Was Bram a male? So that two males of the dutch group died, not a male and a female as I thought?
Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo News 2014
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Was Bram a male? So that two males of the dutch group died, not a male and a female as I thought?
Yes, he was the one who died not long after they arrived (During a dental operation IIRC)
The original 22 are here:
Chimpanzees of Budongo Trail
2009 Stud book:
http://zoo.dk/ForskningNaturbevarel...r/European_Studbook_Pan_troglodytes_2009.ashx
New Panda update just published:
Iain Valentine, Director of Giant Pandas for the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland, said:
“As you are all probably aware, giant panda Tian Tian is now past her due date and the evidence suggests that this may be bad news. She is still displaying some of the behaviours of a pregnant panda, but the scientific data from the urine analysis of her hormones is becoming more atypical. There is still a chance she will give birth to a live cub as her progesterone levels have not yet returned to base.
“I must stress, as there has been a lot in the news recently about pandas ‘faking’ it, that this was definitely not a pseudo or phantom pregnancy. The results of cutting edge scientific analysis have shown that, across the entire pregnancy, Tian Tian had the profile of a pregnant panda likely to carry to full term. We are working with the of the very best panda experts in the world and they were all in agreement. The scientific data extracted by analysing hormones and proteins in her urine was a text book example of what we wanted to see. However, at the very end of last week there were one or two results from the hormone tests that were atypical and that was the first sign something might be amiss. Although it is still very new, the scientific data does suggest that the last point she should have gone into labour was over the weekend, unfortunately this did not happen. “
RZSS experts continue to monitor Tian Tian closely and we will know more towards the end of the week as her cycle comes to an end either way. During this time the panda enclosure remains closed.
Edinburgh Zoo - Tian Tian Giant Panda Pregnancy Statement
Iain Valentine, Director of Giant Pandas for the Royal Zoological Society of Scotland, said:
“As you are all probably aware, giant panda Tian Tian is now past her due date and the evidence suggests that this may be bad news. She is still displaying some of the behaviours of a pregnant panda, but the scientific data from the urine analysis of her hormones is becoming more atypical. There is still a chance she will give birth to a live cub as her progesterone levels have not yet returned to base.
“I must stress, as there has been a lot in the news recently about pandas ‘faking’ it, that this was definitely not a pseudo or phantom pregnancy. The results of cutting edge scientific analysis have shown that, across the entire pregnancy, Tian Tian had the profile of a pregnant panda likely to carry to full term. We are working with the of the very best panda experts in the world and they were all in agreement. The scientific data extracted by analysing hormones and proteins in her urine was a text book example of what we wanted to see. However, at the very end of last week there were one or two results from the hormone tests that were atypical and that was the first sign something might be amiss. Although it is still very new, the scientific data does suggest that the last point she should have gone into labour was over the weekend, unfortunately this did not happen. “
RZSS experts continue to monitor Tian Tian closely and we will know more towards the end of the week as her cycle comes to an end either way. During this time the panda enclosure remains closed.
Edinburgh Zoo - Tian Tian Giant Panda Pregnancy Statement
Panda Puzzle.
Yes, but its just as likely it could be another failure then. I can never figure out why it is so difficult. Here's a female that has bred before( at least once) before coming to Edinburgh. By natural mating- or AI? I often wonder if the lack of normal/natural mating has something to do with it- the problem preventing a natural mating seems to be usually that the two animals are not exactly synchronised and so may not be fully receptive to each other, despite the signs they give. In the wild a female coming into oestrus sits in a tree while several males drawn by her calls, wait and/or squabble on the ground below and keep climbing up to have a look at her. Finally when she's ready she comes down...
With only usually single pairs in zoos usually its not possible to replicate that, but I feel if they could somehow,(more males?) it might encourage more success/compatability which would allow more natural matings to happen. Of course if she really becomes pregnant(and then reabsorbes it again), then the type of fertilization becomes rather irrelevant, but can they really say that 100%, for either last year or this year? It would also be interesting to know how often natural matings between Zoo pairs result in cubs, compared with the AI success rate. The current system seems to waste a lot of the potential breeding years of a female Panda- like this one. Of course there is still the slim chance she is pregnant but it seems more and more doubtful as the days pass.
Yes, but its just as likely it could be another failure then. I can never figure out why it is so difficult. Here's a female that has bred before( at least once) before coming to Edinburgh. By natural mating- or AI? I often wonder if the lack of normal/natural mating has something to do with it- the problem preventing a natural mating seems to be usually that the two animals are not exactly synchronised and so may not be fully receptive to each other, despite the signs they give. In the wild a female coming into oestrus sits in a tree while several males drawn by her calls, wait and/or squabble on the ground below and keep climbing up to have a look at her. Finally when she's ready she comes down...
