Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoo killer Whale

Parrotsandrew said:
Do you mind if I dispute a couple of dates? Flamingo Park opened on 28th June 1961, and Scarborough Zoo and Marineland on 15th June 1969.
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Thanks again. I will amend the Scarborough date, The date for Flamingo Park relates to the time dolphins were displayed not the opening of the park. Thanks also for confirming the date for Blackpool. The animal in the photograph at Blackpool (on my web site) I actually worked with at Margate dolphinarium.
 
Thank-you for your reply. I didn't mean the Flamingo Park Dolphinarium date on your website - I meant the opening sentence in the F P text saying the zoo opened in 1959. I think 1959 was when Pentland Hick purchased Kirby Misperton Hall.

I'm afraid I cannot confirm the Blackpool date as I was putting your date to my memory of spotting a Dolphin pool at Blackpool! It is interesting that you worked with the animal on the photograph.

I am not convinced Scarborough Zoo and Marineland closed in 1984, despite it saying that on the local newspaper's website I've just checked. I worked for a company in Scarborough that had the zoo as a client. I started work for the company in December 1985 and a colleague who had started three months earlier told me he had been to the zoo on his first day at work. I also remember Don Robinson appearing on regional television in connection with the Klinowska and Brown report saying the intention was that the zoo would increase the size of the pool to comply with any new legislation. For whatever reason, of course, there was a change of plan and the Dolphins departed soon afterwards (to Windsor I think). As far as I remember that was pretty much the end of the zoo. I notice also there is a photograph of a Raccoon on Zoo Chat said to be at Mr Marvel's on 24th August 1986 so animals were still there then. I was not aware Mr Marvel's had had any animals, but there could have been some crossover involving the name of the place etc.
 
Parrotsandrew said:
I am not convinced Scarborough Zoo and Marineland closed in 1984, despite it saying that on the local newspaper's website I've just checked. I worked for a company in Scarborough that had the zoo as a client. I started work for the company in December 1985 and a colleague who had started three months earlier told me he had been to the zoo on his first day at work. I also remember Don Robinson appearing on regional television in connection with the Klinowska and Brown report saying the intention was that the zoo would increase the size of the pool to comply with any new legislation. For whatever reason, of course, there was a change of plan and the Dolphins departed soon afterwards (to Windsor I think). As far as I remember that was pretty much the end of the zoo.
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Interesting. Well one of the dolphinarium operators I work for did have some links with Don Robinson, he was involved with a number of companies that had dolphin shows. Klinowska and Brown published A Review of Dolphinaria in 1986 and they list dolphinaria that were operating and those that where had closed. They detail Scarborough and note the dolphins left in 1984 although that didn't mean the zoo closed at that time which maybe explains your observation.

Klinowska and Brown noted that animals were moved around and they state:

The dolphins usually wintered elsewhere: Malta (1974 at least), South Africa (1975-1976), Gibraltar (1977?), Windsor (1978-1985), Christmas 1983/4 Belfast. Some animals travelled between Scarborough/Flamingo and Mr Robinson's establishment at Hemingford, Quebec in Canada about 1970 - 1974.​

Most of the boom in dolphinaria in the UK began to wind down with the introduction of the US Marine Mammal Protection Act in 1974 which more or less prohibited the capture and export of animals from US waters - this was amended some years later which allowed limited permits for capture for among things 'public display'. Pre 1974 act animals in captivity in the US could be acquired for export but these were limited in number. European dolphinaria then looked to other places to find animals such as Mexico and Cuba. When Klinowska and Brown undertook their research only the facilities at Morecambe, Knowsely, Windsor, Flamingoland and Brighton survived: by this time Windsor had begun to successfully breed and rear dolphins.

The last three female dolphins to be imported into the UK in 1983 being held at Knowsley whist the renovation of the pools at Flamingoland was undertaken; the dolphinarium had last been used in 1979 and need considerable work undertaken on it including a new water treatment system. They moved into Flamingoland in 1984 and were ironically the last animals to leave in 1993 for aquaria in Europe. To date they are still alive and well and have bred successfully on a number of occasions.
 
Mmm. I'm wondering if Don Robinson appeared on television when it had been announced that a report had been commissioned or something like that. It looks as though the zoo limped along without Dolphins for longer than I had thought. As I was not a fan of Scarborough Zoo I had not been for a few years before the departure of the Dolphins so I don't have any real first-hand knowledge of the final years. I don't know if this was always the case, but the pool was unfenced (as can be seen from the photograph on the inside back cover of "Dolphins, Kings of the Sea") and when there was not a show taking place visitors could stand almost at the very edge of the pool (I did on occasion!). I'm sure the Health and Safety fraternity would faint at the thought these days.
 
