Paignton Zoo Demolition Man demo!

[Pertinax]

.Playing is a different thing as today Demo and Chinta were playing and and Mali was just chilled out.
It was totally different

Fair comment. In that case its likely Gambira's isolation may get worse and they'll have to seperate her more frequently or even permanently. Certainly when she has a baby as it could get injured or killed if they fight.

 

[Gigit]

It was good to see the orangs going outside today. All except poor Gambira who was presumably licking her wounds in her bedroom.
Having spent many hours watching the orangs, I'm pretty convinced that it is actually Chinta who instigates the bad feeling and that she is the one who needs to be isolated. Gambira has always been afraid of her.

 

[kkkp]

Demo and Mali were last seen with their buckets and spades heading for paignton sea front....It was so nice to see them outside even if i only caught a flash of them as they took of in the fresh air...

 

[Gigit]

What an image I'll just pop down to the beach and see if they're still there!

 

[Pertinax]

Having spent many hours watching the orangs, I'm pretty convinced that it is actually Chinta who instigates the bad feeling and that she is the one who needs to be isolated. Gambira has always been afraid of her.

Well, I guess either it will resolve itself or it won't. Having access to the outside enclosure no doubt helps a bit. Also, if they all have babies successfully and look after them, their relationships may alter and the females behave very differently. For example, if Chinta has an infant and is maternal, she's likely to be preocuppied with it and not risk 'engaging' with other females.

You'll have to wait and see......

 

[Gigit]

Fingers crossed and nails bitten! It's a shame she's expected to be the last to give birth, next Spring, and not the first.

 

[Pertinax]

Fingers crossed and nails bitten! It's a shame she's expected to be the last to give birth, next Spring, and not the first.

And I hope they realise that in captivity, where several pregnant apes are together, its been known(occassionally) for one still 'due' to steal the infant of another... at least in gorillas.

 

[Gigit]

From Paignton's website:


Zoo’s triple pregnancy nerves 08/12/2008



One endangered primate at Paignton Zoo is doing his bit to save his species he has got all three females in his group pregnant.

Paignton Zoo primate keepers are nervous fathers three times over, with Bornean orang utans Gambira, Chinta and Mali all expecting over the next few months.

Paignton Zoo Environmental Park Director of Operations and Curator of Mammals Neil Bemment said: “We hope they give birth and rear their youngsters naturally but we have made plans in case some or all of them do not. If any of them are unable to rear their youngsters then they will almost certainly be reared at one of the European ape nurseries – for example, Monkey World in Dorset or Stuttgart Zoo - where they will be in the company of other young apes and not just humans.

Paignton Zoo’s group of Bornean orang-utans is made up of male Demo (aged 10) and females Gambira (11), Chinta (18) and Mali (13). Demo and Mali arrived at Paignton Zoo from Munster Zoo, in Germany, in November 2007. Gambira was born at Paignton Zoo. Chinta was born at London Zoo.

Both Gambira and Chinta are first-time mothers. Mali’s first baby was stillborn.

A recent study revealed the rapid, heavy and ongoing declines suffered by orang-utans: the Sumatran species is estimated at around 6,000 individuals and could be the first great ape species to become extinct.

Bornean orang-utans have suffered similar declines but the population is estimated at

around 50,000. To put this in context, there are fewer Bornean orang-utans in the entire world than there are human beings in Torquay. The population of Torquay is about 62,000.

The Bornean orang utan (Pongo pygmaeus) is threatened by hunting, the pet trade and the destruction of its rainforest habitat. Forest is being destroyed to create palm oil plantations. Given the declining populations, measures such as switching to alternative oil products and maintaining sustainable populations of orangs in zoos are becoming ever more important.

Paignton Zoo and Living Coasts are working to become palm-oil free sites. Paignton Zoo Environmental Park Director of Operations and Curator of Mammals Neil Bemment is the co-chair of the orang-utan European Endangered species Programme, which coordinates the efforts of top European zoos to conserve the species.

 

[Gigit]

And I hope they realise that in captivity, where several pregnant apes are together, its been known(occassionally) for one still 'due' to steal the infant of another... at least in gorillas.

Good grief - whatever next!

 

[Pertinax]

Good grief - whatever next!

Its rare but can happen- if births are due around the same time, a dominant female (still pregnant) decides she's ready for birth/motherhood and steals a subordinate female's baby and won't give it back. A subordinate female wouldn't dare, and where they both/all have their infants it doesn't apply. Not saying it happens in many cases, but a slight chance.....

 

[Gigit]

I guess the stolen infant can survive if the mother-to-be has started lactating. What happens when she gives birth herself?

 

[Pertinax]

I guess the stolen infant can survive if the mother-to-be has started lactating. What happens when she gives birth herself?

This is probably only a zoo situation and rarely, if ever happens in the wild.(Some langurs and Colobus monkeys share their infants but that is normal) I only know of a couple of cases of stealing- in one the infant died before it could be returned to its own mother. The other was at Apenheul quite recently- rather a complicated case where they presumed a pregnant female Gorilla(Mandji) had given birth, whereas she had stolen a younger female's(Kisiwa's) baby when she gave birth at night. A few days later they found a dead baby in the dominant female's nest The dead baby was proved by DNA test to be hers so by deduction the baby she was mothering isn't hers- though she is rearing it. Kisiwa didn't have a baby after that- but she has one now from another pregnancy.
I also know a case where a chimp baby somehow transferred to its FATHER and he carried it around for about 2 days while the mother followed around tried to get it back. He seemed confused and upset as it got hungrier but didn't know what to do or how to give it back. It transferred back again at night- maybe climbing from one parent back to the other.
As I said, it IS very rare and I've never heard of it in Orangutans BUT its a possibility if the births aren't carefully monitored, which I'm sure they will be..

 

[Gigit]

Very interesting. If the keepers didn't know and are reading this, they will now! I'm sure they'll be on top of things.

 

[kkkp]

Thats a joke about quote 'palm oil free sites!'

Since when did vegetables have oil?
Has anyone noticed the very informative notice in the ape house has dissapeared..It was all about the orangs habitat being destroyed for palm oil........It was very interesting

 

[Pertinax]

Very interesting. If the keepers didn't know and are reading this, they will now! I'm sure they'll be on top of things.

I'd be interested to know if there's ever been a case in zoo Orangutans.

I've remembered another Gorilla one though- in the USA not long ago-a female Gorilla had twins which she looked after, but also took the younger infant of her own daughter as well so she was carrying around THREE infants. Not surprisingly the youngest one died....

The problem in these cases is where the female won't give up the stolen baby and has to be drugged to get it away from her, a dangerous procedure of course.

 

[kkkp]

All the Orangs are back together again and Mali was following Chinta around but at least they were leaving Gambira alone....But they still wont open the door for them watch this space.

 

[Pertinax]

But they still wont open the door for them watch this space.

I don't get this... A couple of days ago both you & Gigit saw them outside again, so why not now. Is it weather-related perhaps i.e. they keep them in if its bad? Can't see why they don't have daily access though what with doorflaps etc.

 

[kkkp]

They were in today but no Gambira.....Who are we to reason why?

 

[Gigit]

I made a flying visit this morning - all four orangs together indoors. Poor Gambira on red alert while the others whirled round her. It's a lovely sunny day but we have had an awful lot of rain. I didn't look at the island but it may well be waterlogged. There was no one about to interrogate.

 

[Gigit]

I gather the orangutans are being kept inside because they don't want Mali to give birth outside. Far be it from me to suggest they keep her indoors and allow the others to let off steam outside. It's not pleasant watching Gambira looking over her shoulder all the time.