Does a zoo need hippos?

You still can't tell me Nile hippos are any uglier

I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that you should find one species visually unappealing. That's pretty impossible considering it all comes down to individual eyes and opinion.

I also fail to see how keeping pygmy hippos is a cop-out when they're far more endangered (though both are), much more available to zoos, and are much easier to fit into a collection, particularly for non-mega zoos.

~Thylo
 
Honestly, seeing so many Pygmy Hippos in zoos in US kinda ticks me off because it kinda screams "We want hippos but we have no money for ultra crystal clear water filters for 90% water exhibit so we decided to settle on the smaller one. Guests won't know the difference/"

Ugh I know! I hate how Pygmy Hippos are so commonplace and that the Common Hippos aren't in the spotlight! That less zoos want to invest in the bigger hippo!

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I don't think anyone is trying to convince you that you should find one species visually unappealing. That's pretty impossible considering it all comes down to individual eyes and opinion.

I also fail to see how keeping pygmy hippos is a cop-out when they're far more endangered (though both are), much more available to zoos, and are much easier to fit into a collection, particularly for non-mega zoos.

~Thylo

It's not that I think it's cop out, it's that I just find it very frustrating on how many zoos no longer keeps Nile Hippos because they thought they would need ultra crystal clear underwater viewing to make a good hippo exhibit. I mean, the last time I checked only 24/80 zoos in Top 100 US Zoos still keeps Nile Hippos, and that number is in danger of dwindling down.
 
It's not that I think it's cop out, it's that I just find it very frustrating on how many zoos no longer keeps Nile Hippos because they thought they would need ultra crystal clear underwater viewing to make a good hippo exhibit. I mean, the last time I checked only 24/80 zoos in Top 100 US Zoos still keeps Nile Hippos, and that number is in danger of dwindling down.

Where have you seen that zoos have phased-out Common Hippopotamus because they thought they needed ultra clear underwater viewing?

And as Binh noted, there are still way more holders of Common than pygmy hippos in the US. My most recent numbers have only 20 holders of pygmy across the US, Canada, and Mexico, while there are 43 holders of Common across that same area. That's over twice as many holders of Common as there are pygmy, and this includes the main holder of pygmy who is a private breeding facility in Florida.

~Thylo
 
It's not that I think it's cop out, it's that I just find it very frustrating on how many zoos no longer keeps Nile Hippos because they thought they would need ultra crystal clear underwater viewing to make a good hippo exhibit. I mean, the last time I checked only 24/80 zoos in Top 100 US Zoos still keeps Nile Hippos, and that number is in danger of dwindling down.
I wouldn’t consider “dwindling out” here in the states, with a couple major hippo exhibits opening in the past 5 years: Zambezi River Hippo Camp at Memphis Zoo and Simmons Hippo Outpost at Dallas Zoo. Both considered successes and major attractions to both zoos. Yes the total number of Pgymies is a bit larger than Common within the AZA, but Pygmies are still considered a Red SSP compared to the Commons as a Yellow SSP according their last TAG meetings a few months ago.

Common Hippos have star power like many charismatic megafauna and allows for proper funding for new homes as proven with the exhibits I’ve mentioned. So it wouldn’t be a fair characterization to say they’re being dwindled out. Even my local zoo is sending away their hippos to facilities that can care for them better, they’re currently finalizing their master plan as about 1/2 the zoo is outdated and the hippo habitat is in sore need of renovation.

Will I miss having our hippos? Of course. They’re slated to return down the line and it will be a while until we have them back, but it’s utmost importance to see them have proper homes for the animals that are to be cared for.

As for hippos not needing crystal clear water, many of the current/newer exhibits that have hippos want to be able to show them off. Zoos may find it hard to maintain or justify to themselves to display an animal that massive and costly that can only be partially seen at the surface level, resources that may be allocated to other exhibits or animals. So in this day and age, it can be said that it may lean more as a need to have these kinds of setups with clear water and underwater viewing windows for their guests to enjoy these wonderful animals.
 
Where have you seen that zoos have phased-out Common Hippopotamus because they thought they needed ultra clear underwater viewing?

And as Binh noted, there are still way more holders of Common than pygmy hippos in the US. My most recent numbers have only 20 holders of pygmy across the US, Canada, and Mexico, while there are 43 holders of Common across that same area. That's over twice as many holders of Common as there are pygmy, and this includes the main holder of pygmy who is a private breeding facility in Florida.

