Taronga Zoo elephants are in

hey guys-i just re-read my earlier post and i need to clarify i think. when i reviewed the proposal about perth and aucklands breeding project im 99% sure it indicated a natural mating-obviously involving an animal transaction and quarantine.
by the way, the vet team at dubbo and their reproductive bioligist are the colaborating with perth zoo to breed their elephants. the dubbo specialist pinpointed perth's females reproductive cycle and the german team recently attempted AI. i did post this info somewhere else.
 
elephant breeding

My understanding from previous discussion with Auckland Zoo was that they "discovered" that they would have to do major strengthening for the elephant enclosure if they were to accept a bull elephant .
They would rather do this later on -- in the event of successful AI and the birth of a baby male . Hence their current ideas of AI programme .

I am not impressed with how they have handled their part of the regional elephant breeding programme -- They have "discovered" nothing .

If there is going to be any actual sexual breeding of the elephants , the younger elephant will be sent to Perth , and they would have to do something for her female elephant buddy , -- and they have been together for many years......
If Auckland had only upgraded the elephant enclosure a year or two ago , they could have possibly got a new elephant by now . The current enclosure is a little larger than Sydneys new one , and if they relocate the zoopoo factory , they could enlarge it a little bit more ....
 
I am so excited, everyone at school comes upto me and says they are in cocos, and im sating i heard way before you u dont need to tell me , hehe i follow this like a religion.

as for aucklands eles, they did originally have an additional female commings , she was in the thai camp and everything, but she developed behavioural problems and it would have jepordised the free contack polocy in auckland. she was returned to annother camp.
 
Aucklands elephants

Thanks Zooboy , that will certainly help to explain the Auckland zoos reasonings to back down . I have not heard back from them yet , but your explanation is certainly plausible .

Auckland Zoo takes pride in their relationship with its 2 female elephants . It probably has the most "close contact with the elephants" than any other zoo
This comes with a raft of potential issues , but fortunately nothing serious has yet emerged . Alot of visitors have a fond regard of Auckland Zoo ( including some well known zoo haters , who admit that this zoo is "different" ) and their very close contact and open gate policy with its two largest animals .
The last thing the zoo wants is a stroppy elephant !
Kashin and Burma are not "tame" , and the keepers are VERY strict about contact . But they have a good rapport with Kashin and Burma , and are willing to try any new ideas for behavioural enrichment with very close keeper/elephant contact . When one of the elephants left the zoo one night there was no resistance on the animals part to return to the zoo the next morning .
If there is ANY hint of behavioural problem with any elephant at the zoo ( current or future ) the zoo will seriously consider a "no contact" policy with the elephant concerned . But so far that hasnt happened .
 
auckland seem to have had a few problems with animal escapees over the last couple of years!!

from memory the original plan was for 9 elephants into the region. 3 females for melbourne, 4 females for taronga and one male and one female for auckland. auckland backed out, one female as Zoo_Boy said was "dropped" from the plan and taronga decided to take on the male (no doubt there where some questions about how they expected to participate in a breeding program with no male elephant to breed from! i doubt they ever expected of breeding the younger females with heman).

i suppose with all the "new" elephants being at least somewhat aquainted with eachother (indeed they may very well be closely bonded) there is always a opportunity for smoothly run integration between melbourne and sydney's animals should the breeding program require it.

and that may be required sooner than expected since i still have my reservations about the age gap between the sydney animals!!!!
 
well, i reakon guys that melbourne will breed first, heman will be very horny and see 3 new girls, close to breeding age (does any 1 actually know the melbourne eles ages) and will got a it like a bull at a gate, or actauuly a bull at some fine ladies.

i also beleive taronga may do A.i on there 2 oldest (both 13) and breed Gung (the male aged 5) with the 2 others ( 5 and 6 ) . i have seen numerous tele intervirews that state that guy cooper wants the first ele calf "on the ground" with in 3 years.

this means he will have to do A.i, as the maths dont add up, gung will breed when hes about 14, so same age as other gals, and the older 2 may have buy that time had at least 2 calves each (heres hoping)

as for the story of the male originally to auckland, its silly , i mean pat not offending you, but as he is 5, the 2 gals there are what over 20, one is really much older aint it, which meeans add say 10 years for him to mature, that makes the 20 yr old (guess) about 30, so now 2 old to breed.

i also reackon, that taronga will start a program for example, with dubbo,

1. they will selct gender of calves, so they as i said breed 4 claves out of 2 older before gung reaches maturity, and 1 of those calves will be male, and sent to dubbo, with other calves that shall be born, ( female) and theres a second herd established. based on genetics and diff donor males for A.i

2. the old asians at dubbo, i hate to say it, may only have 10 yrs left in them at max ( in mind they are both over 50), so this frees up space for a new herd.
 
The Australasian Elephant Herd - The New Commers

The Melbourne Zoo Elephant Herd

The three female elephants destined to make Melbourne their home are: –.

Num-Oi (4 years old),
Dokkoon (12 years old)
Kulab (5 years old).

Joining;

Male
Bong- Su ( aprrox 30 years old - arived in melbourne in 1977)
Female
Meka- pah ( aprrox 30 years old - arrived in melbourne in 1978)


The Taronga Zoo Elephant Herd

The four female and one male elephants destined to make Taronga their home are: –.

