Do Drill have a future in the USA?

I told a lot of the keepers and docents about this move today and they are really interested in why they would move them there. I still believe all the US drills should go to Europe, even Atlanta. Atlanta hasn't had a birth in a while and most of their drills are related. They need to give it up and let them breed in Europe!!
 
Yes, it is very bizarre, especially given the commitment of Columbus to send their drills to Europe. Two males and no female won't be of much use to any breeding program, although depending on demographics in Europe there may not be any family units for them to join up with.
 
Ungulate said:
Yes, it is very bizarre, especially given the commitment of Columbus to send their drills to Europe. Two males and no female won't be of much use to any breeding program, although depending on demographics in Europe there may not be any family units for them to join up with.
Click to expand...

I would not worry too much about the ability to integrate into family units. The drill programme in EAZA/EEP has been expanding quite substantially these past few years (4 new zoos joining). Another zoo was due to start keeping the species in 2007 (which by now will have been effected).

Besides we still have 2 zoos in need of unrelated females (Sofia and Wuppertal) and I suppose the SSP drills being unrelated the need to tie these bloodlines into the EEP programme. A note was made by the species coordinator for the 2006 season that ties with the SSP need to be strenghtened. This has now borne its first fruit.

What is the total SSP drill population looking at in terms of reproductive capacity and output in the last 5 years (since some of you suggesting disbanding the programme and relocating all drills to the EEP)? :confused:

For easy reference purposes I put the SSP population down (for you guys and girls to comment on):

Atlanta 1.6
Chicago LP 1.1
Columbus 1.2
Detroit 2.0
San Diego 0.1

Tell us the news!

Cheers,

Jelle
 
For Columbus, both females are able to breed and have been there for eight years and no successful breedings have ever occured.

San Diego's lone female I think is too old to breed, and obviously unable to breed since her male, Loon was euthanized in 03.

I'm going to attempt to get the names, ages, and places of birth for the drills at San Diego and Lincoln Park. If someone could get specifics for Atlanta and Detroit that would be great!
 
ColumbusZoo001 said:
I I still believe all the US drills should go to Europe, even Atlanta. Atlanta hasn't had a birth in a while and most of their drills are related. They need to give it up and let them breed in Europe!!
Click to expand...

It may be relevant here- I think the breeding pair at Atlanta came originally from the two most successful European groups(Hanover & stuttgart) so their several offspring at Atlanta are effectively from these two groups too. So sending them back to Europe wouldn't help increase the genepool much, if at all. However it might give the non-breeding offspring of that Atlanta pair a better chance to breed.
 
jelle said:
Besides we still have 2 zoos in need of unrelated females (Sofia and Wuppertal) and I suppose the SSP drills being unrelated the need to tie these bloodlines into the EEP programme.
Jelle- note however the background of Atlanta drills- breeding pair are originally from Hanover & Stuttgart! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
It says they are going to be kept in an exhibit that also contains Mandrills. So they are obviously not planning a bigger group. They can hybridise but presumably precautions have been taken to stop this.
 
It looks increasingly that the Drill EEP needs to seriously look into the possibility of importing some drills ex Cercopan and provide in situ support for this sanctuary and its concurrent captive-breeding programme.

Any indication that this is already in the works (I know several EU zoos support the sanctuary as it is, allthough not a req by the EEP for joining the coop programme)?

Finally, drills are another species that would benefit from an okapi modelled WAZA global captive management plan.
 
Pertinax said:
It says they are going to be kept in an exhibit that also contains Mandrills. So they are obviously not planning a bigger group. They can hybridise but presumably precautions have been taken to stop this.
Click to expand...

Actually the female Mandrills that Detroit have are planned to be transferred to the new Africa exhibit at the Peoria Zoo in the near future. More than likely, the Drill boys will just replace those girls in the mixed species exhibit, hopefully.

If the girls were not to be transferred to another zoo, I very highly doubt Detroit or any other major US zoo would work to breed the Drills and the Mandrills together. Anyway, most primate females in the US are on birth control, and monitored closely to prevent any unwanted pregnancies. This management technique has been highly successful in the US.
 
