Elephant Imports From Zimbabwe?

I'm actually not speaking of one group specifically. Several facilities have contributed to reproductive health of the u.s. elephant population, i.e. Riddles, Ringling, CB, in a positive way. Not just dumped old stock. Several of the receiving facilities have done nothing or worse with the acquisition of these elephants, i.e. NC, Baltimore, Fresno. Hence staying in a private situation may be better for said elephants
 
I'm actually not speaking of one group specifically. Several facilities have contributed to reproductive health of the u.s. elephant population, i.e. Riddles, Ringling, CB, in a positive way. Not just dumped old stock. Several of the receiving facilities have done nothing or worse with the acquisition of these elephants, i.e. NC, Baltimore, Fresno. Hence staying in a private situation may be better for said elephants

I am not saying they did not positively contribute to the population (although its problematic to view all these facilities as part of the SSP population). Yet the fact stands that most elephants to ever leave those facilities were post-reproductive females being retired at zoos like Little Rock. The circuses while they existed were focused on keeping up reproduction to have a substantial enough herd to tour, now that’s obviously not the case for Ringling anymore.

Riddles should not be lumped with the others in my opinion. First of all its elephants came to zoos like the NC Zoo and Maryland zoo more than a decade ago, as part of an effort to reduce the size of their collection. Right now they are done to 2 elephants I believe. So for them it was simply downsizing at their facility, which led to these zoos reaping the benefits of reproductive age elephants.

I can speak for the NC Zoo, in saying that the zoo has tried hard to successfully breed its younger animals. First of all they keep the females with both bulls pretty much around the clock, and one of the bulls pretty regularly tries to breed the females. The other has not, yet the zoo has attempted AI in the past. Now they are planning on bringing in a new bull at some point this year. This is far more than most zoos have done. Baltimore has also tried to breed their female for a while now with their resident bull, although that obviously has not worked out so far. Luckily Samson is approaching breeding age and will hopefully be able to carry the genetic line on.
 
Both the African and Asian SSP's here in North America are absolutely pathetic embarrassments, and a good portion of the facilities that are participating in them are as well.

This stupid "american philosophy" for managing elephants is counter productive and damaging to the population. Keeping the same bulls at the same facilities for years and years, slow and stretched out introductions, disgustingly bad founder representation, MASSIVE calving intervals for cows, and more. Its absolutely disgusting. Its absolutely horrible for the animals.

Founder bulls that are proven breeders, but no surviving offspring, wasting away at facilities with no breeding cows. Breeding genetically valuable animals with the most prolific line in NA. Cows having their first calves in their mid to late teens. Keeping bulls in social isolation except for breeding. Facilities being greedy and moving old, socially stunted "herpes tank" cows into successful breeding cows. Facilities retaining animals due to sentimental value. Its absolutely ridiculous.

There are only 3 facilities in all of North America that would do what I consider to be a good job. African Lion Safari, Houston Zoo, and, at least in the recent past, Ringling. Calves every 3-4 years from each cow, first calves at 10-12 years old, social integration of the bulls.

Personally, I think North America should receive no no imports. Period. If they can't manage with what they have, and need to rely on new animals, they shouldn't have them period! NA still has around 17 different founding bull lines, and a similar amount of cow lines for Asians. Should be good for the next 100 years. Why import more animals that will just be going into non productive situations? Especially when most of the bulls are proven breeders, but almost half of them aren't in breeding situations, most of them un or under represented founders?!

African SSP is even worse. They're basically ignoring the entire original population in favor of the Swaziland Imports. Whats wrong with the population stemming from older imports? I'm sure if they weren't being mismanaged to extinction they could breed very well and contribute valuable genetics.
 
Do the San Deigo Safari park not do a good job breeding the African species?

They were initially doing very well, however have lagged the past several years. After they split the herd and sent Mabu to Reid Park in 2012, breeding proceeded to a complete stop with non-breeder bull Msholo. After waiting 4 years, they finally got another bull, but instead of a completely new male, brought back Mabu for some reason? He got two cows pregnant and went back to Arizona. Now they have two captive bred cows in their early teens never pregnant, a third 8 years old at the perfect age for first pregnancy, and three mature cows all ready for breeding, but no bull?? Especially since they transferred out all the young bulls, they're more ready than ever for a new proven bull, but for some reason they wait? They're getting sloppy. They've only produced 2 calves in the past seven and a half years!
 
Yet the fact stands that most elephants to ever leave those facilities were post-reproductive females being retired at zoos like Little Rock. The circuses while they existed were focused on keeping up reproduction to have a substantial enough herd to tour, now that’s obviously not the case for Ringling anymore.

Riddles should not be lumped with the others in my opinion. First of all its elephants came to zoos like the NC Zoo and Maryland zoo more than a decade ago, as part of an effort to reduce the size of their collection. Right now they are done to 2 elephants I believe. So for them it was simply downsizing at their facility, which led to these zoos reaping the benefits of reproductive age elephants.

