whipsnade already has two matrilines so they do not need third.
Chester Zoo Elephant Riva Hi Way has died
- Thread starter Ryley
- Start date
whipsnade already has two matrilines so they do not need third.
I am glad someone finally understood my point! I have been saying this on the UK Asian elephant thread! Lol.
Wow, terrible news to hear regarding Riva. Chester have had the absolute worst luck when it's come to their elephant herd in the last few decades. My thoughts are with all of her keepers.
It's imperative Chester acquire additional cows if they wish to continue with elephants. Older, non breeding cows would really have limited value to the herd, especially in the long term so I doubt Chester would go that route. A mother/daughter dyad, with a daughter around Indali's age makes the most sense, but not sure how many theoretical options there are for this at the moment (if any).
Also to Maya, depending on her physical health, she could theoretically still be moved however I doubt Chester will do so considering there isn't the reason to at the moment. She's a very submissive cow herself, so shouldn't have many issues with any new individuals arriving.
It's imperative Chester acquire additional cows if they wish to continue with elephants. Older, non breeding cows would really have limited value to the herd, especially in the long term so I doubt Chester would go that route. A mother/daughter dyad, with a daughter around Indali's age makes the most sense, but not sure how many theoretical options there are for this at the moment (if any).
Also to Maya, depending on her physical health, she could theoretically still be moved however I doubt Chester will do so considering there isn't the reason to at the moment. She's a very submissive cow herself, so shouldn't have many issues with any new individuals arriving.
I’ve followed Chester Zoo’s elephant herd for a number of years and to say it’s been one thing after another is an understatement. With every death, there’s been light at the end of the tunnel; when calves have died from EEHV, a new pregnancy is announced; or a breeding female dies with the assurance of juvenile females in the herd to carry on succession within the herd.
Now the only hope of building up the herd in the current state rests on an eight year old female; and that’s assuming she’s successful in producing one or more female calves (that in turn, survive to reproductive age).
It’s beyond doubt additional breeding females are needed at this point to ensure succession. Given the growing emphasis on succession through matrilines, introducing unrelated females is far from desirable; but the alternative is far bleaker imo.
Now the only hope of building up the herd in the current state rests on an eight year old female; and that’s assuming she’s successful in producing one or more female calves (that in turn, survive to reproductive age).
It’s beyond doubt additional breeding females are needed at this point to ensure succession. Given the growing emphasis on succession through matrilines, introducing unrelated females is far from desirable; but the alternative is far bleaker imo.
that concern is valid but you also pointed out the cow is only 8 years old. The concern is support during pregnancy and birth. I am not sure how Maya would be supportive?
I haven't been following Chester for a long time like many of you, but when I visited in April, one of the highlights was the active elephant herd and it was such a impressive way to start off the facility. It was only the second time I'd seen such a large, active group and such a treat, and one of the many reasons I looked forward to returning to Chester someday. I am heartbroken to see how much this group has been devastated since my visit.
It is dreadful news of course. The top priority, which will be on-going, if it is not already complete, will be to determine the cause(s) of poor Riva's symptoms and her death. Plus continuing close monitoring of the health of Maya, Anjan and Indali. In the longer term, provided the coast is clear, there will have to be some moves of course. The choice will depend on the availability of animals, the capacity of other collections and negotiations with the studbook keeper.
There are several possibilities. Move Anjan and bring in another cow and then a bull - hoping to re-establish a breeding herd. Move Indali and bring in a couple of young bulls to form a bachelor herd eventually. Move both Anjan and Indali and bring in a couple of older cows to become a retirement home. Or go out of elephants completely, at least temporarily: that would allow modification/extension of the elephant house to accomodate a new herd (African or Indian) or for a different species to attract visitors - I can imagine the basic structure of the building adapted for a troop of gorillas.
There are several possibilities. Move Anjan and bring in another cow and then a bull - hoping to re-establish a breeding herd. Move Indali and bring in a couple of young bulls to form a bachelor herd eventually. Move both Anjan and Indali and bring in a couple of older cows to become a retirement home. Or go out of elephants completely, at least temporarily: that would allow modification/extension of the elephant house to accomodate a new herd (African or Indian) or for a different species to attract visitors - I can imagine the basic structure of the building adapted for a troop of gorillas.
