Edinburgh Zoo Edinburgh Zoo News 2023

[Cat-Man]

Any thoughts on what animal it could be? My money's on sloth bears as they are currently only held in one UK collection. It honestly could be anything really.

Them or asiatic black bears would fit the existing theming quite nicely. Brown bears potentially an option as well.

That being said, I’m inclined to think it might not be a bear at all and we’re all just being too narrow in our thinking!

 

[Alwaysevergreen]

When I done the Panda experience back in March, Asiatic Black Bears was one that was put forward, and there was known of a couple that needed rescuing, but from what I was told later on, that ship had sailed for now.

I asked if they would move the Sun Bears or look at Sloth Bears and the keeper said, that the Sun Bears would be out of that exhibit in seconds and it would need a whole new fencing put in, to make it Sun Bear proof and that, that was similar for Sloth Bears. They seemed to imply, what would move in to that area, would have to work with the exhibit as it is with very few changes.

It is to be used as a holding exhibit for Koala and Gelada whilst their exhibits are revamped and redone, so it's gonna be 2025 most likely before the exhibit has a new species. I think given that Five Sisters have stepped forward to rescue the Asiatic Bear that was being talked about earlier in the year, then focus has probably moved away from bears for now.

Hopefully, it will be a statement species, but it's hard to think what they could ever bring in to replace Pandas.

 

[Pertinax]

They seemed to imply, what would move in to that area, would have to work with the exhibit as it is with very few changes.

It is to be used as a holding exhibit for Koala and Gelada whilst their exhibits are revamped and redone, so it's gonna be 2025 most likely before the exhibit has a new species. I think given that Five Sisters have stepped forward to rescue the Asiatic Bear that was being talked about earlier in the year, then focus has probably moved away from bears for now.

Hopefully, it will be a statement species, but it's hard to think what they could ever bring in to replace Pandas.

Yes, Pandas seem a lot easier to contain than other bears like Sun or Sloth. Sunbears are notorious escapers I know. They can dig like crazy for a start.

Agree with last sentiment.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

When I done the Panda experience back in March, Asiatic Black Bears was one that was put forward, and there was known of a couple that needed rescuing, but from what I was told later on, that ship had sailed for now.

I asked if they would move the Sun Bears or look at Sloth Bears and the keeper said, that the Sun Bears would be out of that exhibit in seconds and it would need a whole new fencing put in, to make it Sun Bear proof and that, that was similar for Sloth Bears. They seemed to imply, what would move in to that area, would have to work with the exhibit as it is with very few changes.

It is to be used as a holding exhibit for Koala and Gelada whilst their exhibits are revamped and redone, so it's gonna be 2025 most likely before the exhibit has a new species. I think given that Five Sisters have stepped forward to rescue the Asiatic Bear that was being talked about earlier in the year, then focus has probably moved away from bears for now.

Hopefully, it will be a statement species, but it's hard to think what they could ever bring in to replace Pandas.

I would like to see something like Gorillas, which would also be beneficial to the zoo by filling the hole in its image and appeal left by the departure of the Pandas, however there is less options if the Panda enclosures are going to be left as they are for inhabitants, but the soon to be adjacent (assuming the Zebras are still moving out?) large paddock/area will not have the same constrictions, and the two exhibits could be linked with new inhabitants, which could be quite exciting.

 

[Cat-Man]

I would like to see something like Gorillas, which would also be beneficial to the zoo by filling the hole in its image and appeal left by the departure of the Pandas, however there is less options if the Panda enclosures are going to be left as they are for inhabitants, but the soon to be adjacent (assuming the Zebras are still moving out?) large paddock/area will not have the same constrictions, and the two exhibits could be linked with new inhabitants, which could be quite exciting.

Would they do well at that part of the site? It’s quite exposed IIRC?

 

[GeeZee]

Then there was me at one point optimistically thinking we could find out before 2024, hopefully the wait is worth it, it might have to be for Edinburgh Zoo to get the best out of this situation though.

I do wish they wouldn’t keep these things such hushed up (and this isn’t the only example) I don’t see what they are hoping to gain , surely it would generate hype for the zoo if they announced another big draw animal?