I can speak for the NC Zoo, in saying that the zoo has tried hard to successfully breed its younger animals. First of all they keep the females with both bulls pretty much around the clock, and one of the bulls pretty regularly tries to breed the females. The other has not, yet the zoo has attempted AI in the past. Now they are planning on bringing in a new bull at some point this year. This is far more than most zoos have done. Baltimore has also tried to breed their female for a while now with their resident bull, although that obviously has not worked out so far. Luckily Samson is approaching breeding age and will hopefully be able to carry the genetic line on.

I'm not sure this gives enough credit to the donors or the animals donated. Ringling has contributed quite a few breeding specimens to AZA facilities. Granted there seem to have been some males like Casey and Colonel who never seemed to produce in Texas, but the fact is that at the very least, Ringling has given breeding age Romeo to Fort Worth, Doc to Syracuse, Sunny and Rudy to Columbus, and sent Asha on a breeding trip to Tulsa in an attempt to utilize Sneezy's under-represented genes. They offered cows of reproductive age to NZP, but were rebuffed because the Smithsonian didn't think that a national zoo should be enmeshed in controversy. Certainly parent company Feld Entertainment has no more financial reason to invest in its elephant program, but they had cooperated extensively with AZA institutions with both research and actual animals well before Ringling's demise. And I wouldn't be so quick to minimize Riddles' donation, either. The earlier donations of Africans came at a time when the AZA was recommending that institutions keep only one species; I thank that's the real reason for Riddles' donations, not that they needed to downsize. Why would an elephant sanctuary need to downsize to two elephants?! I think they made an incredible contribution to Columbus by loaning the magnificent Hank at a time when the SSP was having difficulty even getting a fertile bull for all 11 breeding zoos.

Many of us watching may be impatient and frustrated by the silence shrouding the Ringling herd. There should still be a significant number of breeding-age specimens at Ringling, but we've herd precious little except the loss of Nate and Mike to EEHV and the loss of the elderly cow who accompanied Asha to Tulsa (Tonka?) and died there. They don't publicize births or deaths, so we truly don't have any idea whether there have been births--four cows from the Blue Tour were AI'd in 2017 right before the elephants came off your. In addition, quite a few of the older girls could now be gone. Mysore would be the second oldest elephant in America at 74, but we simply have no way of knowing. By the time we do discover what the current population is, it could differ drastically from what we last knew four years ago. This is THE huge wildcard in the state of US captive breeding success.

But let's not minimize in any way the very significant contributions Ringling has made to our SSP zoos. As a profiting-driven corporation, Feld certainly could have sold its animals off to the highest bidder--and I'm sure there are circuses, individuals, and zoos abroad that would have snapped them up at prices our zoos may not have been able to afford. Both with indefinite loans and a great deal of reproductive technology and personnel they shared over the 20 years of their successful breeding program, Ringling has contributed a LOT to the future of the NA Asian population.

Yes it's taken a lot of time to get suitable animals in the right places--and it's indeed frustrating that years and years of potential breeding have been wasted. But however bad this situation is, we owe a lot to Riddle's and Ringling or we would have had fewer than half of our US births in recent years.
 
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Ringling deserves some credit, yet I morally can’t condone a lot of their practices. I have chosen to stay away from bringing Ringlings management style and practices into this, although considering how much credit they are getting I think its important to actually look at the care these elephants receive. Pulling elephants from their mothers at age 3 or 4. Chaining elephants in their barns in Florida overnight .Bulls that seem to spend their entire lives in 4,000/5,000 sq foot barren yards (and are of little use to a circus, hence several were transferred to AZA zoos). Use of the bullhook (which for me is not the problem), the problem is that their was video showing it being used improperly as too beat the animals. With all this I am not saying they are the only place to do this, yet I think we should refrain from viewing them as a shining example of how to care for elephants in captivity. If this is how we keep the North American population alive, then I don’t really know if it was worth it.

I stand by what I said about Riddles. Riddles is not really an elephant sanctuary, it is more just a facility that is owned by individuals who simply love elephants. As well a sanctuary would probably not be breeding its animals. The owners from what I know are getting older so they wanted to downsize their collection to be more manageable. So now they are left with 2 ex-circus asian elephants I believe. They used to have about 10 on site.

They couldn’t really sell them in the way you said. Any sale domestically or internationally would require US Fish and Wildlife Service approval due to the Endangered Species Act. This approval would involve a public comment process and basically would have so much publicity, that it likely wouldn’t happen. AZA zoos would never be seen paying a circus for its elephants, the optics would just be horrible and have prolonged negative exposure. Theirs not much domestic market for elephants as well , circuses are on the decline as many state continue to ban them.

Lastly I do fault the AZA and SSP organization in many ways. I believe that the population could have been sustainable and can be sustainable without factoring in non-AZA facilities yet zoos have gotten complacent and keep using this false belief that they need to grow the breeding population, rather than breed the elephants they currently have.
 
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