~Thylo

When's the last modern hippo exhibit other than Cheyenne Mountain Zoo opened that doesn't feature ultra crystal clear underwater viewing? With zoos like San Diego and Saint Louis making these kinds of very expensive exhibits trending, I wouldn't be surprised if zoos that wanted to exhibit a hippo were pressured to feature them.
 
Yes the total number of Pgymies is a bit larger than Common within the AZA, but Pygmies are still considered a Red SSP compared to the Commons as a Yellow SSP according their last TAG meetings a few months ago.

Are they, though? Both species are present in non-AZA facilities and Common moreso but by my estimates there are still more Common in the AZA than pygmy as the vast majority of pygmy hippos in the country are all at Rum Creek in Florida which is a private non-AZA facility.

~Thylo
 
Are they, though? Both species are present in non-AZA facilities and Common moreso but by my estimates there are still more Common in the AZA than pygmy as the vast majority of pygmy hippos in the country are all at Rum Creek in Florida which is a private non-AZA facility.

~Thylo

According to the 2019 statistics from AZA Ungulates, Common Hippo has double the population of Pygmy. And the numbers are possibly including Rum Creek as there is (+1 non-AZA) listed on Pygmy.

Edit: Pygmy numbers are older, 2016. But I don't believe they've grown any tremendous amount.
 
When's the last modern hippo exhibit other than Cheyenne Mountain Zoo opened that doesn't feature ultra crystal clear underwater viewing? With zoos like San Diego and Saint Louis making these kinds of very expensive exhibits trending, I wouldn't be surprised if zoos that wanted to exhibit a hippo were pressured to feature them.

St. Louis' hippo exhibit opened in 2002.. Not sure on when San Diego's exhibit opened but it also features pygmy hippos with underwater viewing. I'm not sure the last time a major US zoo added pygmy hippos but I know one zoo, Tulsa, is currently preparing to open one and they will also have underwater viewing.

Do you have any evidence that there is a trend of the popularity of underwater hippo viewing leads to less zoos exhibiting hippos?

~Thylo
 
Are they, though? Both species are present in non-AZA facilities and Common moreso but by my estimates there are still more Common in the AZA than pygmy as the vast majority of pygmy hippos in the country are all at Rum Creek in Florida which is a private non-AZA facility.

~Thylo
Perhaps I’m wrong and the current number that I see on the recent TAG meetings from March for the AZA and their non-AZA partners is currently at 122(38.75.9) for Pygmies and and 79(25.54) for Commons. As for Rum Creek, I’ve heard that as well a few times on here and a article I’ve seen about the facility once I looked it up.
 
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Metro Richmond added pygmy hippos a few years ago, in theory the water is clear but it rarely is. I'm not sure if Pittsburgh had pygmies before their new exhibit or not.
 
I think the real reason so many zoos aren't prioritizing hippos is the cost/space of life support system. My local zoo doesn't keep hippos (nor does any zoo in New England- barring pygmys at Franklin), but I was talking to one of the zoo staff who said they got a tour of Saint Louis' hippo exhibit. Apparently, the hippo exhibit itself is a very reasonable size, but the life support/water filtration equipment takes up four times the space of the habitat. That is a HUGE amount of space to dedicate to just one exhibit, and unless a zoo has a lot of space I'm not sure how they can justify dedicating so much space to life support/water filtration equipment for one exhibit. It's also something for zoos in cold areas that what are you going to do with hippos in the winter? Pygmys can live indoors year-round (like at Franklin Park Zoo), but Nile hippos really need an outdoor exhibit. That is a really big animal to figure out winter holdings for- including a large pool. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a single zoo that has indoor viewing to their hippo barn, meaning your dedicating lots of space and money to an animal that can only be viewed for half the year.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a single zoo that has indoor viewing to their hippo barn, meaning your dedicating lots of space and money to an animal that can only be viewed for half the year.
I'd imagine that in Europe it is standard. Even for American zoos it is easy to find photos in the Zoochat galleries showing the indoor viewing for hippos.
 
I like common hippos and I do think that the expensive focus on exhibits with underwater viewing has indeed had a negative impact on their numbers in zoos. Which is a pity because they are very interesting creatures that are very popular as well as relatively hardy, at least in comparison to other megavertebrates. And not as common in the wild anymore as some might think. There was a good article published in the recent BdZ magazine on the history of their husbandry. @Bib Fortuna could tell you more about it.
However, I do have a soft spot for pygmy hippos, among others due to my dad introducing me to the fascinating story of their capture by Hans Schomburgk in Liberia when I was a kid. My father actually met Schomburgk in person when the latter was still alive, and his fascination with that man is still strong to this day.
I wouldn't call one "uglier" than the other, though.