FYI, two hybrid mandrill x drill (both females) live(d) at the Limbe Wildlife Centre in Cameroon. One lived with the rest of the drill group, while the other repeatedly escaped to join their mandrills (until the management decided to let her be a "mandrill").

I too doubt that they would mix the two species in Detroit. Although living in the same "complex", there are actually four exhibits (two indoor + two outdoor), plus multiple holdings which would facilitate separation. Interesting that they might attempt mixing the highly endangered drills with (presumably) the gorillas. Does anyone know of other species that drills have been mixed with?
 
For the sake and purity of the species I wouldn't want Detroit to hybridize drills and mandrills. If the drill population was higher then I would tolerate it, but in order to save the species we need to boost drill numbers first before we hybridize.

We have moved our mandrills into the drill exhibit already. The drills are now in the gorilla building and have a visual access to the gorillas. From what I've heard the girls don't like the gorillas but the male does!
 
I would personally be against hybridization of any sort, since it has no conservation value whatsoever (I believe Limbe's were conceived through a fence!)
 
Ungulate said:
I would personally be against hybridization of any sort, since it has no conservation value whatsoever (I believe Limbe's were conceived through a fence!)
Click to expand...

NICE! I always joke about that (breeding through the fence) at work...but i'm glad to see it be true.

I think it might also be important to note that just because a zoo receives some new animals, it doesnt necessarily mean that the animals are to be breed. Several hundreds of animals are transferred around the continent and overseas every year...these arent all breeding transfers.

  • Many zoos need additional animals as companions (especially in the case of older animals)
  • Others are looking to receive a new species (many SSP will send their least valuable animals to new institutions of the programs)
  • And some zoos are simply holding non breeding individuals for the captive breeding program (think bachelor herds/groups).

Im not sure where the rumor that Detroit was interested in hybridizing drills/mandrills began, but this isnt necessarily something that most zoos want to accomplish.
 
okapikpr said:
Im not sure where the rumor that Detroit was interested in hybridizing drills/mandrills began, but this isnt necessarily something that most zoos want to accomplish.
Click to expand...

It was only because the article said they would be keeping both species, I mentioned the possibility/danger. But I wasn't suggesting they would do it deliberately and if the Mandrills leave, it doesn't apply.

I once saw a whole group (in double figures) of Drill/Mandrill hybrids in a German Zoo a long while ago- that would never happen now.

Did these Detroit males come from the Atlanta group?
 
Pertinax said:
Did these Detroit males come from the Atlanta group?
Click to expand...

Yes, I believe so. I know that they were born in Atlanta to say the least.

So San Diego and Lincoln Park have been unresponsive to my attempts to get information on their drills, so I'll go through back doors to try and acquire what I want.

I thought it would be neat to look at the current Drill demographics, so to start here are specifics about the Columbus Drills:

Lyle was born at the Los Angeles Zoo in California; DOB 7-22-92
Nora was born at Zoo Atlanta in Georgia; DOB 8-31-96
Eschu was born at Zoo Atlanta in Georgia; DOB 5-3-01

What is interesting is that the male is somehow the girls cousin, but I don't know what the familial link is. What's also funny is that LA no longer exhibits drills.
 
ColumbusZoo001 said:
What's also funny is that LA no longer exhibits drills.
Click to expand...

What's so funny about LA not having drills? I was so mad when LA stopped exhibiting them, they were one of my favorite animals at the LA zoo.:(

Does anybody know why LA decided not to exhibit Drills anymore?
 
Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't mean to offend you! I knew that LA had bred drills but I never knew who the offspring was. He happened just happened to be at the Columbus Zoo. I have no idea why LA stopped exhibiting them. Do you know the drills that used to live there?
 
ColumbusZoo001 said:
So San Diego and Lincoln Park have been unresponsive to my attempts to get information on their drills, so I'll go through back doors to try and acquire what I want.
Click to expand...

In 2002 San Diego were listed with the following Drills;

S/B No; 288 f. Rosie. born 1976 at Philadelphia.
290 m.Loon. born1979 at Philadelphia (same mother, different
father to 288)
291. f. Opal born 1979 at New Orleans.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top