Do you have to use net fenced roofs to keep climbing cats from escaping?

[foz]

i thought a junior keeper accidentally left the gate unlocked and so the jaguar managed to get into the tiger exhibit, so they yelled at the tiger (who didn't like loud noises) who then backed away into her house

 

[taun]

i thought a junior keeper accidentally left the gate unlocked and so the jaguar managed to get into the tiger exhibit, so they yelled at the tiger (who didn't like loud noises) who then backed away into her house

Maybe they didn't want to say this on the TV show to make it all more dramatic. I wonder whether the book has the true story?

 

[tetrapod]

Yes - most Regulations and Standards in Australian States owe their origin to the work originally done in NSW. However, State egos usually mean that each State puts it's own little twist to the regs somewhere. There is currently a push by the Federal government to introduce National Standards and Guidelines for Exhibited Animal Welfare. It would be wonderful if it would eventuate but already some States are acting a bit independent.

It would be a positive thing to see federal guidelines. Maybe we could see a streamlining of available species to be kept in Australia (both publically and privately) in the future.

 

[foz]

Maybe they didn't want to say this on the TV show to make it all more dramatic. I wonder whether the book has the true story?

i have the book in front of me:

"Rob and Duncan interviewed Richard, the keeper responsible for not locking the shutter,"
(page 75)

 

[taun]

Thanks Foz, the book is on my list of things to read just on a very long list and near the bottom

 

[Steve Robinson]

It would be a positive thing to see federal guidelines. Maybe we could see a streamlining of available species to be kept in Australia (both publically and privately) in the future.

Unfortunately [in some ways] the two areas are not really linked.

The government legislates the Standards.

ARAZPA "legislates" the species that this region will keep.

Politics and zoopolitics!

 

[okapikpr]

There have been many examples of animals in zoos- cats, apes, antelopes, living behind certain barriers quite contentedly until one day when something(extreme panic, anger etc) causes them to prove they can escape the enclosure, whether its by climbing, leaping, swimming or whatever.

Very true, no barrier is any match for an animal that becomes excited...they will do what ever it takes to escape if they feel the need to.

 

[Dan]

To Pertnax and okapipr,

Do you really mean this?! Aren´t you exagerating (spelling?... pretty sure it is wrong) a bit now? If you are right, basically every zoo animal´s and zoo visitor´s lives would be in danger. I mean, there are more or less scientifically proved data on how, for instance, this or that species can jump (etc), aren´t there.

 

[taun]

To Pertnax and okapipr,

Do you really mean this?! Aren´t you exagerating (spelling?... pretty sure it is wrong) a bit now? If you are right, basically every zoo animal´s and zoo visitor´s lives would be in danger. I mean, there are more or less scientifically proved data on how, for instance, this or that species can jump (etc), aren´t there.

Am sure they do, we don't nearly as much as we think we do.

How do we know what can happen when the adrenalin is pumping thru an animal.

 

[Dan]

Well...there has been at least some 100 years of serious research into zoology etc. And even many more years experience of keeping animals in zoos. I would have thought that enough experience would have been gathered now. At least concerning "non climbing" mammals - can´t find a better word now....

But of course, accidents will always happen. A few years ago, a tiger climbed the electric fence in a Danish zoo - can´t remember which one. It was supposed to be "fool proofed"...........

 

[mstickmanp]

To Pertnax and okapipr,

Do you really mean this?! Aren´t you exagerating (spelling?... pretty sure it is wrong) a bit now? If you are right, basically every zoo animal´s and zoo visitor´s lives would be in danger. I mean, there are more or less scientifically proved data on how, for instance, this or that species can jump (etc), aren´t there.

Looked what happened at San Francisco Zoo. The walls and moats were higher than the recommended, yet the tiger escaped. At the Los Angeles Zoo, they raised the side walls of the tiger exhibit by about 2-3 feet after the SF zoo attack.

