Gigit
Well-Known Member
From Paignton's Zoo News, Summer 2010: "Gay was born in 1970 and came to Paignton Zoo on 4 April 1977 from Longleat Safari Park. She had previously been with Fawcett's (sic) Circus in Ireland."
Colchester Zoo Elephants
- Thread starter sasha242
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From Paignton's Zoo News, Summer 2010: "Gay was born in 1970 and came to Paignton Zoo on 4 April 1977 from Longleat Safari Park. She had previously been with Fawcett's (sic) Circus in Ireland."
Well it's nice to know that. So I guess it's more trawling around wondering what happended to Moto (who could still be alive?), please keep us updated on the information that you find out.
I will let you know if I find out anymore about Moto, one thing I have discovered while looking into this is that another ex Hoffman elephant, Duchess, was the Duchess who lived at Lambton Lion Park with Millie in the seventies, I used to visit regular as a teenager, on one visit their keeper allowed my girlfriend to get on Duchess's back, she would have been used to this being an ex circus elephant, and a marvellous sight it was, happy days
Thanks for this information, Fawcett's Circus, I think they mean Fossett's Circus, an Irish circus although related to the English Fossett's, so Gaye came from Longleat in 1977, so therefore cannot be the elephant from Sir Robert Fossett's,
During the 1970s, the site at Dreamland was leased to several people who would have had access to elephants. According to my notes:
1969-70 Dick Chipperfield
1971 Bernard Bale and Al Verlaine
1972 Frank Farrar
1973 Hoffmans
1974 Scotia (Don Robinson)
1975 Mike Frewer
It closed at the end of the 1975 season.
Both Maxi (1.0 E.m.) and Womba (0.1 L.a.), who usually performed as a pair for several years on different circuses (lastly on Jimmy Chipperfield's Circus World and the Blackpool Tower), retired to Longleat in 1979. They were both known to be difficult animals. The African bull Hercules took Maxi's place thereafter.
Ricki del Oro was presenting Maxi on his own circus (Circus del Oro) in 1975 then on Circus Courtney the following year.
According to my notes, there were 1.6 E.m. and 0.1 L.a. on Fossett's show in 1979 presented by George Biddal/Freeman and Brenda Haeni. The following year the act only included 5 E.m. presented alternately by Hagen Reichstag and Robert Fossett Jnr with Haeni (Since George Biddal died early this year). In 1981 the act included six animals with a further two not performing.
1969-70 Dick Chipperfield
1971 Bernard Bale and Al Verlaine
1972 Frank Farrar
1973 Hoffmans
1974 Scotia (Don Robinson)
1975 Mike Frewer
It closed at the end of the 1975 season.
Both Maxi (1.0 E.m.) and Womba (0.1 L.a.), who usually performed as a pair for several years on different circuses (lastly on Jimmy Chipperfield's Circus World and the Blackpool Tower), retired to Longleat in 1979. They were both known to be difficult animals. The African bull Hercules took Maxi's place thereafter.
Ricki del Oro was presenting Maxi on his own circus (Circus del Oro) in 1975 then on Circus Courtney the following year.
According to my notes, there were 1.6 E.m. and 0.1 L.a. on Fossett's show in 1979 presented by George Biddal/Freeman and Brenda Haeni. The following year the act only included 5 E.m. presented alternately by Hagen Reichstag and Robert Fossett Jnr with Haeni (Since George Biddal died early this year). In 1981 the act included six animals with a further two not performing.
Yes the 1979 show would include eight elephants in the show, i.e. the main troupe of six, also the act consisting of the African and the young bull Bobby with the spotted horse, but in the stables there would be ten, the afore mentioned plus Tina and the other young Asian cow, I would think that this elephant must have departed from Fossett's at the end of 1979, early 1980, the African must have also died at this time.The Fossett poster for 1979 states "Sir Robert Fossett's mighty herd of ten Indian and African Elephants, In 1980 the act was presented by the German trainer Hagen Reichstag, five in number, Mahala excluded, he left mid season and the act was presented for the rest of the year by Mr. Bailey, while at Aberdeen however he presented Bobby the bull only as the cows were on location, dressed as mamoths for the film "Quest for Fire"Robert Fossett made his debut with the elephants at David Smart's Super Circus at the Christmas season 1980/81, again five in number, however Mahala was re introduced to the act for the 1981 season. The six elephants went to Belle Vue, Manchester for the last circus at the King's Hall, however the act was cut to two, Dum Dum and Sara, follwing the elephants panicking at the dress rehersal, for this Christmas season, Brenda Hani returned to the act after retiring after the 1981 season, her late husband Julius had trained these elephants and she continued to work with them, every inch the showgirl, with George Biddell(Freeman), Hagen, Mr. Bailey and later his nephew Robert. Sir Robert Fossett's was always my favourite circus, and their elephant act was always my favourite act, for the record one Fossett elephant is still alive, Minnie,who in her younger day appeared on a regular basis in the Dickie Henderson Show, in black and white television in those days!