Speaking of orca pools for captive orcas. How is the accomodation for the orcas at Kamogawa aquarium in Japan. I know Japan has been bad news for dolphins but has that changed? Are the orcas at Kamogawa bored and lonely? or not? I am glad I didn't go to that place in Argentina where Ksamenk is sounds too depressing.
 
zebra finch said:
Speaking of orca pools for captive orcas. How is the accommodation for the orcas at Kamogawa aquarium in Japan. I know Japan has been bad news for dolphins but has that changed? Are the orcas at Kamogawa bored and lonely? or not? I am glad I didn't go to that place in Argentina where Ksamenk is sounds too depressing.
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Kamogawa has been quite successful with their orcas with a number have been born in the aquarium. They have three wild caught orcas the last wild import was in 1987, the rest of the group are captive bred. The three wild caught animals came from Iceland and were not captured in a any drive fishery in Japan.

Captive Killer Whales (Living): Kamogawa Sea World - Japan

Some photos of the pools can be found here:

:: Kamogawa Sea World, Japan :: Orcinus-orca.pl

Three animals from here were recently transfer on loan to Port of Nagoya Aquarium. The male Bingo and female Stella and their calf Ran II. Stella is believed to be pregnant again.

Captive Killer Whales: Port of Nagoya - Japan

I doubt if the orcas are "lonely" as they are in a group and also have families. In fact, they have been "a bit too successful" in breeding which is why they have moved three of the these animals to free up pool space at Kamogawa. The facilities at Port of Nagoya Aquarium are quite large.

:: Nagoya Port of Public Aquarium, Japan :: Orcinus-orca.pl

They transported the male and pregnant female by boat in a tank which is quite novel. The calf was transport by road.

http://www.nagoyaaqua.jp/aqua/part/saka/pdf/3-28.pdf


Kshamenk situation is somewhat different as he was a stranded animal from 1992 and not part of any deliberate capture operation. Indeed, the facilities here may not met the minimum requirements of pool size for these animals in a number of countries but he has been there 20 years now. I suspect he thinks he is a dolphin as he spend so much time with them. Moreover, be aware that many of the photos of this animal used by animal-rights groups have been selectively taken of him in a holding pool, etc. If you look at the satellite view on the below web page you will see the pool complex is bigger than it looks.

:: Mundo Marino Acuario, Argentina :: Orcinus-orca.pl
 
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Kamogawa's orca pool is by no means massive, however from a founder group of 3 animals they have been incredibly successful with 5 young bred over the last 13 years (4 surviving to adulthood) and have now split the group to send an adult male and female, plus youngster to Port of Nagoya and 4 orca remain at Kamogawa. Of those animals the PON female and the two older Kamogawa females are either confirmed of thought to be pregnant. I am unsure of the standards of animal welfare in Japanese facilities but at least with the killer whale group, they are probably (at the moment) more productive and successful than any facility in the world.

You can see they have only one large pool and a fairly big holding pool also:

Kamogawa SeaWorld
 
Hyak2 said:
I am unsure of the standards of animal welfare in Japanese facilities but at least with the killer whale group, they are probably (at the moment) more productive and successful than any facility in the world.

You can see they have only one large pool and a fairly big holding pool also:

Kamogawa SeaWorld
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Yes it is interesting how well they have done and also they are still working in the water with their animals. I think the "trick" is once you get females that successfully rear young you're are in a wining situation. Hopefully the animals will continue to do well at Port of Nagoya Aquarium.

This goes back to something my colleague Dr Klinowska observed when she researched UK dolphinaria that the management of the animals was just as important (maybe more so) than the size of the facilities.
 
John, you are quite obviously a highly experienced marine mammal handler. Have you any knowledge of the requirements of freshwater dolphins, and in your opinion ought we to try to establish a population of one of the commoner species so that the "know-how" is established to prevent another tragedy such as the Baiji's extinction?
 
IanRRobinson said:
John, you are quite obviously a highly experienced marine mammal handler. Have you any knowledge of the requirements of freshwater dolphins, and in your opinion ought we to try to establish a population of one of the commoner species so that the "know-how" is established to prevent another tragedy such as the Baiji's extinction?
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Interesting question! I'd love to see more freshwater species in zoos and aquaria! (2 or 3 facilities in the world currently have house if I remember correctly.) There is very little public knowledge of their existence!
 
