Dartmoor Zoo Death of Dartmoor's Wolves

Zooreviewsuk

Zooreviewsuk

Well-Known Member
Sadly the Zoo's remaining pair of Timber Wolves had to be euthanized today.

The pair were nearly 13 and had been showing signs of ill health since the 3rd wolf died at the backend of last year. The female wolf was gravely ill so a decision was made to put her to sleep, and as the male was elderly and wouldn't cope on his own, was already showing signs of ill health and was too old to be reintroduced to a new pack, the decision was taken to put him to sleep also.

This frees up an exhibit along the top part of the park and with some shuffling it may enable Benjamin to start building the Amur Leopard on / and off show exhibits he wished to build where the Iberian Wolves currently are and along the back. If Carlos now moves on, the remaining 2 Iberian Wolves could move into the old Timber Wolves exhibit, which would enable them to start work on the Amur Leopard exhibits, where one would be for reintroduction, and the other to be on show animals.
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
Sadly the Zoo's remaining pair of Timber Wolves had to be euthanized today.

The pair were nearly 13 and had been showing signs of ill health since the 3rd wolf died at the backend of last year. The female wolf was gravely ill so a decision was made to put her to sleep, and as the male was elderly and wouldn't cope on his own, was already showing signs of ill health and was too old to be reintroduced to a new pack, the decision was taken to put him to sleep also.

This frees up an exhibit along the top part of the park and with some shuffling it may enable Benjamin to start building the Amur Leopard on / and off show exhibits he wished to build where the Iberian Wolves currently are and along the back. If Carlos now moves on, the remaining 2 Iberian Wolves could move into the old Timber Wolves exhibit, which would enable them to start work on the Amur Leopard exhibits, where one would be for reintroduction, and the other to be on show animals.
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I suspect you're merely quoting what's been stated elsewhere, but I do hate use of the phrase 'had to be' re: animals being put down. It sounds like one of the wolves wasn't that ill, making that choice of words particularly questionable. They could have waited to see if he could adapt to life on his own... sounds like the zoo may have plans for the enclosure though so maybe that played a part in the decision too?
 
Sand Cat said:
I suspect you're merely quoting what's been stated elsewhere, but I do hate use of the phrase 'had to be' re: animals being put down. It sounds like one of the wolves wasn't that ill, making that choice of words particularly questionable. They could have waited to see if he could adapt to life on his own... sounds like the zoo may have plans for the enclosure though so maybe that played a part in the decision too?
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Not really. Sadly the end game for larger animals is expensive and 13 years is a very good age. Both were on medication and one was really bad and there was no choice. They had been on the decline since the 3rd Wolf died last year, and given that and the males health declining, and him already being a good age and also on meds, their decision was actually that of a kind one. To see if he adapted on his own, when he was already on the downhill and possibly had a few months left at most would have been far more cruel on the animal. Sometimes what is the toughest decision is the correct decision.
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
Sadly the Zoo's remaining pair of Timber Wolves had to be euthanized today.

The pair were nearly 13 and had been showing signs of ill health since the 3rd wolf died at the backend of last year. The female wolf was gravely ill so a decision was made to put her to sleep, and as the male was elderly and wouldn't cope on his own, was already showing signs of ill health and was too old to be reintroduced to a new pack, the decision was taken to put him to sleep also.

This frees up an exhibit along the top part of the park and with some shuffling it may enable Benjamin to start building the Amur Leopard on / and off show exhibits he wished to build where the Iberian Wolves currently are and along the back. If Carlos now moves on, the remaining 2 Iberian Wolves could move into the old Timber Wolves exhibit, which would enable them to start work on the Amur Leopard exhibits, where one would be for reintroduction, and the other to be on show animals.
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Sadly that makes it sound like a convenient decision rather than a necessary one - but I am sure that is just how it reads rather than how it was intended.

On the whole I would not want to criticise such a decision - it is a tough call. The really sad issue is if you know all the story.

From Combe Martin and back again - these poor wolves have been moved on time and time again - through no fault of their own - they just became pawns in a game of thrones. It has been humankind at it's worst - and it makes me a little ashamed to be one of them.

Still - Dartmoor Zoo can move on to Amur Leopards now without a backward glance at the carnage left behind.
 
Red Fox said:
Sadly that makes it sound like a convenient decision rather than a necessary one - but I am sure that is just how it reads rather than how it was intended.

On the whole I would not want to criticise such a decision - it is a tough call. The really sad issue is if you know all the story.

From Combe Martin and back again - these poor wolves have been moved on time and time again - through no fault of their own - they just became pawns in a game of thrones. It has been humankind at it's worst - and it makes me a little ashamed to be one of them.

Still - Dartmoor Zoo can move on to Amur Leopards now without a backward glance at the carnage left behind.
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I'm really pleased you posted this, it sounds like your feelings are pretty similar to my own.