I do wonder if they don’t even know themselves what is going to be there, as another user eluded too the ship has sailed for an asiatic bear (the one they were hoping to obtain went to another zoo), it’s a bit of a lost opportunity.

Personally it would be good to see another bear, but now I think it may be something entirely different, but the longer they needlessly prolong it they may be risking actually disappointing people.

On a side note I’ve been following the updates of Yang Guang & Tian Tian online from China (if you look hard enough you can find them there’s been at least 3 now) and it’s good to see them looking happy and getting used to their new homes.

Their enclosures look quite big with a pools and they have enrichment & also treats, sometimes I do wonder why at EZ they didn’t get more of that sort of thing.

 

[Alwaysevergreen]

I do wish they wouldn’t keep these things such hushed up (and this isn’t the only example) I don’t see what they are hoping to gain , surely it would generate hype for the zoo if they announced another big draw animal?

I would imagine because plans change, and if they need to be planning 18 months to 2 years down the line, because they need to make use of the exhibit for other animals whilst those animals exhibits are being renovated, it would be absolutely stupid for them to say, right in 2 years time this exhibit will house .....

What happens if the studbook changes their mind and relocates an animal to another collection, or there is hold ups importing the animal from Europe. Unless you are a private zoo and effectively acquiring animals from importers, or foreign zoos etc, where there isn't much risk of things changing then it would be absolute madness to announce animals 18 months to 2 years in advance, as if it doesn't happen, you will have people wanting to know why and so on.

So saying nothing, until it's happened, or in situ is by far the best way to do things.

Anyone remember Exotic Zoo and the Penguins? They tell everyone that's what they are getting, design an exhibit for it, and then Malaria and Bird Flu come along, and Penguins they were hoping to get suddenly won't happen, and they can't source anymore!

Same with other zoos who have said they were getting certain animals in 2023, yet it hasn't happened for a number of reasons, and been delayed. Doesn't mean it won't happen in time, but people will still ask when's this coming? when's that coming? So, it's far better to say nothing until the animals are on their way, or even at the zoo. That way you can't have backlash, let downs or problems.

So whilst you say, what are they hoping to gain? Perhaps look at it as, why create a situation that they need not create? Why generate hype, over something which could easily be delayed, go wrong or change?

What Edinburgh are doing, is the most professional way to do things, keep it quiet until it's in the bag, to suggest anything else, can only lead to problems down the line.

 

[GeeZee]

I would imagine because plans change, and if they need to be planning 18 months to 2 years down the line, because they need to make use of the exhibit for other animals whilst those animals exhibits are being renovated, it would be absolutely stupid for them to say, right in 2 years time this exhibit will house .....

What happens if the studbook changes their mind and relocates an animal to another collection, or there is hold ups importing the animal from Europe. Unless you are a private zoo and effectively acquiring animals from importers, or foreign zoos etc, where there isn't much risk of things changing then it would be absolute madness to announce animals 18 months to 2 years in advance, as if it doesn't happen, you will have people wanting to know why and so on.

So saying nothing, until it's happened, or in situ is by far the best way to do things.

Anyone remember Exotic Zoo and the Penguins? They tell everyone that's what they are getting, design an exhibit for it, and then Malaria and Bird Flu come along, and Penguins they were hoping to get suddenly won't happen, and they can't source anymore!

Same with other zoos who have said they were getting certain animals in 2023, yet it hasn't happened for a number of reasons, and been delayed. Doesn't mean it won't happen in time, but people will still ask when's this coming? when's that coming? So, it's far better to say nothing until the animals are on their way, or even at the zoo. That way you can't have backlash, let downs or problems.

So whilst you say, what are they hoping to gain? Perhaps look at it as, why create a situation that they need not create? Why generate hype, over something which could easily be delayed, go wrong or change?

What Edinburgh are doing, is the most professional way to do things, keep it quiet until it's in the bag, to suggest anything else, can only lead to problems down the line.

That is true & I’m not bashing them, as you know Edinburgh Zoo is my favourite (and still is) but sometimes I feel they could communicate better especially with the public and their members.