Retirement home is a possibility, but not something feasible in the long term. A bachelor facility is an interesting idea, but not sure how equipped Chester are to hold bulls in their current setting. I also struggle to see any facility that will benefit from taking both Maya and Indali on (I would be surprised if they were sent to separate facilities).
In saying that, I believe it's been mentioned Anjan is already destined for another facility. But with them being otherwise just down to two cows, there may be more inclination to retain him in the mean time before any other moves can be made.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I would think moving Indali would be their last resort. Moving her creates far more negative scenarios than positive. Aside from that, she's the last female in the "Hi Way" family that Chester has boasted for years. Doubtlessly they'd wish to look for scenarios that would allow Indali to stay and breed. Are there any experienced mothers in the European population that have male calves currently/have no daughters?A female who has only bore sons would be easier to give up than a mother-daughter duo.
What Indali needs is support. She could easily be breeding now, but the likelyhood of her bearing and successfully raising a calf under current conditions isn't fabulous. With an experienced cow to guide her, she could likely be having calves in 3-4 years time.
I actually thought of the Emmen cows. All of those cows but one that EAZA doesn’t want to be breeding because of the male calves. I didn’t think it is possible though so I didn’t say anything until you posted. It would have been great to have a couple experienced Emmen cows move to Chester and breed for hopefully a female calf with a different bull than at Emmen. It’s all a thought that likely won’t be realistic.
Ryley
Well-Known Member
They will be waiting for the autopsy results most likely.
Frankie_number_1_fan
Well-Known Member
I imagine they'll wait as long as possible to make this public, considering how recently they lost Sundara.
This has been the herd’s 12th loss in 15 years:
1.0 Raman (2006) Died 2009
0.1 Sheba (1956) Died 2011
1.0 Nayan (2010) Died 2013
0.1 Jamilah (2011) Died 2013
1.0 Hari (2012) Died 2015
0.1 Bala (2013) Died 2015
0.1 Nandita (2015) Died 2018
1.0 Aayu (2017) Died 2018
0.1 Sithami (1997) Died 2018
0.1 Thi Hi Way (1982) Died 2020
0.1 Sundara (2004) Died 2024
0.1 Riva (2020) Died 2024
I really hope with the progress made on the EEHV vaccine; and some potential imports, that they’re able to rebuild from this latest loss. I can only imagine what an emotionally exhausting time this has been for the staff, who have done everything they can to ensure the health and welfare of the herd; but been met with unimaginable adversity.
I imagine they may also be utilising this time to decide what the future of Chester's herd will look like. It's a burning question that not only us, but most if not all of Chester's visitors will be wondering now with them down to just three elephants.
Obviously I don't expect anything concrete, but for example, they may confirm the fact that they will indeed attempt to continue breeding elephants, or simply just presenting us with the options they have at the moment.
ZooNews2024
Well-Known Member
Looking in from the outside as someone who has no specific interest in elephants, this record looks difficult to defend. Regardless of the investment, or advertising value, or staff commitment, any organisation has to reach a point when it must admit defeat.
To be fair, Sheba was an elderly elephant; and given Thi Hi Way had arthritis, she did well to reach the age she did. The deaths of Sithami and Sundara were unfortunate, but isolated incidents that were unforeseeable.
The other eight deaths were that of calves and juveniles aged between 1-4 years; with all but the latest publicly confirmed as EEHV - a devastating virus that has afflicted elephants around the globe (both in captivity and in the wild). Chester’s proactive testing (especially in recent years) has been commendable and early diagnosis can undoubtedly be credited with saving Indali’s life. With that triumph (and vaccine trials underway in the US), there’s hope the tide is turning despite the latest tragic setbacks.
I do believe elephants are in Chester’s future; but the zoo will no doubt give an indication of that in the coming weeks and what those options may look like. Anything until then is speculation.
Given the treatment for EEHV that saved Indali's life, does that mean it is more likely she is now 'safe' from another attack, or is it more that they know how to treat it if she has one?
I agree that I can't really see Chester without elephants. I'm no Elephant expert but Indali seems their main hope for the future and moving her seems the worst option. From all the discussion and suggestions it seems clear that adding a mother/daughter dyad with a daughter of similar age to her would seem the most 'popular' option amongst commentators here.
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