Edinburgh Zoo Developments at Edinburgh Zoo

Cat-Man said:
Just asking, but if given as a gif, would The Queen be more likely to give the pandas (making it clear, IF they were given as a Gift to the People Of The UK) would the queen be more likely to give them to ZSL London Zoo because it is in the Countries Capital?
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A couple of points:

- it's not just a case of where the Queen wants them to go - they'd have to go to a zoo able and willing to hold them. I'm sure Her Maj wouldn't (and quite probably couldn't) force them on London against their will

- the ZSL doesn't have a 'Royal' in front of its name - the RZSS does! :D
 
It's actually been established and agreed that any pandas would go to Edinburgh. It's all about the presentation of the animals to the UK. No matter what country they are in, pandas are generally considered as the property of the Chinese government in the same way that sun bears belong to Cambodia. Those involved with panda research and conservation want edinburgh to be involved, as it is already, because of the valuable vetinary and genetic research RZSS are keen to be involved in!

Genetic research is something RZSS is getting increasingly involved in along with other vetinary research as well. Scientific research is becoming a large part of Edinburgh's work, including research into sounds made by the chimpanzees depending on the foods put in to the enclosure. Is there a chimpanzee "language"?

So far there are still minor squabbles in Budongo Trail. The vet was in today as well checking out some new minor injuries. Nothing major as yet. Still very much the split, however the dutch girls do mix with the Edinburgh males, much to Ricky's surprise and bemusement!

At the daily feed Claus appears to hold back for some reason. I think the keepers really want something major to kick off and sort out the group heirarchical structure once and for all!

I noticed today that Somnang, one of the sun bears, seems to have an unfortunate tendency to "pace" a tiny area of the indoor hardstand area of the enclosure. Possibly a throwback to being kept as a pet in Cambodia. Once a scatter feed goes in and he's out looking for food both he and his brother Rotana look amazingly healthy and alert. As someone at the zoo described them picture something the size of a very muscular rottweiler with the attitude of a honey badger and the inteeligance of a primate and you're getting there!
 
£2 million per pair per year for Giant Pandas?

Maguari said:
A couple of points:

- the ZSL doesn't have a 'Royal' in front of its name - the RZSS does! :D
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RZSS's Patron is HRH The Princess Royal whereas ZSL's Patron is HM The Queen. :p

If RZSS does eventually obtain a 10 year loan of a pair of Giant Pandas, I'm I correct in thinking that China would charge £2 million per year per pair. Then if any cub/s are born they will have to pay an additional £3 million per cub per year during the loan?

If this is correct, can RZSS afford this? :eek:
 
The money side is the final discussion point and th research wotk could be the thing that helps bring the financial side down. Also, given the popularity of this iconic species and the numbers of visitors they are able to attract the additional money could well come from here in addition to corporate funding. Which major Scottish or UK business wouldn't want to be associated with a species that is the icon of global conservation!
 
Further to Panda's, there were initially 3 zoos interested - the others being Chester and London. I am now led to believe that London are interested but are way behind Edinburgh on building a relationship up with the Chinese, meaning that the Pandas coming to the UK, one condition from the Chinese would be that they are housed at Edinburgh.

I am aware that what I am saying here is possibly best described as a sketchy truth (Im not on the inside, and only those on the inside will know the full truth), but to the best of my knowledge ZSL do want Pandas (who wouldn't) and are pursuing it but are resigned that Edinburgh is 1st in line. Hope that clears things up a bit. (It aint up to the Queen where they go).
 
monkeygambler said:
but to the best of my knowledge ZSL do want Pandas (who wouldn't) and are pursuing it but are resigned that Edinburgh is 1st in line.
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So would ZSL be prepared to build an expensive brand new enclosure or majorly upgrade an existing one for Pandas?- bearing in mind that financial constraints have prevented anymore than a 'facelift' for the Lion/Tiger area at the current time. I can't see them keeping Pandas in an old Sobell enclosure as last time either(that's all part of Gorilla Kingdom now anyway).
 
Simon McGlary said:
I think the keepers really want something major to kick off and sort out the group heirarchical structure once and for all!
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Chimpanzees -Are they living all together but still keeping to their two original groupings, is that what is happening here?
 
monkeygambler said:
Pretty much - but there are a few individuals that are crossing between the 2 groups. Some of the new girls I think.
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One of the females from Holland was swollen on Tuesday and the keeper said she had been 'putting her bottom in everyone's face'.

Alan
 
The fact she was swollen indicates she/they are not on contraceptives, though I don't know if birth control does actually suppress the monthly swellings in Chimps or not, presumably so.
 
Pertinax said:
The fact she was swollen indicates she/they are not on contraceptives, though I don't know if birth control does actually suppress the monthly swellings in Chimps or not, presumably so.
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It does in some but not in others, it seems to be different for different individuals. I know that Lucy is implanted and she often had swellings as if in normal oestrous but didn't become pregnant.
 
Simon McGlary said:
It's actually been established and agreed that any pandas would go to Edinburgh. It's all about the presentation of the animals to the UK. No matter what country they are in, pandas are generally considered as the property of the Chinese government in the same way that sun bears belong to Cambodia. Those involved with panda research and conservation want edinburgh to be involved, as it is already, because of the valuable vetinary and genetic research RZSS are keen to be involved in!
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Not entirely sure that all sun bears "belong" to the Cambodian government. Their natural range encompasses many countries in the Malay Peninsula.
This agreement between the RZSS and the Cambodian government, is from what I can see- correct me if I am wrong, a unique "deal". Perth Zoo acquired sun bears from the "Free the Bears" sanctuary in 2007 with no clear mention of "breeding loans".

Surely a better example would be the lion tamarin species and the Brazilian government?
 
Shoebill said:
Not entirely sure that all sun bears "belong" to the Cambodian government. Their natural range encompasses many countries in the Malay Peninsula.
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True, not ALL Sun Bears belong to the Cambodian Government, but the 1.3 animals at Edinburgh and Sandwich do.
 
cracker said:
It does in some but not in others, it seems to be different for different individuals. I know that Lucy is implanted and she often had swellings as if in normal oestrous but didn't become pregnant.
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Do you know what the plan is regarding breeding(or not) from the group now in its present form?
 
Pertinax said:
Do you know what the plan is regarding breeding(or not) from the group now in its present form?
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I think the plan is to see if any of the pure western chimps will breed. I believe Ricky and Louis in the original Edinburgh group are pure western, but I don't know which of the new chimps are, and if any of the females are then I assume they will not contracept them and see what happens? As far as I know any of the males in the new group that are not pure western have been vasectomised.
 
cracker said:
I believe Ricky and Louis in the original Edinburgh group are pure western, but I don't know which of the new chimps are, and if any of the females are then I assume they will not contracept them and see what happens? As far as I know any of the males in the new group that are not pure western have been vasectomised.
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It was my understanding that all the chimps of the new group are pure Western, but not 100% sure of that.
 
Pertinax said:
It was my understanding that all the chimps of the new group are pure Western, but not 100% sure of that.
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Edinburgh now has 10 chimps of the verus subspecies in the ratio of 6m:4f. The rest of the now enlarged group of 22 are "hybrids" other than one female who is a Central chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes troglodytes).

I hope this helps.
 
Shoebill said:
Edinburgh now has 10 chimps of the verus subspecies in the ratio of 6m:4f.
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Thankyou for that information. Do you know if all the 'verus' individuals are from the new/dutch group? And what the policy will be about any breeding of them?
 
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