Aren't the Ft Worth moats deep and vertical-sided with shallow water at the bottom, similar to DAK and Congo, as opposed to the deep water moats with little or no vertical walls which is the type still often found in Europe? The shallow water acts to discourage the apes from entering the moat, but the real barrier is created by the tall vertical wall on the public side. There is very little danger of drowning in these shallow moats, unlike the real danger of the situations where the water is deep enough to be a true barrier.
Different zoo traditions in Europe and The USA?
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Aren't the Ft Worth moats deep and vertical-sided with shallow water at the bottom, similar to DAK and Congo, as opposed to the deep water moats with little or no vertical walls which is the type still often found in Europe? The shallow water acts to discourage the apes from entering the moat, but the real barrier is created by the tall vertical wall on the public side. There is very little danger of drowning in these shallow moats, unlike the real danger of the situations where the water is deep enough to be a true barrier.
Read again then.
Nope. Moja, being a little one at the time, felt there* but was saved by the keeper who then had to leave through exhibit. Kamba, the old wildborn female just approached him to take the baby off his hands, which was screaming by the way, nothing else happened and the keepr safely left the enclosure.
* it is a small few meters long moat near the gate between outdoor and indoor parts of exhibit; now heavily netted under water just in case.
Yo uare mixing up two incidents:
1) When floods occured, the pavilion was quite new and included antiflood tower as a sanctuary for gorillas sufficient for certain level of floods. However before they rescued gorillas from there (under dramatic circumstances) young male Pong (originally pet of a cheik; resocializing well within the group after some time finally) left the safe place for unknown reasons and was lost. Later the water rised up more and the tower would not be enough anyway but by that time all except Pong were evacuated - more about floods in czech section.
2)As I wrote in the previous post, after renovation of their pavilion and adding of a new male (Richard) first gorilla in Czech Republic was born - female Moja. I dont remember her age when that had happened but she felt into the water moat, looked unconsciousness face down in the water, picked up by keepe jumping into the enclosure, then she waked up and started to scream. Kamba approached from the group (nervous staying together) and everything came back to normal.
Thanks, had a feeling I might be.
Dan
Well-Known Member
WOW! I have not been on-line for a few days so I have a lot of catching up to do, but I am so thrilled by the discussion that this thread of mine has created! I have only glanced through it and I will have to read it slowly and in detail... but a big thanks to everybody who has participated! Lots of very interesting views expressed here!
tigertiger
Well-Known Member
I think that's one of the things that can hinder US zoos: press. The US press machine is much larger in the US than elsewhere. If we have a gorilla escape for example, the media will explain the reason why and admonish it until action is taken, essentially. It doesn't matter if it was sheer luck for an animal.
There's been a local call to press lately over a Columbus Zoo gorilla getting out for a very, very brief period of time. Much of our locale area now has a problem with the exhibit.
tigertiger
Well-Known Member
Another difference from what I have seen is that European zoos tend to be HUGE and as a result don't see much need for immersion exhibits when they can have a giant, giant plot of land for an animal.
I believe you mean the Riverbanks Zoo in South Carolina.
tigertiger
Well-Known Member
I'm nowhere local to South Carolina and know that I mean Columbus as Colo recently had an 'incident.'
Was there an event at SC?
mweb08
Well-Known Member
I think I'm in the middle of this debate. I don't care that much about being immersed into a specific habitat(unless we're talking about an aviary or something like the desert dome in omaha or an indoor jungle), although it's a nice touch. I do very much see the side of the argument that suggests it costs too much money and takes away space and a possibly better exhibit from the animals themselves.
I do however like the exhibit itself to be as natural as possible and certainly would rather not see metal cages. Having a large glass viewing area plus clear(no barrier) viewing in the same exhibit are the best(think SDWAP Lion Camp, or if clear cannot be done, a thin wire/mesh is obviously better than metal bars. Seeing barriers isn't nearly as big of a deal to me as others, but if they can be hidden, that's a plus.