I also read the article - it was even very good.;) My fullest agreement, as far as the indoor keeping in Breslau is concerned...:( Welcome, to the 21th Century, you poor Hippos...:(
 
Perhaps I’m wrong and the current number that I see on the recent TAG meetings from March for the AZA and their non-AZA partners is currently at 122(38.75.9) for Pygmies and and 79(25.54) for Commons. As for Rum Creek, I’ve heard that as well a few times on here and a article I’ve seen about the facility once I looked it up.

I still believe well over half of those animals are kept by and at Rum Creek. By my estimates (which may well be incorrect), there are somewhere around 40 pygmy hippos in public AZA and AZA-affiliated zoos, give or take a few hippos. Meanwhile I know there are over 70 at Rum Creek alone. I wouldn't be surprised, though, to learn that there are more pygmies in AZA zoos though despite Common having a slight gain on number of holders due to their smaller size making it easier for zoos to hold additional individuals.

I think the real reason so many zoos aren't prioritizing hippos is the cost/space of life support system. My local zoo doesn't keep hippos (nor does any zoo in New England- barring pygmys at Franklin), but I was talking to one of the zoo staff who said they got a tour of Saint Louis' hippo exhibit. Apparently, the hippo exhibit itself is a very reasonable size, but the life support/water filtration equipment takes up four times the space of the habitat. That is a HUGE amount of space to dedicate to just one exhibit, and unless a zoo has a lot of space I'm not sure how they can justify dedicating so much space to life support/water filtration equipment for one exhibit. It's also something for zoos in cold areas that what are you going to do with hippos in the winter? Pygmys can live indoors year-round (like at Franklin Park Zoo), but Nile hippos really need an outdoor exhibit. That is a really big animal to figure out winter holdings for- including a large pool. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of a single zoo that has indoor viewing to their hippo barn, meaning your dedicating lots of space and money to an animal that can only be viewed for half the year.

Massive life support systems are often only needed on this scale at zoos where clear underwater viewing is included. It's one of the biggest arguments for why underwater viewing is unnecessary, in fact. These systems due take up way too much space and cause the price of the project to skyrocket. Take the new exhibit at Cincinnati discussed some pages back now, where the size of the animal space is so small the zoo cannot comply with AZA regulations of minimum three individuals meanwhile the size of the filter room dwarves the animal space. I don't think there's any doubt that the expense of underwater viewing for hippos may be a factor in why new zoos might be hesitant to pick up Common Hippos, however I've yet to see any evidence that this in any way is connected to a trend of many US zoos phasing-out Common Hippos in favor of pygmy (or even phasing-out with no plans for them to return in general) as @Emanuel Theodorus seems to believe.

Additionally, I don't really think there's going to be that much of a difference in expensive between needing a filtration for Common Hippos and needing it for pygmy hippos. The major different is more on the level of other resources. Feeding, housing, maintenance, exhibit space, keeper care, etc. Pygmy hippos are simply a lot less resource intensive than their larger relatives.

It is perhaps worth noting that underwater viewing does not inherently need crystal clear water. Sedgwick County's hippos have underwater viewing but the doesn't appear to be filtered much, if at all. Of course, this then leaves you with a pretty unappealing view.

The expense of filtration aside, there are other factors which may cause zoos to lean away from investing in Common Hippos. We've already discussed things such as pygmys being smaller, more easily managed, less resource intensive, more endangered ,and more readily available within the AZA, but there's also the issue of the modern standard of care we've accepted for Common Hippos which most pre-existing hippo holders simply do not fall in line with. Maybe there is one, but I've yet to find a truly great hippo exhibit in American zoos. Historically, most American hippo exhibits have looked like this:
Nile Hippo Exhibit - ZooChat (Fort Worth, now replaced)
New Nile Hippo Exhibit - ZooChat (Philadelphia, opened in 2010 or 2011)
Hippopotamus Exhibit - ZooChat (Los Angeles, due for demolition)