 

[taun]

I would have thought that enough experience would have been gathered now.

See thats the problem, people thinking like that means that nature can allways spring a surprise on you.

An enclosure is never going to be completely unescapable but if there are systems in place and procedures the damage can be limited.

 

[taun]

Looked what happened at San Francisco Zoo. The walls and moats were higher than the recommended, yet the tiger escaped. At the Los Angeles Zoo, they raised the side walls of the tiger exhibit by about 2-3 feet after the SF zoo attack.

Just proves the point, dont take anything for granted when it concerns animals or nature!

 

[Dan]

OK.

So what are your conclusions? Should all predators in a zoo, that could threat a human being, be kept within mesh wire?

And what about the other species that can pose a threat to humankind?

 

[taun]

So what are your conclusions? Should all predators in a zoo, that could threat a human being, be kept within mesh wire?

It depends on the zoo and how they want to exhibit them, I must admit I love how close you can get to lions & tigers at chester (wire mesh fence) about a few feet away. Really shows you how impressive they are.

there are many ways to house predators in zoos and they are all good methods that have been used for years with only a few problems along the way.

And what about the other species that can pose a threat to humankind?

Any animal big or small can cause a threat to humankind, even if it is a minor one.

Is there really any animals that zoos keep that are really need different housing? all works fine most of the time.

 

[zoogiraffe]

I think the only thing you can do is design the enclosure to reduce the risk of the animal been able to escape,but if an animal wants to get out it will find away out no matter how good the enclosure.Chester has deep ditches around all the hoofstock paddocks backed up by a decent height of wall,but in the days of the keeping American Bison the Bull regularly used to clear it and go for a wander round the zoo at night,but was always found back in the enclosure in the morning as far as i know he never did it during the opening hours of the zoo.

 

[Pertinax]

If you are right, basically every zoo animal´s and zoo visitor´s lives would be in danger. I mean, there are more or less scientifically proved data on how, for instance, this or that species can jump (etc), aren´t there.

I'm not saying ALL animals are capable of escaping ALL enclosures. Only that occassional situations do still arise where an animal has exceeded the expectations of its abilities by leaping, climbing, burrowing or swimming a greater distance than expected and so escaping from its enclosure. Sometimes this may be because the animal's ability under stress has been underestimated, sometimes its because there is a basic flaw somewhere in the enclosure design.

New mistakes in enclosure design are still made. Marwell(UK) had an Amur(?) Leopard escape not so long ago, by squeezing through the cageroof where it surrounded a tree growing in the enclosure. This was a recently renovated/improved enclosure in a park which has thirty five years plus experience of keeping Leopards, yet this was a flaw in this design.

 

[tetrapod]

Unfortunately [in some ways] the two areas are not really linked.

The government legislates the Standards.

ARAZPA "legislates" the species that this region will keep.

Politics and zoopolitics!

I forgot that ARAZPA is part of the problem...

 

[tetrapod]

OK.

So what are your conclusions? Should all predators in a zoo, that could threat a human being, be kept within mesh wire?

And what about the other species that can pose a threat to humankind?

I am aware of two situations that probably couldn't be legislated for. A spooked hunting dog that cleared a fence with overhang that easily met the criteria, and a clouded leopard that squeezed through a piano wire barrier of a totally enclosed pen. In both cases nobody was harmed, and the animals were darted before being returned to the (security improved) enclosure.

It just happens. Zoos (good responsible ones) use whatever designs they can to make the most secure exhibits, but sometimes other species are more intelligent than architects.

Actually scratch that. Most species are more intelligent than architects.

 

[Steve Robinson]

Actually scratch that. Most species are more intelligent than architects.

You're a bit of a cynic tetrapod!


You HAVE worked in this industry, haven't you??!! LOL


What does your very accurate comment say about those zoos that habitually engage excessively priced "consultants" for new projects - and end up with a result that could have been achieved far more cost effectively in-house, as well as being more animal and staff friendly?