Dudley Zoological Gardens Dudley Zoological Gardens in 2013
- Thread starter Angel
- Start date
There are more Geladas in the UK now than probably at anytime previously. Three Zoos, Colchester, Edinburgh and Dudley now have breeding or potential breeding groups while Howletts which until now had effectively only a pair of breeders, will get an additional 0.2. which should bulk up their breeding now.
Does anyone know where Dudley got their females from, and when?
Hopefully this increase will eventually result into a spread into a few other of our Zoos also.
According to the Zoo's website when "Baboons on the Bank" opened in August this year, the 3 females (Jimma, Addis and Tana) relocated from France in May 2013. The 2 males (Femi and Ebano) are brothers who relocated from Zurich in 2011.
Thanks. So the two males are from their original male group of four?
This is fantastic news, I'd never seen a gelada in the flesh until Dudley got their original group and now I'll be able to see two different groups with two different dynamics on every visit!
Makes up for breaking up the tiger duo but at least (as stated by lamna) that we may have the possibility of Sumatran cubs in the future! 
Yes. The original male group of four were brothers Fisseh, Femi and Ebano from Zurich plus an unrelated male who came from Berlin and was subsequently named Bob. I haven't been able to find out what happened to Fisseh and Bob.
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zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I believe they both passed away at Dudley!
Today's visit
The shop and two thirds of the entrance are covered in tarpaulin and scaffolding with lots of work going on. The shop is temporarily operating from the wheelchair hire place.
The bachelor group of Geladas appear to have settled in well and are making a good job of keeping the vegetation down.
The snow leopards were curled up together on one of the top platforms. It was my last opportunity to see the 2 tigers together - Tschuna is due to leave for Yorkshire Wildlife park 'sometime in the next month' with the male Sumatran expected to arrive in November - I gather there will be regular updates on the Zoo's website as dates are finalised.
In the afternoon, both Carpathian lynx were out in full view as was Bart the Geoffroy's cat, and Inca the Asiatic bear was wandering round her enclosure - she looks to be in beautiful condition, despite her age. Even the African Hunting dogs were moving about today (only the second time I've seen them awake!)
The area behind the giraffe house has been cleared of vegetation and tarmac'ed - anyone know what it will be used for?
The porcupines have now moved in with the yellow mongoose. It hasn't yet been decided what will go in their old enclosure in Monkey Tails. There are 2 baby squirrel monkeys in Monkey Tails - they were born less than 2 weeks ago.
The small primate houses appear fully stocked again and this years baby howler monkey (now 6 months old) was moving around the cage independently. The gibbons were having a very active game of tag round their enclosure which was quite nerve-wracking to watch as the youngster lost its grip a couple of times and bounced down through the undergrowth
The new walkway from the penguin pool to the reptile house is great - much better than the steps. Sadly, the reptile house is still virtually empty.
And I saw 3 red squirrels
The shop and two thirds of the entrance are covered in tarpaulin and scaffolding with lots of work going on. The shop is temporarily operating from the wheelchair hire place.
The bachelor group of Geladas appear to have settled in well and are making a good job of keeping the vegetation down.
The snow leopards were curled up together on one of the top platforms. It was my last opportunity to see the 2 tigers together - Tschuna is due to leave for Yorkshire Wildlife park 'sometime in the next month' with the male Sumatran expected to arrive in November - I gather there will be regular updates on the Zoo's website as dates are finalised.
In the afternoon, both Carpathian lynx were out in full view as was Bart the Geoffroy's cat, and Inca the Asiatic bear was wandering round her enclosure - she looks to be in beautiful condition, despite her age. Even the African Hunting dogs were moving about today (only the second time I've seen them awake!)
The area behind the giraffe house has been cleared of vegetation and tarmac'ed - anyone know what it will be used for?
The porcupines have now moved in with the yellow mongoose. It hasn't yet been decided what will go in their old enclosure in Monkey Tails. There are 2 baby squirrel monkeys in Monkey Tails - they were born less than 2 weeks ago.
The small primate houses appear fully stocked again and this years baby howler monkey (now 6 months old) was moving around the cage independently. The gibbons were having a very active game of tag round their enclosure which was quite nerve-wracking to watch as the youngster lost its grip a couple of times and bounced down through the undergrowth
The new walkway from the penguin pool to the reptile house is great - much better than the steps. Sadly, the reptile house is still virtually empty.