That does include more broader marketing for example as good as it was, their tv series only ran for 2 seasons and it was only really on BBC Scotland, yet compare that to Chester, longleat zoo , monkey world and others that market their respective series worldwide on Amazon prime and mainstream tv.

That is beside the point but it’s a point I’ve made before and that’s a missed trick on their part I find. It is somewhat concerning to me that we are no further forward in knowing the future of the panda exhibit than we did 2 years ago, despite it would seem back then that they were going to tell us imminently.

It’s the same for a few other things that I feel have been miscommunicated, for example I was hoping to “adopt” the pandas last year as I knew it was their final year but they removed the option before I could do it, and I know I wasn’t the only person who experienced that, ultimately it would of been more money for the zoo.

 

[Alwaysevergreen]

That is true & I’m not bashing them, as you know Edinburgh Zoo is my favourite (and still is) but sometimes I feel they could communicate better especially with the public and their members.

That does include more broader marketing for example as good as it was, their tv series only ran for 2 seasons and it was only really on BBC Scotland, yet compare that to Chester, longleat zoo , monkey world and others that market their respective series worldwide on Amazon prime and mainstream tv.

That is beside the point but it’s a point I’ve made before and that’s a missed trick on their part I find. It is somewhat concerning to me that we are no further forward in knowing the future of the panda exhibit than we did 2 years ago, despite it would seem back then that they were going to tell us imminently.

It’s the same for a few other things that I feel have been miscommunicated, for example I was hoping to “adopt” the pandas last year as I knew it was their final year but they removed the option before I could do it, and I know I wasn’t the only person who experienced that, ultimately it would of been more money for the zoo.

The problem with your final point, is they DID NOT know when the Pandas would be going back. At one stage they were told as early as the end of October. So if they offer a yearly adoption and they went before the end of the year, you will find there would be some people who would complain they didn't get value for money, and want part refunds etc. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean others wouldn't. Therefore, they would find it easier not to offer adoption packages for the final year.

TV Programs have to be popular. I don't disagree the ones on RZSS were good, but they are small collections, not really expanding and growing, so a 3rd or 4th series, may have been repetitive, and viewing figures dictate how long a program runs for.

I enjoyed big week at the Zoo that Channel 5 ran for 2/3 years. Even that has not been commissioned again.

Lets not forget, even how big Chester is, eventually the production team felt SLOTZ had run it's course and a number of the keepers stopped enjoying doing it, even left the collection, as they always got approached in and out of work, and some people don't want that. The production team are now doing SLOTSP at Knowsley, how long that will run who knows.

Monkey World has been done to death, and do they even record new series anymore? Longleat didn't have an Xmas special this year, they only done repeats. The likes of Kate Humble have even said they are unsure how much longer they want to do it.

I guess that everything has it's time, and maybe RZSS didn't capitalise on the program they had, when they had it.

Myself personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Packham and his Step Daughter ended up doing a "sanctuary" program around Wildheart and other sanctuaries, and I suspect at some point with the continuous press coverage, a program on the Aspinall Parks is surely only a matter of time away.

I think the biggest issue is, a lot of zoos do communicate well, but because we are people with a stronger interest than most, we perhaps want more than the normal person. Most zoos decide to publicise births, but not deaths due to the backlashes they get, it's understandable, but not ideal for those with a vested interest like ourselves.

But I don't think all plans should be out in the open. Granted, Zoo enthusiasts like ourselves always want to know what's going on, but do the general public? Sometimes there is a case of it being too much information.

I'm sure a lot of things are just a case of not really in the public interest, and if you want to know stuff, then email the zoo and ask, they can only say they can't disclose. I've found by supporting some zoos, sponsoring animals, exhibits and signing up as corporate patrons at places, I get some letters and emails I didn't get as members, but mostly it's about fundraising and events. It's only at AGM's that plans and ideas seem to be floated, but even then, it's not concrete information. I get some people would like to know everything, but is it really beneficial? Is it a case like you say, Edinburgh is your favourite zoo, and you have a bigger interest than most, so you personally feel communication could be better, because mainly you are looking to know more, whilst the man on the street, may not actually be that interested?

