Drowned apes

Animal

Animal

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At the Hamburg-Thread we started, after in Hamburg drowned a Orang, a discussion about incidents with apes and water-moats.

Pertinax said:
I listed the ones I knew of somewhere on another thread once.

From memory;
Bronx 1951. Male gorilla fell in and drowned
Frankfurt 1960's Male gorilla fell in(heart attack?) and drowned.
"" "" " chimpanzee also drowned? (they filled in the moat afterward but now the new apehouse has water barriers again...)
Longleat. 1970's. male gorilla drowned.
Chester.1960's Young orangutan drowned.
Dublin. young orangutan drowned ?(I think)
Chimpanzee drowned.
Hanover.1990's. male Gorilla 'Arti' drowned.
Hagenbeck (yesterday). female Orangutan drowned.
Arnhem- I think an orangutan may have drowned there also.

There may be others I don't know about....
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I also remember a Gibbon in Leipzig a few years ago...

So, what do you know?
 
in the UK:

1) I think an orang died in the moat at Blackpool a few years ago.

2) I have a feeling Penscynor lost at least one chimpanzee in its history through drowing.

3) When Flamingoland opened the open-air extension to the old chimp house (not the current exhibit which is the old elephant house and paddock), one of the adult males climbed the dead tree on being released into the compound and fell off into the moat and drowned.


In Ireland:

Dublin have lost chimps, I think both on the original island and maybe two animals when the newer island opened in the african section...
 
Those figures are quite depressing.
Will zoo's not learn?!
 
the site below discusses this issue with regard to modern german ape exhibits:

http://www.leszoosdanslemonde.com/h...s/review_gorilla_1993_2003/review_gorilla.htm

of the UK sites I listed, most were past mistakes and the zoos in question are now either closed or no longer house their apes in a moated situation. The most depressing for me is Blackpool as their orang exhibit was designed with a dry moat, which for some reason was filled with water a few years ago. Totally unnecessary when you consider how easy it would have been to have modified the already high walls or added hotwire.
 
Very sad :( In 1998, an Orang at the Toronto Zoo drowned after falling into a moat. A zoo visitor made an attempt to rescue him, but he later passed on. Some people were feeding them (a huge no no), a fight broke out and the little guy fell in.
 
HI johnstoni,

Really enjoyed reading the Geman link.
 
johnstoni said:
in the UK:

1) I think an orang died in the moat at Blackpool a few years ago.

Yes, I forgot the Blackpool orangutan, it was young male 'Beau' and this incident was only a few months ago. That is what stimulated the previous list. I've no idea why Blackpool decided to fill the moat with water after many years of it being dry.

The following UK zoos have Apes which live in enclosures with watermoats;
London(gorillas) Whipsnade (chimps) Bristol(gorillas) Paignton(orangs & gorillas) Dudley(orangs still?) Chester(chimps + Orang) Blackpool(gorilla) Dublin(orang/chimp?) Longleat(gorilla) Jersey(orangs) Chessington are possibly planning a new moated exhibit(gorillas).

In Europe there are almost too many to mention and the trend for new ones still goes on; Frankfurt, Nurenburg, Apenheul, Kerkrade, BeekesBergen Safari(?) Hodenhagen, Hamburg, Arnhem, Givskud, Kolmarden, Hanover, St Martin, Vallee de Singes, La Boissiere, Beauval, formerly Rotterdam until Bokito escaped, the list goes on...Basel are planning watermoats for their new outdoor areas too. There is also Taronga in Australia and no doubt a number in the USA too.

A lot of the accidents have involved adult animals so the danger of an accident would seem to be always present throughout both the animals' and the exhibit's life. Its not just a case of young apes learning to be 'safe'.
Yet zoos still favour this type of display because of the visual improvement for visitors.
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taun said:
That is one of the reason Chester wet for vertical walls instead of a moated outdoor enclosure. Much safer for the Orangutans
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Doesn't one of the new outdoor enclosures have a water-barrier at the front?
 
Pertinax said:
Doesn't one of the new outdoor enclosures have a water-barrier at the front?
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It's not really a moat, it's more of a water source for the rocky waterfall. I doubt any Orang (or gibbon) could drown in it as it is reasonably small enough for them to climb out.