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DanKoehl
Well-Known Member
Thanks to this comment, I realized that I had mixed up irish Fossets Bros circus, and UK Sir Robert Fossets circus in the elephant database.
Im now forking Fossets Grand Circus in four circuses, and starting to clean up, any comments, corrections highly welcome!
Fossets Grand Circus
1. All elephants ever located at Sir Robert Fossetts Circus in United Kingdom
2. All elephants ever located at Fossett Brothers Circus (Fossetts Circus) in Ireland
3. All elephants ever located at Little Tom Fossett's Circus in United Kingdom
4. All elephants ever located at Ringlands Circus (Long Tom Fosset) in United Kingdom
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Hi there fellow zoochaters!
I, for the first time, recently visted Colchester zoo and was very impressed! Its a great zoo with a great species collection! Not one negative view! However one thing did seem to stand out for all the wrong reasons. While viewing the elephants, zola (one of the elephants) was continuously swaying thoughout my visit, which i understand is a way for creatures to cope with stress/boredom. I also saw Opal swaying abit to, not as much as Zola though. Tanya and Opal were just standing at the gate of there enclosure while Opal was swaying and Tanya just standing there. They didnt move from the gate from one public feed to the next! I know this could be out of anticipation but for 2 and a bit hours! Tanya also kept on lifting her right forward leg up, to tale the pressure of her foot, which ive seen before but not so much of! Literally it was every 2 minutes! There enclosure is a nice size and even had a pool but there was, from what i could see, no enrichment toys out for them.. Why? or anything which would keep them intressed apart from the elephant encounter that afternoon. Which lasted about 20 minutes with no public speech! During the Elephant encounter in the barn, about twenty minutes before it started, they took Tanya and Opal in and put them in the stalls on the far left hand side, where Opal was still continuously Swaying side to side in the stall. Why do they put them in here 20 minutes before the public display? And do they let them back out again after the public encounter? Zola, who was brought in the barn about 10 minutes later, was put in the fenced of area with Tembo (who was already in the barn before tanya and opal were) insted of being kept with the girls in the stalls. Why is this? if im honest she was distant from the others all day! Im sure they have a very nice life at Colchester zoo but it just put a dampner on my visit and there the main reason why i visited!
I, for the first time, recently visted Colchester zoo and was very impressed! Its a great zoo with a great species collection! Not one negative view! However one thing did seem to stand out for all the wrong reasons. While viewing the elephants, zola (one of the elephants) was continuously swaying thoughout my visit, which i understand is a way for creatures to cope with stress/boredom. I also saw Opal swaying abit to, not as much as Zola though. Tanya and Opal were just standing at the gate of there enclosure while Opal was swaying and Tanya just standing there. They didnt move from the gate from one public feed to the next! I know this could be out of anticipation but for 2 and a bit hours! Tanya also kept on lifting her right forward leg up, to tale the pressure of her foot, which ive seen before but not so much of! Literally it was every 2 minutes! There enclosure is a nice size and even had a pool but there was, from what i could see, no enrichment toys out for them.. Why? or anything which would keep them intressed apart from the elephant encounter that afternoon. Which lasted about 20 minutes with no public speech! During the Elephant encounter in the barn, about twenty minutes before it started, they took Tanya and Opal in and put them in the stalls on the far left hand side, where Opal was still continuously Swaying side to side in the stall. Why do they put them in here 20 minutes before the public display? And do they let them back out again after the public encounter? Zola, who was brought in the barn about 10 minutes later, was put in the fenced of area with Tembo (who was already in the barn before tanya and opal were) insted of being kept with the girls in the stalls. Why is this? if im honest she was distant from the others all day! Im sure they have a very nice life at Colchester zoo but it just put a dampner on my visit and there the main reason why i visited!