And I saw 3 red squirrels
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
I hope the 2 females Giraffes aren't pregnant as the calfs would be hybrids and have no use to any of the breeding programs!
Lamna, you yourself posted this as item #129:
"Went today, apparently both giraffe cows are "probably" pregnant. One should give birth in January/February and the other in March."
I sincerely hope not (but given that WSMP is fine to go with 3 pure-bred Rothschild's females and their hybrid males ..., one wonders??
I know, asked to see if someone can confirm that. I overheard someone say they were probably pregnant.
I was quite surprised to hear they were going to breed Masai/Rothschild with a pure Rothschild. But given how close Masai and Rothschild live to each other in the wild, they've probably been hybridizing for tens of thousands of years.
It does seem a waste though. The bull they have there is pretty small though, as are the cows. Maybe this is the best match they can get for him?
I was quite surprised to hear they were going to breed Masai/Rothschild with a pure Rothschild. But given how close Masai and Rothschild live to each other in the wild, they've probably been hybridizing for tens of thousands of years.
It does seem a waste though. The bull they have there is pretty small though, as are the cows. Maybe this is the best match they can get for him?
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
No it wasn't the best match,2 females were being sourced for them,but that has probably stopped now,thanks to this stupid move by Dudley!
Also where have you got the info that they are Masai x Rothschilds hybrids,as given the collections they came from I would not be at all surprised if they had Reticulated and Angolan blood in them.
I think you would be surprised how little Masai and Rothschild cross bred in the wild,to the point that they are more than likely different species and not sub-species as they are at present!
Research in the wild has demonstrated that giraffes rarely if ever interbreed / hybridize. Several former ssp. of Giraffa camelopardalis like the reticulated giraffe are now considered full species.
Agreed this is a backward move on the part of Dudley Zoo.
It is so damn easy to acquire pure-bred Rothschild's females instead ...
Agreed this is a backward move on the part of Dudley Zoo.
It is so damn easy to acquire pure-bred Rothschild's females instead ...
Really? I wasn't aware of this fact. The only subspecies that I thought was possibly a full species was the Rothschild? What others are now considered full species?
I just overheard someone talking. There was a keeper and two people doing some kind of special tour or keeper for the day thing.
I was looking for Bart but decided to be nosy and listen in.
All of them.
I've given up on taxonomy for the moment. You've got populations that are genetically distinct and haven't really bred for hundreds of thousands of years, but the are perfectly capable of producing fertile offspring.
Species are being merged and split faster than I can keep up with.
Nature really doesn't care about our categories.
Good point about nature not caring. Giraffe taxonomy is still being evaluated because there are a few populations that haven't been genetically analyzed yet, namely the Central African population and the Nubian giraffe from South Sudan. My colleagues at the Giraffe Conservation Foundation are trying to get samples from these areas so that there can be a definitive continent wide genetic assessment to revise the taxonomy with.
My own current opinion based on what we know now is that Thornicroft's is likely a subpopulation of Masai. The Masai, reticulated, Rothschild's, West African, Angolan, and Southern African are genetically isolated and likely species. Hassanin et al. found that the Central African giraffe is genetically distinct, but larger sample sizes and nuclear DNA analysis needs to be done to confirm this.
The area you mentioned is a particular black spot and really after those have been done we can finally draw the line. I read somewhere in a paper though that Thornicroft's remain significantly distinct from others (also somewhere among the GCF papers ..., must check back).
But for us: it remains highly disputable that given the policy in Europe on no hybrids several collections willfully enable mix to continue (of which we still have some 150-200 ..)! I find that the ignoring of that policy is untenable.
Tigers - update
Confirmation on the Zoo's website today that Tschuna will be moving to Yorkshire Wildlife Park to be paired with Vladimir.
The Sumatran male coming to Dudley is Joao - born in Krefeld Zoo, in Germany on March 28, 2012. Joao's two sisters are coming to the UK with him but are going on to Colwyn Bay and the Welsh Mountain Zoo.
Confirmation on the Zoo's website today that Tschuna will be moving to Yorkshire Wildlife Park to be paired with Vladimir.
The Sumatran male coming to Dudley is Joao - born in Krefeld Zoo, in Germany on March 28, 2012. Joao's two sisters are coming to the UK with him but are going on to Colwyn Bay and the Welsh Mountain Zoo.
Would it be usual to have the male quite a bit younger? I thought that was the problem with the lions?