This is one thing I dislike immensely about the zoo world - the way animals are too often seen as an inconvenience and shunted around because they aren't 'useful' anymore, or worse. I know not everyone does it and most accept it, but I don't like it. I hope that Dartmoor gave those wolves a good life during their twilight months/years.

What is the history of these wolves if I may ask in terms of where they have lived?
 
Sand Cat said:
I'm really pleased you posted this, it sounds like your feelings are pretty similar to my own.

This is one thing I dislike immensely about the zoo world - the way animals are too often seen as an inconvenience and shunted around because they aren't 'useful' anymore, or worse. I know not everyone does it and most accept it, but I don't like it. I hope that Dartmoor gave those wolves a good life during their twilight months/years.

What is the history of these wolves if I may ask in terms of where they have lived?
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I understand what you are saying. I think it is like most things in life - some cases will be genuinely for the best interest of the animal involved - and some wont.

Firstly let me say - the wolves were not shunted around because they were not wanted or useful - they were wanted and loved very much. It has been circumstances more than anything and I do truly believe very simply a people thing. That thing that people do when they take against someone and wont let it go. And as a result the animals were put through upheaval that was not necessary and - if looked at objectively - everyone lost sight of or didn't care about - in their determination to win the argument.

The wolves were not originally part of a zoo collection - they belonged to the Ellis family - Shaun and Kim Ellis. There were two packs and were originally kept at Combe Martin Wildlife Park by Shaun Ellis himself but were moved to a private site - also in Combe Martin - because he wanted to establish his own centre. There were many problems and obstructions over planning and neighbours etc - lots of disputes - but I also would add - lots of support - locally and remotely. In the end Shaun and Kim moved again - I believe this was when the wolves (both packs) came to Dartmoor along with their pack of wolf dogs. They tried again for permission to re-locate the wolves to their home base and I think moved twice again (because they tried and were unable to get the necessary permission to move the wolves) - before they came to be based where they are today.

In the interim a problem developed at Dartmoor Zoo over the housing of the two packs - not essentially with the zoo - but zoo inspectors had become involved and the situation became difficult for both parties. One of the packs was moved back to Combe Martin where they were much loved and much wanted - and I believe - apart from one wolf - are still there today. The other pack stayed at Dartmoor - these are the wolves we are speaking about now.

Their enclosure at Dartmoor was not ideal to begin with and that did attract some criticism but I don't believe that was a lack of care on the part of the Zoo - it was simply financial and logistical. When another enclosure became free - they were moved. Also the encounters and the howl have attracted some criticism in that they were set up simply for financial gain - but I don't hold with that either. These wolves had been reared interacting with visitors - I actually think they enjoyed it and had missed it. It was enrichment for them. (The tug of war Lion is slightly more contentious I feel).

Putting both the remaining wolves to sleep of course will cause comment - when only one was struggling. That is a tough decision - but to be honest - the zoo would not have won that one - whichever way they had gone with it. People will say they did it for convenience rather than for the good of the remaining wolf - only they know that really.

My comment was simply a knee jerk reaction to the enclosure can now be used for the Amur Leopard project - because - if thought about - it is a bit insensitive - does not demonstrate much thought or care. This one is dead - next please. Especially since I know how devastated the Ellis family, the keepers, the volunteers and good old Jo Public were.

Mistakes were made with it all along the way but it could have been brought to a conclusion in a much more empathetic way. It has just re-opened a huge raw wound especially for the Ellis family and there was just no need for it.

Hope that answers your questions - have tried to be fair and balanced with what I know.
 
Thanks Red Fox for the clarification, I now feel I have a much better understanding of the situation and thank you for such a well-written and sensitively worded post.
 
Sand Cat said:
Thanks Red Fox for the clarification, I now feel I have a much better understanding of the situation and thank you for such a well-written and sensitively worded post.
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My pleasure. My greatest wish would have been to see the matter resolved with amicable compromise and all the bad feeling put to bed but sadly that has not happened and our gorgeous wolves have gone.
 
Red Fox said:
I understand what you are saying. I think it is like most things in life - some cases will be genuinely for the best interest of the animal involved - and some wont.

Firstly let me say - the wolves were not shunted around because they were not wanted or useful - they were wanted and loved very much. It has been circumstances more than anything and I do truly believe very simply a people thing. That thing that people do when they take against someone and wont let it go. And as a result the animals were put through upheaval that was not necessary and - if looked at objectively - everyone lost sight of or didn't care about - in their determination to win the argument.