I've got personalised letters to me, about funding for the Koala and Zebra exhibits, it goes into some detail and outlined plans for the exhibits and timelines of events, but the only reason these were passed on? Yes, the charity is looking for funding and it has to appeal to those willing to fund, so you need some disclosure. Some of this information is not made public or freely available, but then I would say it may not be of interest to most people.

I get you're passionate about EZ, but I personally think you're being a little harsh on them.

 

[GeeZee]

The problem with your final point, is they DID NOT know when the Pandas would be going back. At one stage they were told as early as the end of October. So if they offer a yearly adoption and they went before the end of the year, you will find there would be some people who would complain they didn't get value for money, and want part refunds etc. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean others wouldn't. Therefore, they would find it easier not to offer adoption packages for the final year.

TV Programs have to be popular. I don't disagree the ones on RZSS were good, but they are small collections, not really expanding and growing, so a 3rd or 4th series, may have been repetitive, and viewing figures dictate how long a program runs for.

I enjoyed big week at the Zoo that Channel 5 ran for 2/3 years. Even that has not been commissioned again.

Lets not forget, even how big Chester is, eventually the production team felt SLOTZ had run it's course and a number of the keepers stopped enjoying doing it, even left the collection, as they always got approached in and out of work, and some people don't want that. The production team are now doing SLOTSP at Knowsley, how long that will run who knows.

Monkey World has been done to death, and do they even record new series anymore? Longleat didn't have an Xmas special this year, they only done repeats. The likes of Kate Humble have even said they are unsure how much longer they want to do it.

I guess that everything has it's time, and maybe RZSS didn't capitalise on the program they had, when they had it.

Myself personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Packham and his Step Daughter ended up doing a "sanctuary" program around Wildheart and other sanctuaries, and I suspect at some point with the continuous press coverage, a program on the Aspinall Parks is surely only a matter of time away.

I think the biggest issue is, a lot of zoos do communicate well, but because we are people with a stronger interest than most, we perhaps want more than the normal person. Most zoos decide to publicise births, but not deaths due to the backlashes they get, it's understandable, but not ideal for those with a vested interest like ourselves.

But I don't think all plans should be out in the open. Granted, Zoo enthusiasts like ourselves always want to know what's going on, but do the general public? Sometimes there is a case of it being too much information.

I'm sure a lot of things are just a case of not really in the public interest, and if you want to know stuff, then email the zoo and ask, they can only say they can't disclose. I've found by supporting some zoos, sponsoring animals, exhibits and signing up as corporate patrons at places, I get some letters and emails I didn't get as members, but mostly it's about fundraising and events. It's only at AGM's that plans and ideas seem to be floated, but even then, it's not concrete information. I get some people would like to know everything, but is it really beneficial? Is it a case like you say, Edinburgh is your favourite zoo, and you have a bigger interest than most, so you personally feel communication could be better, because mainly you are looking to know more, whilst the man on the street, may not actually be that interested?

I've got personalised letters to me, about funding for the Koala and Zebra exhibits, it goes into some detail and outlined plans for the exhibits and timelines of events, but the only reason these were passed on? Yes, the charity is looking for funding and it has to appeal to those willing to fund, so you need some disclosure. Some of this information is not made public or freely available, but then I would say it may not be of interest to most people.

I get you're passionate about EZ, but I personally think you're being a little harsh on them.

Thanks for the detailed answer by the way, it’s nice to generate some in depth discussion.

I do agree largely, although I would point out, as with other species it is in their policy if for one reason or another an animal is no longer available/ leaves the collection the adopter would be entitled to transfer the remaining days to another animal, if they so wish. I do feel that considering how quickly the tickets sold out for the panda events (less than 2 hours) I would say that indicates a healthy demand in the general public let alone people like us and equally people did complain because they missed out.

I agree about monkey world (I only really watch it when it was monkey business) and I believe it started in the late 90s and is still on today, but no doubt that is an example of a success story when you market a zoo & while Chester is big, smaller zoos such as Twycross (which could be a bit more comparable) have had their own documentaries too.

I do feel that, for example in the case of Bristol Zoo, bad marketing strategy was a large part of its decline, ultimately I want EZ to succeed and punch above its weight if I’m honest.