But in a case like Elephant Odyssey, I don't have much of a problem with seeing the barriers or the elephant house, as it would have basically been impossible to do that given how they setup the entire exhibit. And I'll say again, people who are totally bashing that exhibit should at least factor in the rest of the exhibits, which are all at least very good imo.
Sorry for going a little off topic there, but EO has been mentioned here.
Back to gorillas, I would say Howletts exhibit, while not aesthetically pleasing or realistic, is much better for the apes than LA's exhibit, and they're likely more entertaining due to their more realistic behavior.
I do however like the exhibit itself to be as natural as possible and certainly would rather not see metal cages. Having a large glass viewing area plus clear(no barrier) viewing in the same exhibit are the best(think SDWAP Lion Camp, or if clear cannot be done, a thin wire/mesh is obviously better than metal bars. Seeing barriers isn't nearly as big of a deal to me as others, but if they can be hidden, that's a plus.
But in a case like Elephant Odyssey, I don't have much of a problem with seeing the barriers or the elephant house, as it would have basically been impossible to do that given how they setup the entire exhibit. And I'll say again, people who are totally bashing that exhibit should at least factor in the rest of the exhibits, which are all at least very good imo.
Sorry for going a little off topic there, but EO has been mentioned here.
Back to gorillas, I would say Howletts exhibit, while not aesthetically pleasing or realistic, is much better for the apes than LA's exhibit, and they're likely more entertaining due to their more realistic behavior.
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Zooplantman
Well-Known Member
Assuming that there is a difference between US and UK zoos, is it due to values/philosophy differences or maoney/ambition?
The proposed Master Plan for Chester sounds very much to be about turning it into an immersion themed zoo.
Bristol's proposed National Wildlife Conservation Park does as well. To quote their web site:
I have no doubt there are more.
Like it or not, the US approach has come to Europe and will be increasingly evident.
The proposed Master Plan for Chester sounds very much to be about turning it into an immersion themed zoo.
Bristol's proposed National Wildlife Conservation Park does as well. To quote their web site:
National Wildlife Conservation Park - How the Park will look
I have no doubt there are more.
Like it or not, the US approach has come to Europe and will be increasingly evident.
I think it is because zoos simply copied other zoos in the neighborghood without a deeper thought.
Until recently I guess zoo people from Europe saw few zoos in USA and vice versa. I think ZooChat is actually the first place where I can look at pics of many European and American zoos together.
taun
Well-Known Member
Not suite, It still won't be themed as heavily in the US or try and hide barriers (sometimes at huge cost). If you look at the cost of the entire project there is not enough money for it.
Jeep ride thru an enclosure, just a small safari park (Which are quite big in the UK) in a zoo.
Even HoA at Chester even thou it may sound an immersion exhibit I doubt very much they will hide the barriers or try and fool people into thinking there in the Congo.
I don't see how this stands up.
Tuan is right, I have seen the plans of the National Wildlife Conservation Centre and as he says even though it will be theamed it wont be that heavy quite alot of them seem to be large patches of woodland with glass viewing huts and moats etc, And the price of the whole project there would not be ebough money for the big immersion type exhibits.
I agree with the Chester issue too
I agree with the Chester issue too
Sakura
Active Member
I have just been catching up on the new development at Bristol Zoo. Looking at the web site it looks amazing and where it is safe to do so I much prefer natural settings for animals if they are to live in a zoo.
The zoos that do research are of great value and to achieve accurate results it seems to me that the animals need to be as close to nature as possible.
Is Bristol zoo self supporting helped by a foundation or is it like many North American Zoos and partly funded by the city they are in?
Happy Canada Day.
The zoos that do research are of great value and to achieve accurate results it seems to me that the animals need to be as close to nature as possible.
Is Bristol zoo self supporting helped by a foundation or is it like many North American Zoos and partly funded by the city they are in?
Happy Canada Day.