The wolves were not originally part of a zoo collection - they belonged to the Ellis family - Shaun and Kim Ellis. There were two packs and were originally kept at Combe Martin Wildlife Park by Shaun Ellis himself but were moved to a private site - also in Combe Martin - because he wanted to establish his own centre. There were many problems and obstructions over planning and neighbours etc - lots of disputes - but I also would add - lots of support - locally and remotely. In the end Shaun and Kim moved again - I believe this was when the wolves (both packs) came to Dartmoor along with their pack of wolf dogs. They tried again for permission to re-locate the wolves to their home base and I think moved twice again (because they tried and were unable to get the necessary permission to move the wolves) - before they came to be based where they are today.

In the interim a problem developed at Dartmoor Zoo over the housing of the two packs - not essentially with the zoo - but zoo inspectors had become involved and the situation became difficult for both parties. One of the packs was moved back to Combe Martin where they were much loved and much wanted - and I believe - apart from one wolf - are still there today. The other pack stayed at Dartmoor - these are the wolves we are speaking about now.

Their enclosure at Dartmoor was not ideal to begin with and that did attract some criticism but I don't believe that was a lack of care on the part of the Zoo - it was simply financial and logistical. When another enclosure became free - they were moved. Also the encounters and the howl have attracted some criticism in that they were set up simply for financial gain - but I don't hold with that either. These wolves had been reared interacting with visitors - I actually think they enjoyed it and had missed it. It was enrichment for them. (The tug of war Lion is slightly more contentious I feel).

Putting both the remaining wolves to sleep of course will cause comment - when only one was struggling. That is a tough decision - but to be honest - the zoo would not have won that one - whichever way they had gone with it. People will say they did it for convenience rather than for the good of the remaining wolf - only they know that really.

My comment was simply a knee jerk reaction to the enclosure can now be used for the Amur Leopard project - because - if thought about - it is a bit insensitive - does not demonstrate much thought or care. This one is dead - next please. Especially since I know how devastated the Ellis family, the keepers, the volunteers and good old Jo Public were.

Mistakes were made with it all along the way but it could have been brought to a conclusion in a much more empathetic way. It has just re-opened a huge raw wound especially for the Ellis family and there was just no need for it.

Hope that answers your questions - have tried to be fair and balanced with what I know.
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I'm not convinced these were the Ellis' Wolves, Red Fox.

The Timber Wolves were originally privately owned by Roger and Linda, who gave them up to Dartmoor when they couldn't house them. They initially were in the paddock behind where the walkthrough is now, opposite the Lynx exhibit.

They came to Dartmoor in 2014, long after Benjamin had taken over the Zoo and arrived from a private collection.

Roger and Linda only had the Wolves come temporarily to Dartmoor when they had to leave their former site as they were looking for new lodgings. They were part of a pack of 3 and came on their own with no others. The other wolf died last Autumn and they were 8 when they arrived at Dartmoor in 2014.

The remaining two had regressed in health since.

I did drop Sand Cat a PM about the Wolves and reasons why they were PTS and was nothing to do with wanting to get Amurs in, but the animals were in fact showing ill health, but not sure if he saw it.
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
I'm not convinced these were the Ellis' Wolves, Red Fox.

The Timber Wolves were originally privately owned by Roger and Linda, who gave them up to Dartmoor when they couldn't house them. They initially were in the paddock behind where the walkthrough is now, opposite the Lynx exhibit.

They came to Dartmoor in 2014, long after Benjamin had taken over the Zoo and arrived from a private collection.

Roger and Linda only had the Wolves come temporarily to Dartmoor when they had to leave their former site as they were looking for new lodgings. They were part of a pack of 3 and came on their own with no others. The other wolf died last Autumn and they were 8 when they arrived at Dartmoor in 2014.

The remaining two had regressed in health since
I did drop Sand Cat a PM about the Wolves and reasons why they were PTS and was nothing to do with wanting to get Amurs in, but the animals were in fact showing ill health, but not sure if he saw it.
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Your information is quite wrong - Roger and Linda were volunteers with Shaun Ellis and stayed on with the wolves at Dartmoor when the Ellis family left. They are lovely people and continued to care for and go in with the wolves and ran the encounters and howl. It was the Ellis family who signed the wolves over but it was quite acrimonious as they felt they had been left with no option but to do so. It was a very stressful and painful chapter in the story - feelings ran high.

The other pack of wolves was off show - in an outbuilding at the back of the house - these are the wolves now back at Combe Martin - one of which passed away a while after their move back.

It was Nataa who passed away last year at Dartmoor followed this week by Cheyenne and Tejas.

Don't misunderstand - I am not saying the wolves were put to sleep to make way for Amurs - it was your post that read a little insensitively but I am sure you did not mean it that way.

Hope this clarifies things for you.
 
Red Fox said:
Your information is quite wrong - Roger and Linda were volunteers with Shaun Ellis and stayed on with the wolves at Dartmoor when the Ellis family left. They are lovely people and continued to care for and go in with the wolves and ran the encounters and howl. It was the Ellis family who signed the wolves over but it was quite acrimonious as they felt they had been left with no option but to do so. It was a very stressful and painful chapter in the story - feelings ran high.

