Artis Royal Zoo Drug use at Artis

KevinB

KevinB

Well-Known Member
10+ year member
There is some ruckus ongoing on social media over a part of park policy at Artis, as detailed by the Dutch Looopings website. Apparently Artis wrote to a complaining visitor that they tolerate visitors smoking marijuana on zoo grounds (apart from playgrounds, terraces and in buildings where all smoking is banned).
Dierentuin Artis laat blowen toe

The article even suggests that visiting the zoo while high on drugs is apparently a thing amongst some people. Seriously, isn't the general public bad enough already that you would also have to deal with drugged up ****** at Artis zoo?

I know Amsterdam is oh so lamentably famous for its way too liberal attitude towards drug use but I'm disgusted that Artis is going right along with this. If there's one place in that whole decadent city where they shouldn't allow drug use or stoned ********s it should be a family-oriented attraction like the zoo. It is in my opinion totally disgusting, unacceptable and a very wrong message from the zoo to society and to visitors that they allow drug use on their grounds. A liberal attitude to drug use should not be allowed anywhere in society, and most certainly not at a place that is supposed to be family-friendly, family-oriented and educational like a zoo.

Honestly I think Artis should be forced to change this policy or be punished most severely with hefty fines, temporary closure and temporary revoking of membership to zoo organizations.
 
Don't get so exacerbated, is allowing someone to consume marijuana (in designated areas) any different/worse than allowing someone to consume alcohol in the zoo? It's how someone acts that's important, not what they've consumed. You probably wouldn't like to meet me on too much coffee. :)

KevinB said:
A liberal attitude to drug use should not be allowed anywhere in society
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I know it's your personal opinion but you're swimming against the stream nowadays. Try reading "Chasing the Scream" by Johann Hari for a detailed explanation about why prohibition doesn't work and why the "war on drugs" is pointless, doomed to failure and slowly being abandoned and ignored across the world.

KevinB said:
Honestly I think Artis should be forced to change this policy or be punished most severely with hefty fines, temporary closure and temporary revoking of membership to zoo organizations.
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Give me a few people smoking weed over your draconian (over)reactions to matters you disagree with (which, as far as I can see, break no laws).
 
TeaLovingDave said:
Don't hold back - why don't you tell us what you really feel about cannabis use? :p

It has ten teeth? :p
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In three words: damaging, dangerous and delinquent. And it shouldn't have any place in society nor should it be tolerated anywhere.

I used the word decadent in the sense of meaning "characterized by or reflecting a state of moral or cultural decline".

Shorts said:
Don't get so exacerbated, is allowing someone to consume marijuana (in designated areas) any different/worse than allowing someone to consume alcohol in the zoo? It's how someone acts that's important, not what they've consumed. You probably wouldn't like to meet me on too much coffee. :)
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I don't think using drugs or being under the influence should have a place in family-oriented places like zoos. Too much potential for nuisance and dangerous behavior.

Shorts said:
I know it's your personal opinion but you're swimming against the stream nowadays. Try reading "Chasing the Scream" by Johann Hari for a detailed explanation about why prohibition doesn't work and why the "war on drugs" is pointless, doomed to failure and slowly being abandoned and ignored across the world.
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I know that its at least somewhat against the cultural and societal tide today, but I continue to hold a principled hardline stance against drugs in society. I do not agree at all with these new tolerant approaches towards drugs in society.

Shorts said:
Give me a few people smoking weed over your draconian (over)reactions to matters you disagree with (which, as far as I can see, break no laws).
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Even in the Netherlands cannabis isn't actually legal (although there are places where it is), it is just tolerated and offenses are not policed against or punished. Using cannabis in a public place isn't legal even in the Netherlands, nor is it in places where cannabis has actually been legalized.

Maybe calling for measures against Artis zoo was a bit draconian, but I think they should nonetheless (be made to) change their policy.
 
You are Jacob Rees Mogg and I claim my five pounds.

I could retort to your comments with reasoned argument and not a small amount of wit but it'd all be wasted -you're unlikely to budge on your stance and I'm not going to change my opinion, so I'll just agree to differ and enjoy the rest of my Sunday (and hope you do the same).
 
Shorts said:
You are Jacob Rees Mogg and I claim my five pounds.

I could retort to your comments with reasoned argument and not a small amount of wit but it'd all be wasted -you're unlikely to budge on your stance and I'm not going to change my opinion, so I'll just agree to differ and enjoy the rest of my Sunday (and hope you do the same).
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I had to research that reference...

I think agreeing to disagree is an acceptable solution. We wouldn't come to a solution anyway and I don't think ZooChat is a place for political discussions.
 
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Sure, hard drugs don't belong in a zoo (but they're not legal anyway, so it's not like a zoo can allow them). But marijuana? I seriously doubt that causes any dangerous behavior. It might actually make people too mellow and stupid to do dangerous things even if they wanted to. At worst, you're gonna get someone lazing around on a bench or emptying the zoo buffet (if Artis even has a buffet).

I'm with Shorts on this one; I really cannot see how it would be worse to let people smoke weed in designated areas than to serve them beer, and this is coming from someone who regularly drinks alcohol, but doesn't smoke weed.

