Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo News 2020
- Thread starter Quincey
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What is actually the plan with the chimp troupe in Edinburgh Zoo?
(It is very large and contains both pure West African and mixed hybrid chimps (probably all neutered / vasectomised)
I believe all the hybrids have long been vasectomised/contracepted so would presume the focus remains breeding from the West African individuals, which have been there for some years now, though only two(?) young have so far been born.
The daily 'Tropicaria Zoo blog' mentions Edinburgh as saying they may have to reduce the bird and primate collections further to save more cost. Wonder what species might be involved? Do they still have the group of Guinea baboons? Perhaps they might be one candidate?
That is to be precise the background to my question: For all the years of holding a colony of chimps a meagre output! What is holding them down? They held 3-5 West African males don't they already apart from the new immigrant, right (I think 2 had been neutered, but not King Louis, Rene and Velu)?
I would imagine any reduction in primate species would be from the Monkey House which is due to close and be re-developed. They currently have Gelada baboons which I don't imagine will leave. In regards to bird departures they might look to make room in Brilliant Birds, as they are bringing in Sloths next year which will likely be housed within the Brilliant Birds exhibit.
If the plan is the same as it was last time I visited (three or so years ago) then it’s as follows:
There are currently 17 animals at Edinburgh. Of these, 10 (six males, four females) are verus, one (male) is nominate and the remaining six (two males, four females) are subspecies hybrids. The three non-verus males (David, Qafzeh and Liberius) have all been vasectomised, and the four hybrid females (Lucy, Eva, Kilimi and Edith) are all on birth control.
As for the actual verus animals, two of them (one male and one female, Velu and Masindi) are below breeding age. The other eight constitute three females (Sophie, Lianne and Heleen) and five males (Louis, Rene, Paul, Frek and Maadili).
Out of these three females, the zoo have only managed to successfully breed from Heleen (the mother of both the young verus animals). Lianne has had a couple of miscarriages but no successes, and Sophie has yet to produce any offspring and isn’t getting any younger (she would be in her late thirties at this stage).
As for the males, Paul and Frek have been vasectomised due to their shared father’s genes being massively overrepresented in the studbook (although one of these two males is the father of the male youngster, his vasectomy has since been ‘reapplied’). Louis is a much older male at this stage (he’s in his mid forties), which leaves only Rene with a decent shot at breeding so this is why Maadili who is currently separate has been brought in.
Provided Maadili is introduced successfully, it’s probably advisable for Edinburgh to obtain new verus females as well to increase breeding chances within the group, although you never know this new male may work his magic on the two that have yet to successfully produce offspring.
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To make it a little easier, I list the individuals (as per the 2014 studbook):
P.t. verus (5.4): F Pearl (b. S.Leone 1969), M King Louis (wb S.Leone 1976, your male in his forties, I guess), F Sophie (TNO b. 1981), F Lianne (TNO, b. 1989) and F Heleen (TNO, b. 1991), M Rene (TNO, b. 1993), M Paul (TNO, b. 1993, neutered), M Freek (TNO, b. 1993, neutered), M Velu (b. 2014 Edinburgh MULTIxHeleen).
P.t. troglodytes (1.2): F Cindy (b. W.Africa 1964, contracepted), F Emma (b. Whipsnade 1981, contracepted), M Qafzeh (b. Edinburgh 1992 MULTIxEmma).
Hybrids (3.4): M David (neutered), F Lucy (contracepted), F Eva (contracepted), F Kilimi (b. 1992 Edinburgh, contracepted), F Edith (contracepted), M Kindia (neutered) and M Liberius (neutered).
Source: https://www.zoo.dk/files/stambog_chimpanser_zoo_2014.pdf
I gather from your transcript:
A) all verus mentioned above should still be alive today and now includes 2 infants by XY (mother Heleen?)?
B) both troglodytes females have been transferred or have passed away in the meantime?
C) one hybrid has been transferred or more likely has passed away in the meantime?
P.t. verus (5.4): F Pearl (b. S.Leone 1969), M King Louis (wb S.Leone 1976, your male in his forties, I guess), F Sophie (TNO b. 1981), F Lianne (TNO, b. 1989) and F Heleen (TNO, b. 1991), M Rene (TNO, b. 1993), M Paul (TNO, b. 1993, neutered), M Freek (TNO, b. 1993, neutered), M Velu (b. 2014 Edinburgh MULTIxHeleen).
P.t. troglodytes (1.2): F Cindy (b. W.Africa 1964, contracepted), F Emma (b. Whipsnade 1981, contracepted), M Qafzeh (b. Edinburgh 1992 MULTIxEmma).
Hybrids (3.4): M David (neutered), F Lucy (contracepted), F Eva (contracepted), F Kilimi (b. 1992 Edinburgh, contracepted), F Edith (contracepted), M Kindia (neutered) and M Liberius (neutered).
Source: https://www.zoo.dk/files/stambog_chimpanser_zoo_2014.pdf
I gather from your transcript:
A) all verus mentioned above should still be alive today and now includes 2 infants by XY (mother Heleen?)?
B) both troglodytes females have been transferred or have passed away in the meantime?
C) one hybrid has been transferred or more likely has passed away in the meantime?
FYI, this male is one of the original Edinburgh group who tested 'pure' having come from the wild originally. I believe there was another that has since died.