[photo=10509;557;Orang_28.JPG]Orang Utan at Chester[/photo]
[photo=10510;557;Gibbon_10.JPG]Lar Gibbon at Chester[/photo]
[photo=10511;557;Realm_Of_The_Red_Ape_4.JPG]Realm of the Red Ape[/photo]

The exhibit image shows the water barrier that is used.
 
There is moats still in state of the art enclosures, Melbourne's new Orang-Utan sanctuary has some sort of moat,

I can't really explain it stuck for words,
 
CZJimmy said:
It's not really a moat, it's more of a water source for the rocky waterfall. I doubt any Orang (or gibbon) could drown in it as it is reasonably small enough for them to climb out.
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Thanks, I remember seeing something 'watery' but that looks safe enough...
 
I think the more loose material you have in the enclosure, the more likely an escape over an electric fence. There are plenty of branches an orang could fashion to break/scale an electric fence in the Chester enclosure, wheras at monkey world, with electric fences, everything inside the compound is bolted down. I think there was a discussion on another thread where I was harping on about apes not having wooded exhibits with actual trees, and on reflection I would say the biggest liability is not tree damage, it's that a wooded enclosure is full of possible tools for escape....hence the need for high walls and a moat in many cases, possibly to prevent a walled enclosure resembling a pit. However Jersey and Port Lympne zoos in the UK have really good gorilla exhibits with no moat, and manage to be large enough as to not resemble a pit.

Escapes which end in the death of the ape(s) are possibly the one thing worse for publicity than an ape drowning.....interestingly some of the same zoos mentioned that have had drowning incidents have also had escapes which resulted in shootings (penscynor, flamingoland etc)
 
johnstoni said:
I think there was a discussion on another thread where I was harping on about apes not having wooded exhibits with actual trees, and on reflection I would say the biggest liability is not tree damage, it's that a wooded enclosure is full of possible tools for escape.

Escapes which end in the death of the ape(s) are possibly the one thing worse for publicity than an ape drowning.....
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If you've read 'Chimpanzee Politics' about the big chimp colony at Arnhem Zoo, you'll know the chimps there frequently used fallen branches from the big trees in the enclosure as 'tools' usually as 'ladders' into the trees which were electrified at their base, but I think at least once some scaled the perimeter wall after using a propped-up tree branch...

re drownings/shooting;

Bronx New York probably experienced the worst time for an Ape to drown- right in front of a packed Sunday afternoon crowd. The 11 year old male Gorilla 'makoko' went to run along the raised concrete lip of the moat, missed his footing and tumbled in. He sank like a stone. As Lee Crandall(or someone) later wrote- 'that day we learned what the books didn't tell us'...

shootings- these can be avoided if a zoovet can get there first before the 'hit squad' marksmen or armed police arrive. In the case at Dallas Zoo, the police unfortunately shot the unfortunate Gorilla dead. 'Bokito' at Rotterdam was luckier, the man with the dart gun got to him first.

But I think with chimps there's often no option(as at Whipsnade last year) to shoot the animal dead. I think I would be more frightened of an adult(male) chimpanzee on the rampage than either a Gorilla or Orangutan...;)
 
Pertinax said:
In Europe there are almost too many to mention and the trend for new ones still goes on; Frankfurt
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Frankfurt has now it´s apes just indoors, there are no outside-exhibits.

CZJimmy said:
It's not really a moat, it's more of a water source for the rocky waterfall. I doubt any Orang (or gibbon) could drown in it as it is reasonably small enough for them to climb out.
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Sadly apes are just like small children... And like them, they can drown in a puddle...
And no one of you would let play his child alone in a garden, where is a just 20cm deep pond, or would you?!
 
The new Budongo display for chimps at Edinburgh has a water moat on the southern (downhill) side of the paddock. At the edge there are boulders with fairly thick planting between them and I thought I could also see some of those hotwire 'sprays' that are used so liberally at the Regents Park gorilla display. Is this correct or did my eyes deceive me?

Alan
 
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Alan you will need to give us a review of your trip to Scotland along with some of your fine pictures too.
 
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