antlers) or possibly the same male in different years...(but I think not)
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I don't think those photos are of the same deer either.
 
Monty said:
As the genetics would have been passed on and he would likely have sons at least 8 years old, if he is 12, there may be several stage with very similar antlers. Unless they can compare the antlers of the deer shot to this years photos of his they will never know. There may also be several stags in the area they have been considering the same deer.


I don't think those photos are of the same deer either.
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Absolutely. Its a bit like 'I'm Spartacus' A number of the big stags on Exmoor will show similar development although obviously one or two, like this one(or two?) become exceptional. Apparently what is thought to be this stag's father, another exceptional stag, spared even by the Hunt, was shot under identical circumstances twelve years ago.

If the Emperor really is dead and it was before his time (though it seems that's debatable) it is a pity but my guess is another 'young emperor' will be along soon.

The two photos definately (IMO) aren't of the same stag- the one roaring has tiny 'spillers' next to the brow tines, and three points on the lower beam of one antler, and with more points 'on top'- the other(single photo) stag has no spillers and only two points each side on the lower beams and less on top.
 
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I think a good point has been made and I get the impression that overall there's more interest in killing than in helping animals.:mad::(
 
Goretex said:
I think a good point has been made and I get the impression that overall there's more interest in killing than in helping animals.:mad::(
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Do you have any idea how much damage deer can do to forests etc?

Given the limited space, all animals - I include humans - need to be managed correctly.
 
Monty said:
Red deer don't reach their peak until about 8 yo, and one article I read on this said he had started to decline, so was possibly 10. He would therefore have heaps of fawns from previous years. His genes were passed on and removing him would allow another new stag to take the top position, and keep genetic diversity in the population.

I admire and like seeing mounted animals, even though I don't have any of my own. I don't think previous posters understand why people have animals mounted, and are being led by the ignorance and prejudice of the journalist who wrote the article in what he thinks the reasons are. There are many reasons, and everyone has there own, and I won't attack their right to do it.
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So you enjoy an animal being shot and stuffed to hang on someone's wall? That mocks the animal in my view. No, I'm swayed by Journalist and I'm not ignorant. I don't like stuff cats and other pets for the same reason. If you love the animal let it die with at least a small amount of dignity, don't make it a joke or a charicature by stuffing it and putting it on a wall. But hey. That's my view.
 
I appreciate the beauty of an animal weather alive or dead. A properly taxidermed animal should look like it did when alive. All animals die and the choice of how it dies and whether it is preserved or destroyed is not yours to make. There are people who prefer animals to die slowly and naturally, and many of these people prefer not to eat meat. Just because they like something does not mean they can stop others doing what they like. I like to eat meat and prefer to eat something I have killed and prepared myself, what I do with an animals I have legally killed is none of your business.

Since you have attacked me and seem to want an argument are you a vegetarian who wants to force you lifestyle choices on others, (I respect anyones right to not eat meat if they like, as long as they respect my right to eat meat) or are you a hypocritical meat eater who is prepared to eat meat as long as it comes covered in plastic from the supermarket and you did not see it alive.
 
The problem with wolves is that they are not selective with what numbers they kill and difficult to control what and where they kill. They do not always provide the expected results. Packs move to where they have the best hunting and that could be farmland. Humans can be used to provide selective and controlled population reductions, if you have enough hunters prepared to do the job.

Would those complaining about the death of this particular stag be happier if he was attacked by wolves and had his hamstrings ripped out so he could not run before being mauled to death and eaten by the wolves.
 
Satan said:
Do you have any idea how much damage deer can do to forests etc?

Given the limited space, all animals - I include humans - need to be managed correctly.
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And is it the deers fault that there is a lack of forests in the country now?
 
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chizlit said:
And is it the deers fault that there is a lack of forests in the country now?
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Is that even relevant?

If we just let them eat everything because it is not their fault, we will very quickly have no forest left at all. Is that what you want?
 
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