Generally EZ are quite responsive though, at least as much as they can anyway, when you do approach them directly to be fair, and the AGM’s do provide an ample forum for that especially.

Overall though the “average joe” is particularly interested in seeing big draw animals such as pandas , elephants, rhinos etc - I do try and interact with people as much as I can but that is generally the feedback I do get from people.

 

[Lafone]

The problem with your final point, is they DID NOT know when the Pandas would be going back. At one stage they were told as early as the end of October. So if they offer a yearly adoption and they went before the end of the year, you will find there would be some people who would complain they didn't get value for money, and want part refunds etc. Just because you wouldn't doesn't mean others wouldn't. Therefore, they would find it easier not to offer adoption packages for the final year.

TV Programs have to be popular. I don't disagree the ones on RZSS were good, but they are small collections, not really expanding and growing, so a 3rd or 4th series, may have been repetitive, and viewing figures dictate how long a program runs for.

I enjoyed big week at the Zoo that Channel 5 ran for 2/3 years. Even that has not been commissioned again.

Lets not forget, even how big Chester is, eventually the production team felt SLOTZ had run it's course and a number of the keepers stopped enjoying doing it, even left the collection, as they always got approached in and out of work, and some people don't want that. The production team are now doing SLOTSP at Knowsley, how long that will run who knows.

Monkey World has been done to death, and do they even record new series anymore? Longleat didn't have an Xmas special this year, they only done repeats. The likes of Kate Humble have even said they are unsure how much longer they want to do it.

I guess that everything has it's time, and maybe RZSS didn't capitalise on the program they had, when they had it.

Myself personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Packham and his Step Daughter ended up doing a "sanctuary" program around Wildheart and other sanctuaries, and I suspect at some point with the continuous press coverage, a program on the Aspinall Parks is surely only a matter of time away.

I think the biggest issue is, a lot of zoos do communicate well, but because we are people with a stronger interest than most, we perhaps want more than the normal person. Most zoos decide to publicise births, but not deaths due to the backlashes they get, it's understandable, but not ideal for those with a vested interest like ourselves.

But I don't think all plans should be out in the open. Granted, Zoo enthusiasts like ourselves always want to know what's going on, but do the general public? Sometimes there is a case of it being too much information.

I'm sure a lot of things are just a case of not really in the public interest, and if you want to know stuff, then email the zoo and ask, they can only say they can't disclose. I've found by supporting some zoos, sponsoring animals, exhibits and signing up as corporate patrons at places, I get some letters and emails I didn't get as members, but mostly it's about fundraising and events. It's only at AGM's that plans and ideas seem to be floated, but even then, it's not concrete information. I get some people would like to know everything, but is it really beneficial? Is it a case like you say, Edinburgh is your favourite zoo, and you have a bigger interest than most, so you personally feel communication could be better, because mainly you are looking to know more, whilst the man on the street, may not actually be that interested?

I've got personalised letters to me, about funding for the Koala and Zebra exhibits, it goes into some detail and outlined plans for the exhibits and timelines of events, but the only reason these were passed on? Yes, the charity is looking for funding and it has to appeal to those willing to fund, so you need some disclosure. Some of this information is not made public or freely available, but then I would say it may not be of interest to most people.

I get you're passionate about EZ, but I personally think you're being a little harsh on them.

Given Aspinall is back in the press again with the daughter playing with gorillas and another set of articles on the elephant rewilding initiative I would also not be surprised to see a TV show on that. Depending on how it is made it could spark some further debate and public anxiety on keeping elephants which I think other zoos could struggle to cut through. The Aspinall 'everything belongs in the wild apart from the things you pay to see in my zoos which I continue to captively breed' may appear to me to be utterly hypocritical, but it is fast media worthy, even if it turns into clickbait.

I agree with you on the Edinburgh publicity front. There's little point in releasing lots of information way in advance on what might join a collection as it may not join and people won't be that interested outside regular visitors or zoo enthusiasts. A marketing department with a smallish budget is going to want to target immediate ticket sales, events and getting footfall, not teasing species that may never arrive and will be 'another panda disappointment'.