As to the expansion of the group, I think the problem is well highlighted by SJ's breakdown of the breeding potential of each pure 'verus' member-particularly the females. Potential expansion of group size being governed largely by the number of breeding females, so with only one apparently fertile female it is hampered at present. I presume over time with the possible infusion of new 'verus' females this could change,
I would think the policy of contraception of the verus individuals as well as trying to keep the entire mixed group of verus / troglodytes / hybrid together might actually have prevented any meaningful and successful breeding till date. Just an assumption of mine ... but remember that contraception as a technology for birth control does have its down sides too! Would you not agree?
A) not all. Pearl has since died. Velu is one of the two infants I mentioned, the other is Masindi who was born a year or two ago. Maadili is the new male who is currently separate (born 2010 in Copenhagen).
B) yes. Cindy has died, Emma is now at La Palmyre
C) yes, Kindia has died.
@ShonenJake13, thanks for your comments.
I am inclined to think the current constellation of the group might in some way prevent any breeding in the group from really taking off. The big part of the founder verus group originated from TNO and probably was together there before transferring to Edinburgh Zoo. On another level, the strong man / social structure already in place at Edinburgh Zoo makes it challenging to introduce other immigrant chimps into the community. The new Kobenhavn male at 10+ is yet not a mature male able to take over a group, is it not (males usually tend to be between 20-25 when leading a group)?
I do believe that in chimp social structures males born into a natal group will remain within their community whereas most young adolescent females will join other groups when maturing.
Link: Female chimps with a powerful mother are more likely to stay at home - WSTale.com
I am inclined to think the current constellation of the group might in some way prevent any breeding in the group from really taking off. The big part of the founder verus group originated from TNO and probably was together there before transferring to Edinburgh Zoo. On another level, the strong man / social structure already in place at Edinburgh Zoo makes it challenging to introduce other immigrant chimps into the community. The new Kobenhavn male at 10+ is yet not a mature male able to take over a group, is it not (males usually tend to be between 20-25 when leading a group)?
I do believe that in chimp social structures males born into a natal group will remain within their community whereas most young adolescent females will join other groups when maturing.
Link: Female chimps with a powerful mother are more likely to stay at home - WSTale.com
The TNO group originally consisted of five males and six females when they arrived (Bram, Rene, Claus, Paul, Frek, Pearl, Eva, Sophie, Lianne, Heleen and Edith) - these lived in separate groups at Beekse Bergen for a time before moving over to Scotland after being introduced to each other out there.
I don’t think the intention is for Maadili to lead the group - the current leader is actually the nominate male Qafzeh. I think he is being introduced as a future breeding male and as another competitor to increase Rene and Louis’s mating drives. With David and Louis both in their mid forties, it’s probably wise to bring in new males to strengthen the group, especially with such a strict hierarchy (Qafzeh and Liberius ruled with iron fists when I was last at the zoo).
It is indeed the case that usually females move in both chimpanzees and bonobos, so it would not be unnatural for new verus females to arrive at some point.
Male Qafzeh is a P.t. troglodytes, so if he is the leader ..., is that not preventing a good P.t. verus line from developing. Would it not be advisable to then remove him from the equation rather than waiting for any of the 2 other males to vie for leadership (which currently they seem unable to do)?
Do you know who has been confirmed as the sire of F Heleen's offspring?
Do you know who has been confirmed as the sire of F Heleen's offspring?
Qafzeh has been the leader since just before the Dutch chimps arrived, so it has never really been a problem with regards to who gets to mate who. Subordinate males always sneakily mate with females, it’s why paternity testing is so hard with chimpanzees and bonobos.
I don’t think anyone has been confirmed as Masindi’s sire yet, but my bets are on Rene.
*cough* Ongoing exorbitant cost of the Giant Pandas *cough*
They got rid of these - sending some back to Paris, and others forming the foundation of the Yorkshire Wildlife Park group - several years ago. As noted recently elsewhere on the forum, they have got rid of a lot of primate species in the last decade or so - 15 taxa in total, I believe.
Offhand I suspect they are most likely to get rid of those species in the Monkey House (Drill, Diana Monkey, Crowned Lemur and Yellow-breasted Capuchin), and also perhaps the Grey-handed Douroucoulis in the "Magic Forest" exhibit.
If I was to hazard a guess as to what will leave, all the current monkey house animals with the exception of the drills and possibly the diana monkey. As to other animals, maybe some Gelada, Geoldi's monkey and the cottontop tamarin. Bird losses will probably include penguins, pelicans, flamingoes and softbills. Knowing Edinburgh, only the endangered and rare ones will leave the collection.
Personally I think the sloths will be added to the Magic Forest
Personally I think the sloths will be added to the Magic Forest
The Royal Zoological Society of Scotland (RZSS) is celebrating the birth of two critically endangered wildcat kittens at Edinburgh Zoo.
Staff at the wildlife conservation charity say the kittens, a boy and a girl, will be named in the coming weeks:
Critically endangered wildcat kittens born at Edinburgh Zoo | Edinburgh Zoo
Staff at the wildlife conservation charity say the kittens, a boy and a girl, will be named in the coming weeks:
Critically endangered wildcat kittens born at Edinburgh Zoo | Edinburgh Zoo
Update on the Budongo Conservation Field Station:
Budongo Conservation Field Station Update | Edinburgh Zoo
Budongo Conservation Field Station Update | Edinburgh Zoo