With only usually single pairs in zoos usually its not possible to replicate that, but I feel if they could somehow,(more males?) it might encourage more success/compatability which would allow more natural matings to happen. Of course if she really becomes pregnant(and then reabsorbes it again), then the type of fertilization becomes rather irrelevant, but can they really say that 100%, for either last year or this year? It would also be interesting to know how often natural matings between Zoo pairs result in cubs, compared with the AI success rate. The current system seems to waste a lot of the potential breeding years of a female Panda- like this one. Of course there is still the slim chance she is pregnant but it seems more and more doubtful as the days pass.
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Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
This is another year when this zoo have officially stated that the female giant panda MAY be pregnant, and just like the others previously it looks unfortunately that it will come to nothing, Next year?, well perhaps but I think the public will get a bit sick of Edinburgh Zoo telling the old, old story.
That is a good point. From what I know of the Chinese breeding 'stations' there are usually a number of Pandas present, so keeping pregnant females seperated at a distance might seem difficult.
Of course other Western Zoos with more conventional male/female housing have experienced both success and failure.
Jackwow
Well-Known Member
I've been getting this impression for years. It seems every time I go back there is less than before and what I find particularly annoying is when two different enclosures have the same species in them. A couple of years ago I visited and there were 3 different species in two different locations each.
The Margay is currently on show. It's in the enclosures between the Sun Bears and Magic Forest where I've also seen Marbled Polecat in the past. It seemed to be confined to indoors and was relaxed and showy.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before or how permanent the situation is.
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before or how permanent the situation is.
It used to be in there before they took it off show
Article about "Pandanomics":
Zoos weigh up the costs of China's 'pandanomics' | World news | The Observer
Zoos weigh up the costs of China's 'pandanomics' | World news | The Observer
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
An interesting article. It is stated that the giant pandas certainly paid their way in the first two years of their arrival, despite the £600,000 per annum rent, but during their time at the zoo the cost of their bamboo has increased from £70,000 per annum to £100,000. For the third year there has been no baby, sired by natural or artificial means, this of coarse would have a great increase in visitor numbers but as yet, this has not unfortunately been the case, I find the situation Edinburgh now find themselves in to be worrying in that as time progresses further, without a baby public interest will decline even further in the remaining time of this ten year rental agreement, combined with rising costs the article states it could result in financial ruin for this zoo, if this is the case, Edinburgh Zoo have placed themselves in a very precarious financial position, pinning everything on the birth of a giant panda cub, hopefully it will be better luck next year, but meanwhile they still have to pay £12,000 per week in rent to the Chinese for the next six years.
Something seems fishy with the following quote from the article:
"According to Valentine, the Edinburgh pair have more than paid their way since they arrived in 2011. "Zoo numbers have increased by four million people in two years," he said."
That implies they're getting two million extra visitors a year which would seem patently untrue whichever way things are spun. I'm fairly sure there's considerably less than one million visitors (can't find a supporting source at the moment.
It's interesting to consider the following financial figures from the Scottish Charities Commission website summaries:
2009: £300k surplus
2010: £500k deficit
2011: £700k deficit
2012: £1.5m surplus!
2013: Not filed on site yet (which is a shame as they'd make very interesting reading regarding the financial success, or otherwise, of the Panda rentals.
It's interesting to note that there's not been any significant noticeable improvements or new exhibits (Meerkat enclosure aside) since the Penguin enclosure was (very well) re-furbished over two years ago. If they are running a surplus from the Pandas it's not immediately obvious what the spare money's being spent on.
"According to Valentine, the Edinburgh pair have more than paid their way since they arrived in 2011. "Zoo numbers have increased by four million people in two years," he said."
That implies they're getting two million extra visitors a year which would seem patently untrue whichever way things are spun. I'm fairly sure there's considerably less than one million visitors (can't find a supporting source at the moment.
It's interesting to consider the following financial figures from the Scottish Charities Commission website summaries:
2009: £300k surplus
2010: £500k deficit
2011: £700k deficit
2012: £1.5m surplus!
2013: Not filed on site yet (which is a shame as they'd make very interesting reading regarding the financial success, or otherwise, of the Panda rentals.
It's interesting to note that there's not been any significant noticeable improvements or new exhibits (Meerkat enclosure aside) since the Penguin enclosure was (very well) re-furbished over two years ago. If they are running a surplus from the Pandas it's not immediately obvious what the spare money's being spent on.