Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden Emi Passed Away

[taun]

Cincinnati will NOT breed Succi with her Brother or father, there are other plans for the Sumatran Rhinos in the USA , much better than Inbreeding, which isn't better than no breeding.

You going to explain further?

 

[Zebraduiker]

You will hopefully understand I can't do.

 

[taun]

You will hopefully understand I can't do.

I understand, I just hope that any plans to do anything are not delayed due to red tape.

 

[Pertinax]

Cincinnati will NOT breed Succi with her Brother or father, there are other plans for the Sumatran Rhinos in the USA , much better than Inbreeding, which isn't better than no breeding.

They must involve new animals being brought into the captive population. At present the only three potential males for Suci would be her own father and brother in the US and her other brother(Andalas) in Way Kambas. I do not include the unrelated Torgamba who unfortunately seems unable to father young now.

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

if only the Sungai Dusun Rhino center was succesful. That way the gene pool would be broader and the captive population would have a back up in case somethign terrible like this happened.
It is still uncertain how the seven rhinos died, possibly blood poisoning according to articles.

There were two male rhinos Ara and Shah.
And five females Seputih, Mas Merah, Mina and the two others I can't find their names.

The center unfortunately never produced one calf. Many conservationists calling the operation a disaster.

 

[Pertinax]

The center unfortunately never produced one calf.

One rhino was born in captivity- this was , I think, Mina, but her mother was pregnant when captured. And she may have been born somewhere other than Sungai Dusun.

 

[dragon(ele)nerd]

oh yes thats right, sorry.

One rhino did come into the center already pregnant, ( though the pregnancy obviously wasn't by the conservation efforts of the center's staff.)
I never knew that the rhino gave birth successfully.

 

[phoenix]

Cincinnati will NOT breed Succi with her Brother or father, there are other plans for the Sumatran Rhinos in the USA , much better than Inbreeding, which isn't better than no breeding.

what an unhelpful comment.

clearly, you would like us all to envy you for being privvy to some kind of top secret information, so i'm not going to bother indulging you in a game of "please tell us what you know".

if you would however like a good honest debate on why you think no breeding is better than inbreeding - please explain. i'd love to hear why you think that to be true.

 

[Yassa]

Rhino's death not knell for species | Cincinnati.com | The Cincinnati Enquirer

Seems they are planning AI on Suci with sperm from Asia. I am not sure if I like this idea - it has never done before on sumatran rhinos, and there is a huge question mark if they will archive a pregnancy with AI within a reasonable time frame. And every unsucessful AI try is wasting precious time. I think I`d rather let Suci breed with Ipuh to get her a first calf as soon as possible, and once Ipuh has died and no proven breeding male is availible in the US, there is enough time to experience with AI.

But since they want to go the AI route, they could as well send Ipuh over to Way Kambas, there are 2 fertile young female who need to get pregnant ASAP and it seems Andalas needs more time to learn how to mate a female (which wastes precious reproduction time of Rosa and Ratu...).

 

[taun]

Rhino's death not knell for species | Cincinnati.com | The Cincinnati Enquirer

Seems they are planning AI on Suci with sperm from Asia. I am not sure if I like this idea - it has never done before on sumatran rhinos, and there is a huge question mark if they will archive a pregnancy with AI within a reasonable time frame. And every unsucessful AI try is wasting precious time. I think I`d rather let Suci breed with Ipuh to get her a first calf as soon as possible, and once Ipuh has died and no proven breeding male is availible in the US, there is enough time to experience with AI.

But since they want to go the AI route, they could as well send Ipuh over to Way Kambas, there are 2 fertile young female who need to get pregnant ASAP and it seems Andalas needs more time to learn how to mate a female (which wastes precious reproduction time of Rosa and Ratu...).

So these are the grand plans, that are better than inbreeding.

 

[Yassa]

In zebraduiker`s opinion, only.

 

[jwer]

I've heared about attempting AI in sumatran rhino's before, but these are some challanges to overcome.

As far as i know, Torgamba's sperm isn't very viable. Perhaps they could try it, but imo Rosa and Ratu are far more likely candidates to pioneer AI with. That would mean getting sperm from a wild male, and that sounds close to impossible. The only likely candidate would be the male rescued in Borneo not that long ago, but that's from a different subspecies. Any other would have to be safely captured, semen obtained and then re-released into the wild. That's one hell of an obstacle...

Then there's the whole "induced ovulation". The only way to get a female to ovulate would be, being mounted by a male. Are they going to let Ipuh mount her or are they going to try and use hormones?

Sounds like an even harder feat then gettin Andalas onto the planet...

 

[Pertinax]

Like Yassa says, this is going back to the 'experimental stages' and will well use up valuable time in the process. As Sumatran rhinos are now known to ovulate only as a result of mating, how are they going to replicate that part of the process with AI? I would much rather see them breed her with her father to get a first calf- then maybe try AI after that- though I remain very sceptical about its success. No-one says yet where the semen from this 'unrelated male' is going to come from either.

To me these plans are not as positive, or guaranteed of success, as inbreeding if that was possible(i.e. if Ipuh is still alive then). If he isn't it then it may be the only alternative left at present.

 

[john]

As far as I can guess they do need two new females, and one or two new males. But from where?

 

[Pertinax]

As far as I can guess they do need two new females, and one or two new males. But from where?

Realistically, the only chance of obtaining anymore animals is where they become 'displaced' from their forests, as with the two females 'Rosa' & Ratu' I believe they now need to find one 'displaced' male- to breed with Suci in the USA. It might be risky to set too much store by the old male 'Ipuh' now (e.g. by trying to get another female for him)- although fully proven he is getting on in age now.

I would not advocate any other form of deliberate capture from the wild though- there is too much risk attatched.

 

[taun]

Realistically, the only chance of obtaining anymore animals is where they become 'displaced' from their forests, as with the two females 'Rosa' & Ratu' I believe they now need to find one 'displaced' male- to breed with Suci in the USA. It might be risky to set too much store by the old male 'Ipuh' now (e.g. by trying to get another female for him)- although fully proven he is getting on in age now.

This is why I believe Ipuh should be tried with Suci to determine her potential before even trying experimental A.I.

 

[mstickmanp]

We all know that Cincy knows what they are doing regarding sumatran rhino breeding, so trying AI on Suci might mean that they have an idea on how to get her to ovulate. I doubt that they would try AI without knowing how to get her to ovulate.

 

[taun]

We all know that Cincy knows what they are doing regarding sumatran rhino breeding, so trying AI on Suci might mean that they have an idea on how to get her to ovulate. I doubt that they would try AI without knowing how to get her to ovulate.

I hope this is the case.