These enclosures generally feature average-sized pools and small, barren land areas. Hippos spend much more time on land than they've historically been given credit for, yet we have precious few exhibits in this country that can offer this. Even newer hippo exhibits with underwater viewing such as at Cincinnati (for which there appear to be no photos of the new exhibit on ZooChat?), Dallas, San Antonio, San Diego, etc. generally lack the land space these animals should actually have. The country's best hippo holder is probably Disney with their Kilimanjaro Safari habitats:
Kilimanjaro Safaris - First Hippo Exhibit - ZooChat
Kilimanjaro Safaris - Second Hippo Exhibit - ZooChat

But even these offer virtually no land space despite the excellent pool size. Not to mention, DAK aside, there are very few hippo holders here which can meet the rule of a minimum three-large herd. Most zoos manage two, which appears to be the max most of these habitats, even at zoos like San Diego, San Antonio, and St. Louis, can handle. While I've not been there to confirm myself, my understanding is the only major US zoo that has properly satisfied these two major needs for keeping Common Hippos in a modern facility is Memphis, where they care for four animals in a habitat with a sizeable pool (with underwater viewing) and provide a decently-sized land portion. Also, judging from the plans for Fort Worth's new hippo exhibit, their hippos might have access to the Black Rhinoceros yards overnight. If this is the case, then FW probably has the best hippo exhibit in the country but they'd still fall short of the minimum herd size requirement the AZA has established.

Now, all of that said, while these factors are surely deterring many zoos from wanting to add Common Hippos to their collection in the future, is there really any evidence of a noticeable decline of hippos in American zoos as was claimed? There aren't many major US zoos that already have or have upcoming plans to phase-out their Common Hippos without expressing the desire to reobtain them in the future. It's already been mentioned that while LA will be sending off their hippos in the future, they also have them returning on their masterplan. Fresno Chaffee phased-out hippos over 15 years ago, but they also plan on bringing them back in. Philadelphia has a pretty bad hippo exhibit, but rather than phase them out they are looking into ways to fit a new, more modern hippo facility into their masterplan. Dallas opened their new exhibit in 2017, Fort Worth opened theirs in 2018, Cheyenne Mountain opened their new exhibit just last year, and Nashville recently announced their plans to bring in the species for their upcoming African expansion.

Meanwhile, we have Tulsa and John Ball opening new pygmy hippo exhibits in the near future but that's about it. The former is also using this as a new exhibit for their Diana Monkeys. Bronx has expressed interest in the species but there are no known plans solidified for this. The only zoo I know of which may opt to phase-out Common Hippos while bringing in pygmy is Sedgwick County, but this remains to be seen. Otherwise, the latest zoos to pick up this species are non-AZA (Wildlife World, Tanganyika, Metro Richmond).

~Thylo
 
Here in the UK common hippos are not a species you see very often in zoos, but a good number do have pygmies. I always assumed it was because common hippos are harder to care for, same thing with elephants, but as far as space and enrichment requirements go, pygmy hippos probably aren't that dissimilar from something like a tapir, which are commonplace in UK zoos.
 
Here in the UK common hippos are not a species you see very often in zoos, but a good number do have pygmies. I always assumed it was because common hippos are harder to care for, same thing with elephants, but as far as space and enrichment requirements go, pygmy hippos probably aren't that dissimilar from something like a tapir, which are commonplace in UK zoos.

The UK only has one more holder of pygmy than they do Common :p 5 for pygmy vs 4 for Common.

~Thylo
 
I'd imagine that in Europe it is standard. Even for American zoos it is easy to find photos in the Zoochat galleries showing the indoor viewing for hippos.

Indeed, of the six common hippo enclosures I've seen, I've seen indoor viewing in five (Antwerp, Berlin, Köln, Beekse Bergen, Gelsenkirchen). Only in Pairi Daiza I haven't seen an indoor enclosure (but that could also be my mistake).

In terms of pygmy hippos, at least Krefeld, Duisburg, Rotterdam and Overloon offer(ed) indoor viewing. I think Gaiazoo and Pairi Daiza don't have indoor indoor viewing, and I'm unsure about Berlin. Burgers' also had only outdoor viewing when they still had pygmy hippos. So it's a bit more mixed when it comes to pygmy hippos.

Edit: forgot about Rome, they also have both, but I cannot seem to remember their enclosures so I don't know if they have indoor viewing.
 
The UK only has one more holder of pygmy than they do Common :p 5 for pygmy vs 4 for Common.

~Thylo
That's actually surprising, the only time I've ever seen commons is at Flamingo Land in 2007, and I don't remember seeing many listed on the websites for zoos I've planned on going to, but I'm surprised more don't have pygmies.
 
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