Female
Pornthip (13 years old)
Pak Boong (13 years old)
Tang Mo (6 years old)
Thong Dee (5 years old)

Male
Gung (5 years old)



Interesting facts from melbourne zoo elephant fact sheet

REPRODUCTION
The female Asian Elephant reaches sexual maturity at 10 years of age. Bulls
reach maturity at the same age, but due to competition from older bulls
seldom begin mating before 30 years. Mating occurs between a bull who is
'in musth' (a period during which the musth glands located on each side of
the male elephant's head become active) and a cow who is at a receptive.
 
The female ele auckland rejected and then melb considered taking but then they rejected also. The official word is she had "behavioral problems" but what she did was knock down 5 zoo staff not I might add the Thai mahouts. We picked her up and brought her back here and she was given a new mahout and she did not show any of these BP. So I was asked to work her to help find out what had happened she was fine but then knocked me down as well. What she had learnt while in quarantine is you can knock down white people and get away with it. She has since been retained and is now fine. Except she also displayed bad steriotypical behaviours after being in quarantine. Which is swaying from side to side and did not do this before she went to quarantine.
 
kool so did the oz zoos get any eles off you, i dont no if you do t5his sorta thing, and sorry if this offends your sanctuary, not meant to be harmful
 
wow, and were u in support of them comming then, and would you prefer to see them at a place like dubbo?
 
A.I. at perth zoo

THE first attempt at artificial insemination of an Asian elephant in Australia has failed, putting pressure on Sydney and Melbourne zoos to use the technique with their Thai elephants.

Zoos say that rather than being used to attract customers, which would be a breach of international wildlife trade law, the eight Thai elephants will form the nucleus of a breeding herd for conservation.

But no Asian elephant has yet been successfully bred in Australia.

The difficult technique was tried with a bull, Putramas, and a cow, Permai, both aged 16, at the Perth Zoo, it was learned yesterday.

However, the procedure had failed to achieve a pregnancy, a Perth Zoo spokeswoman said.

"AI with elephants is a very invasive procedure that can require very heavy-handed tactics," said the RSPCA's

The above I copied from an article dated 31st
july from the age ( do a google news search)

A couple of comments from RSPCA etc that really get to me. One The first attempt didn't work so we shouldn't try again (if at first you don't succeed, never do it again!) Even in cattle it can take several tries.
two: A heavy handed procedure - hard on the animals. Is it? The US zoos do it regularly without problems.
three: No Australian zoo has ever bred an elephant so we shouldn't try now. Well if that is the criteria we must go by. nothing new would ever occur!


ARGGGGGGG!!!!!

This whole elephant issue is REALLY creating a bad impression to me of the RSPCA et al .
 
I dont know if you all are aware but the regulations in Thailand state that any of its elephants that leave and go to another country are still owned by the Kingdom of Thailand and any offspring produced by any of those eles have to come back to Thailand. If they are not sent back then a fine has to be payed by the zoo that has them.
 
personally, i think our zoos are placing far too much emphasis on AI.

if animals behavioural, social, environmental and physical needs are met, they generally breed on their own accord. sometimes however two animals simply don't dig eachother the way we would like them to. however should you have a large enough of a regional population this can usually be overcome. though i don't agree with everything the RSPCA states, AI in elephants in particular is a rather tricky and sometimes "invasive" technique. should the zoos have sourced "experienced" animals like they initially stated was their intention, then it is really should be only a last resort.
 
I also find it interesting that Perth zoo is attempting AI. Perhaps the zoos are starting to feel pressure from RSPCA etc to prove that elephants can be bred in Australia?
 
i too feel that if the zoos focus on meeting the welfare needs of the individual elephants & integrate the elephants with breeding potential (such as melbourne zoo's Bong-Su) into a more normal group scenario than breeding could occur.
a lot of information would have been learnt about the elephants at perth through this procedure. likewise, taronga zoo had quite a long running ai program with its giraffe herd which never produced any calves but they did discover a lot of biological/reproductive data than at some point in the future could prove important for either the in-situ or ex-situ management of this species.
anyone who would like to read an interesting article on breeding giant pandas in american zoos and how those efforts are being linked to china should pick up the august edition of nat. geo. its a good read & supplies some eye-opening financial statistics regarding american zoo involvement too!!!
 
I dont know if you all are aware but the regulations in Thailand state that any of its elephants that leave and go to another country are still owned by the Kingdom of Thailand and any offspring produced by any of those eles have to come back to Thailand. If they are not sent back then a fine has to be payed by the zoo that has them.
Click to expand...
Are you sure this is correct Michelle? My understanding is that these animals are a gift from the people of Thailand to the people of Australia. There isn't anything about this on the official permits either.

Certainly, the regional breeding plan for the species includes specific recommendations for any potential offspring to be moved and paired within Australasia, and this document was produced specifically as part of the import conditions.
 
nah zoopro, michelle i am sure is right, they are from thailand as a gift, but somehow they remain property, but this is what the zoos are saying, i have read there was alot of money excahnged
 
In the contract it states that Thailands elephants remain the property of the Kingdom of Thailand. The elephants were not a gift. That is just what the zoos like to say. Because they want to be seen to buying endangered species.
 
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