@KevinB: You're allowed to have your opinions, and there's nothing wrong in defending them, but maybe you should take a deep breath and consider the non-extremist solutions to a problem before you post about stuff that aggravates you. We can't close zoos every time they make a mistake or cause controversy, whether it's Planckendael having a lion escape or Artis allowing cannabis.
 
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Smoking cannabis isn't legal in the Netherlands either, but it is tolerated and nothing is done against it. So the zoo can't really allow it... they just don't do anything against it.

Personally, as someone who neither drink alcohol nor smokes weed, I would prefer if people did neither in a zoo or in some other places.

@Hvedekorn : I realize I should not have included that part in my post and I apologize for doing so. I made the same mistake I made a few times before again and I will think about how to prevent this in the future.
 
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Hvedekorn said:
But marijuana? I seriously doubt that causes any dangerous behavior. It might actually make people too mellow and stupid to do dangerous things even if they wanted to. At worst, you're gonna get someone lazing around on a bench or emptying the zoo buffet (if Artis even has a buffet).
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All I'll say is that I have never had a bad experience with a stoned person in a zoo, but I have encountered unpleasantly over-refreshed zoo visitors a few times..... :p not to mention my personal experience with an alcoholic family member of Helly's.

But alcohol is fully legal, so naturally @KevinB won't view this as a problem at all, let alone "damaging, dangerous and delinquent" .:rolleyes:

Fun fact incidentally - the criminalization of cannabis was originally based more on the threat hemp cultivation posed to the linen and cotton industries than the effect of cannabis as a drug!
 
TeaLovingDave said:
All I'll say is that I have never had a bad experience with a stoned person in a zoo, but I have encountered unpleasantly over-refreshed zoo visitors a few times..... :p not to mention my personal experience with an alcoholic family member of Helly's.

But alcohol is fully legal, so naturally @KevinB won't view this as a problem at all, let alone "damaging, dangerous and delinquent" .:rolleyes:

Fun fact incidentally - the criminalization of cannabis was originally based more on the threat hemp cultivation posed to the linen and cotton industries than the effect of cannabis as a drug!
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I've dealt with unpleasant stoners at music festivals, as well as unpleasant drunks. That said I've not yet met either at a zoo.

Certainly alcohol is dangerous and I'm definitely not one to make excuses for alcohol because it's legal and socially established, but it won't necessarily make people unpleasant or a nuisance from the first unit consumed - most often some degree of unreasonable/immoderate consumption will be needed for that.

But we are beginning to de-rail the topic so I will be abstaining from further commentary on this discussion. If anyone wants to say anything more they can contact me privately.
 
I'd rather deal with neither stoners nor drunks, especially not while at the zoo, and I still think that a zoo should at the very least refuse entry to or remove those stoners or drinkers who cause a nuisance for other visitors, staff or animals (which the article suggested was sometimes the case). I think the zoo should also clearly indicate that they do not want this kind of thing on their grounds.

That said, I was wrong in at least suggesting the zoo should bear the brunt of societal attitudes to drug use (especially in a place like Amsterdam) or in making this a general discussion about drug usage by including statements regarding general drug policy in my post.

I apologize for this as I should have known better than to post these things.

It seems I don't have a sufficient grip on myself and I am going to try and do something about that.

I really don't know how to move on from this though at the moment and I'm not yet sure if and how I'm going to continue being a decent and valuable member of this site.
 
I'm sure they remove those that are a nuisance. But you're presuming that they're all automatically going to be a nuisance, when most aren't.

You've said several times now on various posts that you're going to stop posting on this site (and/or stop replying to conversations). Maybe you should take a step back and thing about why you get so emotional over an internet message board.
 
The no smoking ban has been in existence since 2018. For employees it has been discouraged and around for even longer ...!

My personal perception is: if for some reason smoking "wiet" (marihuana) is the be and end all of your journey to Amsterdam and / or its zoo there is something seriously wrong in your home country vis a vis drug use, personal freedoms, perceptions of democracy and effective policy-making.

Also, I remain of the opinion that "wiet" should not be on any drug listings anywhere as having it on that listing criminalises any usage or private consumption (and thus brings out the criminal element in society with gross profits to be made and that policy has been shown to be counterproductive across Europe). There are many hard drugs around (crystal meths, heroin, amphetamines, xylazine sedative drug ... et cetera) that do pose a long term health risk. But even then by pushing busting any addicts of hard drugs you are not going to cure them nor kill demand or supply.

You may wish to disagree, that is fine.
 
Lets worry about the people who climb into enclosures, feed the animals, react hostile to other visitors and otherwise endanger animals first (of which there are plentiful)... Then we can discus the ethics of consuming plants that alter your world perception and behavior.
 
Kifaru Bwana said:
My personal perception is: if for some reason smoking "wiet" (marihuana) is the be and end all of your journey to Amsterdam and / or its zoo there is something seriously wrong in your home country vis a vis drug use, personal freedoms, perceptions of democracy and effective policy-making.
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Again , well put Kifaru , totally agree with your comment here.
 
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