Does anyone happen to know the zoos short term/long term plans for the elephants? Do they plan to attempt any breeding?
Their group of 4 now seems to be split into pairs with 1:1 housed together in the part of the exhibit that is mostly off show and 0:2 together. Not sure why they are kept like this.
(Sorry for the questions...just visited Chester and was amazed and impressed with their Asian Elephant family so got me thinking about Colchesters group)
Their group of 4 now seems to be split into pairs with 1:1 housed together in the part of the exhibit that is mostly off show and 0:2 together. Not sure why they are kept like this.
(Sorry for the questions...just visited Chester and was amazed and impressed with their Asian Elephant family so got me thinking about Colchesters group)
@Badgerman91, I am afraid that the outlook for African elephant breeding in Colchester is not a good one anymore any time soon.
A proven bull and the last successful birth a long time away in 2004, a male named Jambo to now deceased mother Rosa (she died in November 2007). The other succesful birth was in 2002 to female Tanya, a bull named Kito (by AI with bull Tembo), whereas the female Zola had a dead calf in April 2008 (this .... after 2 unsuccesful ones previously) and finally first-timer female Opal (at 27) followed in March 2010 (which ended in a dead calf in the womb). It has been rather silent since then.
A proven bull and the last successful birth a long time away in 2004, a male named Jambo to now deceased mother Rosa (she died in November 2007). The other succesful birth was in 2002 to female Tanya, a bull named Kito (by AI with bull Tembo), whereas the female Zola had a dead calf in April 2008 (this .... after 2 unsuccesful ones previously) and finally first-timer female Opal (at 27) followed in March 2010 (which ended in a dead calf in the womb). It has been rather silent since then.
Thankyou Kifaru for answering my question.
Just seems such a shame that they seem to have let it all go stagnant after there earlier successes with the two calves. Makes me wonder what the future holds for their elephants.
Just seems such a shame that they seem to have let it all go stagnant after there earlier successes with the two calves. Makes me wonder what the future holds for their elephants.
Last year they did try AI but it didn't work.
Did they use Tembo as the male and what female elephant did they attempt AI on? Are there any plans to attempt this again soon?
I don't know if @robmv or @TARZAN are still around here, but I found some new information that might pertain to comments made back in 2011.
I only focus on American elephant history now (it's complicated and time-consuming enough in itself) but working to track the history of the Smart elephants purchased by Ringling and the Togni elephants leased in 1990-1991, I found some articles about a group of elephants imported to Italy and the UK in 1972. I'll try to post them here but I posted them on my Facebook page earlier this month with comments looking for help. I need to be more active on this site!
The first article 01/10/1972 says 22 elephants arrived to Italy with 14 unloaded at the Naples Zoo and the remaining 8 continuing on to Germany
The second 01/07/1972 says 14 arrived to England with 12 to the Billy Smart Circus and 2 more to Fossetts.
I don't know if these were part of the same group of 22. The dates "might" correspond but the numbers do not. I now the identity of the 12 Smart elephants but not the 2 Fossett elephants. It's not particularly relevant to my records unless those Fossett elephants somehow came to the United States but still interesting. I do believe some of those Italian arrivals were sold to Togni who came over the Ringling Blue tour as mentioned above.
More information and commentary on the link below.
ShowMe Elephants
I only focus on American elephant history now (it's complicated and time-consuming enough in itself) but working to track the history of the Smart elephants purchased by Ringling and the Togni elephants leased in 1990-1991, I found some articles about a group of elephants imported to Italy and the UK in 1972. I'll try to post them here but I posted them on my Facebook page earlier this month with comments looking for help. I need to be more active on this site!
The first article 01/10/1972 says 22 elephants arrived to Italy with 14 unloaded at the Naples Zoo and the remaining 8 continuing on to Germany
The second 01/07/1972 says 14 arrived to England with 12 to the Billy Smart Circus and 2 more to Fossetts.
I don't know if these were part of the same group of 22. The dates "might" correspond but the numbers do not. I now the identity of the 12 Smart elephants but not the 2 Fossett elephants. It's not particularly relevant to my records unless those Fossett elephants somehow came to the United States but still interesting. I do believe some of those Italian arrivals were sold to Togni who came over the Ringling Blue tour as mentioned above.
More information and commentary on the link below.
ShowMe Elephants