Thank you for posting these wonderful pictures. Its interesting that Japan with a bad reputation for treatment of cetacean has a high standard for keeping orcas at this place. I wouldn't mind visiting some time. When the earthquakes stop.
On freshwater species it was a pity they couldn't save the Yangtze river dolphin.
 
Bubbles has tracked down some interesting articles on Calypso (I had only two until now). She was one of 12 Killer Whales captured by fishermen from Pender Harbour (or Harbor) 50 miles north of Vancouver on December 11th/12th 1969. Four were released as being too large to transport, two escaped and five went to California (one article says five were released and one escaped). The second (?) to escape was described as 20' long and ripped through two fishing nets as attempts were being made to load it on to a sling. It was one of three that had been bought by Marine World, Redwood City. All the articles plus one of the ones I already had say Calypso was bound for Flamingo Park. The odd one out, "A Whale of a time at Cleethorpes", was written after Calypso had arrived, by which time she was described as being 18' instead of 14' as previously.
 
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I believe Calypso ended up at Cleethopres only by accident - she was destined for the Marineland in Antibes but just before she arrived the pool sprang a leak of some kind and she had to be 'stored' - for want of a better word - in Cleethorpes. It makes sense that she should end up there as there were several connetions between the parks due to the people working there. While she was Cleethorpes, the Flamingo Park vet David Taylor attempted the very first Killer Whale artificial insemination (which failed).

More photos of Calypso here:

Calypso

She died in December 1970 only 1 year after capture.
 
Interesting photos Dean, thank-you. My "Whale of a time" article says she was due to be in Cleethorpes for about 6 weeks before heading for Nice.
 
gentle lemur said:
I remember the killer whale: and I have photos somewhere in my files, I'll try to dig them out in the next few days. I guess it must been in the early seventies, when I visited Dudley from time to time. The pool struck me at the time as being too small, so by today's standards it would seem very small indeed. Although it would still be adequate for smaller creatures.
I can't remember elephant seals though; would they have been in the same pool, but later on?

Alan
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Hi Alan, I appreciate this message is many years after you first posted. I am currently writing an article for a local newspaper -- I'm a Birmingham-based journalist -- trying to pull together an oral history of Cuddles, 50 years after his death, trying to find out more about those who saw him and wondered if you might be interested in chatting. Long shot as I know you haven't posted on this thread in a long while!

Best,

Dan
 
Hi All. I appreciate this thread was very much active over a decade ago. My name is Dan Cave, I'm a journalist who, by and large, writes for the Birmingham Dispatch: a local features-led online newspaper. I usually write about the culture and local history of the city and its surrounding areas, as well as the wider West Midlands and Black Country.

With it being the 50th anniversary of Cuddles death, I wondered if anyone on the forum might be open to talking to me (can be anonymous if you want) about Cuddles if they had gone to see him when they were younger or the evolution/progression of whale welfare in UK zoos or conditions at the time.

As we're hoping to pull together an oral history of sorts, collating the experiences of those that had seen him or went to see similar exhibits at the time, any experience or trip valid.

Hope someone sees this!

Dan
 
DanCaveBirmingham said:
Hi All. I appreciate this thread was very much active over a decade ago. My name is Dan Cave, I'm a journalist who, by and large, writes for the Birmingham Dispatch: a local features-led online newspaper. I usually write about the culture and local history of the city and its surrounding areas, as well as the wider West Midlands and Black Country.

With it being the 50th anniversary of Cuddles death, I wondered if anyone on the forum might be open to talking to me (can be anonymous if you want) about Cuddles if they had gone to see him when they were younger or the evolution/progression of whale welfare in UK zoos or conditions at the time.

As we're hoping to pull together an oral history of sorts, collating the experiences of those that had seen him or went to see similar exhibits at the time, any experience or trip valid.

Hope someone sees this!

Dan
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Hello Dan,

I saw Cuddles really for all of this career in this country as we lived in Bridlington at the time of his arrival at Flamingo Park in November 1968 and we visited the following weekend to see him ("her" as it was believed at the time) and then regularly up until April 1971 when we moved to Shrewsbury. A few weeks later we made our first visit to Dudley Zoo where we found his pool awaiting and a sign saying he was arriving the following week. We then visited Dudley fairly frequently until we returned to Bridlington in September 1974, obviously seven months after his death. I remember the news stories about him being for sale and then my mother shouting upstairs to say it had been on the radio news that he had died. There was an article in "Keeper Contact" magazine about him in 2022 with which I lent a hand.

Andrew
 
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