The other pack of wolves was off show - in an outbuilding at the back of the house - these are the wolves now back at Combe Martin - one of which passed away a while after their move back.

It was Nataa who passed away last year at Dartmoor followed this week by Cheyenne and Tejas.

Don't misunderstand - I am not saying the wolves were put to sleep to make way for Amurs - it was your post that read a little insensitively but I am sure you did not mean it that way.

Hope this clarifies things for you.
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Thanks for that, it was just Dartmoor, always referred to Roger and Linda, and not the Ellis', hence the confusion my end.
The Zoo had felt that both Wolves had gone backwards since the death of the other wolf, so I can personally understand why they didn't want to chance him on his own, especially as his health was on a downward spiral anyway. I suppose it's one of those where you can't keep everyone happy and had they tried him on his own and he was visibly unhappy and regressing, they would have been criticised for not putting him to sleep.
 
Zooreviewsuk said:
Thanks for that, it was just Dartmoor, always referred to Roger and Linda, and not the Ellis', hence the confusion my end.
The Zoo had felt that both Wolves had gone backwards since the death of the other wolf, so I can personally understand why they didn't want to chance him on his own, especially as his health was on a downward spiral anyway. I suppose it's one of those where you can't keep everyone happy and had they tried him on his own and he was visibly unhappy and regressing, they would have been criticised for not putting him to sleep.
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I agree - it was a no win situation - damned if they did - damned if they didn't.

I can understand your confusion over the situation - it all became so acrimonious that it was the professional thing to do not to mention the Ellis family. But to be fair - they had been under constant stress for a prolonged period - and I am sure we have all experienced a moment when you can't take anymore and the explosion comes. It was just regrettable that something could not have been salvaged afterwards and sadly putting to sleep the last two wolves at Dartmoor only seems to have re-ignited the hurt and anger. Possibly it could have been handled differently.
 
Red Fox said:
Thanks. I will store that one for future reference. Everyone is entitled to their view - that is what forums like this are for - so that we may express it - hopefully in good ways.
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Yes of course, but people are not entitled to express their views unchallenged. In this case I thought you were wrong in some sense and I wanted to pick at that a little bit. Which I still want to do incidentally, surely you can think of worse things people have done then transfer wolves between zoo several times? (Which anyway seems not even obviously inherently negative)
 
FunkyGibbon said:
Yes of course, but people are not entitled to express their views unchallenged. In this case I thought you were wrong in some sense and I wanted to pick at that a little bit. Which I still want to do incidentally, surely you can think of worse things people have done then transfer wolves between zoo several times? (Which anyway seems not even obviously inherently negative)
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I think the transfer of the wolves is not the whole issue - you have to know more of the story and the background to form an opinion on whether it has been well handled or not - and whether or not mankind manifested itself as a group of bullies leaving carnage (in personal terms) in its wake

If you consider my view to be exaggerated then take a look at social media such as Kim Ellis' facebook page - you will see there an expression of views. You will not find that on the zoo's facebook page because any negative comments coming in were deleted the minute they hit the screen.

As far as I am concerned I am glad I was given the opportunity to put the whole story (as I know it) in a post on this site. As you can see from some comments - the whole story was not known. I don't believe I have been unfair or unduly critical of anyone therefore don't feel it necessary to be challenged - nor do I feel the need to defend myself.

If out of everything I have written the only words you can challenge is 'humankind at its worse' and 'carnage' I think I did ok.
 
Red Fox said:
Their enclosure at Dartmoor was not ideal to begin with and that did attract some criticism but I don't believe that was a lack of care on the part of the Zoo - it was simply financial and logistical. When another enclosure became free - they were moved.
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Red Fox said:
My comment was simply a knee jerk reaction to the enclosure can now be used for the Amur Leopard project - because - if thought about - it is a bit insensitive - does not demonstrate much thought or care. This one is dead - next please. Especially since I know how devastated the Ellis family, the keepers, the volunteers and good old Jo Public were.
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I guess it depends on your perspective. The wolves being moved to an enclosure that had 'become free' was a positive thing but information / discussion about how the now empty enclosure will be used is not ok?
 
Zia said:
I guess it depends on your perspective. The wolves being moved to an enclosure that had 'become free' was a positive thing but information / discussion about how the now empty enclosure will be used is not ok?
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Again - it's a question of knowledge - the enclosure became free because the two young tigers were moved up to Tiger Rock after the older tigers had passed away. This was not discussed the day the last tiger died - Tiger Rock stood empty for a little while - the zoo mourned their passing - the public left flowers. A little respect for everything and everyone - that doesn't hurt does it? The tigers were held in special regard because they were part of the original line up - Benjamin Mee's original line up. These wolves were once someone else's original story.
 
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