No, I'm right, the moat is not the blame, it is as simple as that. Given the circumstances, I even think annabel would have smashed hard against the ouwehands concrete wall. Perhaps her injuries would have been different I don't know. Everybody is so focussed on guidelines and the moat, that they forget that she lost her balance, even flew through the air, and landed on her back. If she lost her balance at the edge of the moat she would have fallen on her side. She wouldn't have broken her neck, and gotten back on her feet again. And if I see it correctly, in the ouwehands ditch she also could have landed on her back, since she would not have slipped on the slope. I'm sorry, but the conclusion is very simple, it was an unfortunate accident, and the only blame of the ditch is that caretakers couldn't regocnize the injurie she had. Every enclosure has risks for the animals, no mistakes have been made. Some accidents can't be prevented. Emmen should focus on the new elephant exhibit, no adaptations are needed on this one for the time being.
Dierenpark Emmen (Closed) Emmen Zoo news
- Thread starter UntBwe
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No, I say the emmen experts are right. I wonder why people are trying to blame someone, wile there is no one to blame? Emmen has not implemented the current guidelines in the exhibit, so emmen is wrong, that's what is being said here. And by looking at the known circumstances it is complete b*llsh*t, to put the blame on the moat. If you just look at the ouwehands moat, if the accident occured here, annabel could also have landed on her back. And most probably she would still have broken her neck. Would the experts than suddenly declare the ouwehand moat unsafe? Or would the accident haven been seen as what it was? A very unfortunate accident, comparible to a human falling from the stair in his house.
It seems to me that you have completely blocked your mind on guidelines and the fact that because she was lying in the moat, the moat is dangerous. While all the arguments point in another direction. So who doesn't get it?
I don't know how long ago these new guidelines were put into action, and emmen has had plans to adapt and expand the current enclosure in 2001, but the epedemic of foot and mouth discease ( I hope I translated it correctly into english) in the same year and the following attendance drop forced the park to delay these plans together with some other plans. The fact that there was a huge investment on the es also played a big part. Somehow in the following years the plan was abandoned, and the rumours about a relocation were allready there. The finances were not so good in these years, so major investments did not take place.
I don't know what the plans were with the new enclosure, and I often criticized the management of the park for lack of vision and the fact that no big projects or other big changes. The visitor drop form 1,8 million to 1,2 million is not only due to competition but also to the policy of the management. Also has there been a great internal struggle in th epast few years of which little is known to the public. But I do know that if anyone in emmen really believed the moat would be a danger to the animals, it would have been adapted. So how is that for blindness?
I don't know how long ago these new guidelines were put into action, and emmen has had plans to adapt and expand the current enclosure in 2001, but the epedemic of foot and mouth discease ( I hope I translated it correctly into english) in the same year and the following attendance drop forced the park to delay these plans together with some other plans. The fact that there was a huge investment on the es also played a big part. Somehow in the following years the plan was abandoned, and the rumours about a relocation were allready there. The finances were not so good in these years, so major investments did not take place.
I don't know what the plans were with the new enclosure, and I often criticized the management of the park for lack of vision and the fact that no big projects or other big changes. The visitor drop form 1,8 million to 1,2 million is not only due to competition but also to the policy of the management. Also has there been a great internal struggle in th epast few years of which little is known to the public. But I do know that if anyone in emmen really believed the moat would be a danger to the animals, it would have been adapted. So how is that for blindness?
Yes, but there is also a lot of experience in emmen. I'm just pointing out that everybody is looking at guidelines, but they seem to forget that guidelines are mostly not immediately followed, and are especially for longterm developments. And as I pointed out, the explanation of the accident was not as simple as not following guidelines. Dry moats have long been an acceptable form of separation ( so we can't speak of a big mistake), now they are slowly dissapearing.
Emmen has had plans in the past to expand and refit the enclosure, but due to financial problems that never happened. New developments have occured, and emmen has already seen the troubles concerning keeping a herd with a lot of youngsters ( nobody dared to dream this would ever happen when the enclosure was build). Although emmen does have an enclosure fit for keeping a herd of elephants, it is desirable to have a larger one for natural growht of the herd. Also a sandfloor is needed in the stable, and this should also be bigger to house a larger herd. A sandfloor is impossible in the stable because it's underground. And the moat is also a risk to elephants ( although the term deathtrap is largely exagerated), but not that great that immediate action is needed. It's impossible to build a new enclosure that would be completely state of the art on the current location, while emmen has the opportunity to build a new one at the expansion part of the zoo. If everything goes according to plan the new enclosure will be opened in 2013.
Emmen has had plans in the past to expand and refit the enclosure, but due to financial problems that never happened. New developments have occured, and emmen has already seen the troubles concerning keeping a herd with a lot of youngsters ( nobody dared to dream this would ever happen when the enclosure was build). Although emmen does have an enclosure fit for keeping a herd of elephants, it is desirable to have a larger one for natural growht of the herd. Also a sandfloor is needed in the stable, and this should also be bigger to house a larger herd. A sandfloor is impossible in the stable because it's underground. And the moat is also a risk to elephants ( although the term deathtrap is largely exagerated), but not that great that immediate action is needed. It's impossible to build a new enclosure that would be completely state of the art on the current location, while emmen has the opportunity to build a new one at the expansion part of the zoo. If everything goes according to plan the new enclosure will be opened in 2013.
People can we please remain on topic, rather than get into infighting and self-indulgent bickering you 2 are involved in? If you would like to continue to do so, please revert to the Dutch zoo news site you both frequent.
If nothing noteworthy on Emmen Zoo gets posted beyond my plea for some form of decency and on the level reporting of real zoo news rather than both your viewpoints, I will bring this thread to the attention of the administrator and have it closed.
Thank you!
If nothing noteworthy on Emmen Zoo gets posted beyond my plea for some form of decency and on the level reporting of real zoo news rather than both your viewpoints, I will bring this thread to the attention of the administrator and have it closed.
Thank you!
Marjo Hoedemaker from the Amersfoort Zoo also let know that there is a good possibilty that Yu Zin (30) could move with Elephant Sammy (now in Blijdorp) to Budapest Zoo. (source; article on the dutch Mijnzoo.nl)
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
I thought the two current elephants at Budapest were moved from Emmen because they didn't get on very well with the new herd that came from Myanmmar? 
Any particular reason Yu zin? would of thought the herd would of needed her after the death of Annabel to be the new Matriach. Then again she doesn't have any of her own claves at the zoo with her. As opposed to the other adults, is this why?
Just wondering....
Any particular reason Yu zin? would of thought the herd would of needed her after the death of Annabel to be the new Matriach. Then again she doesn't have any of her own claves at the zoo with her. As opposed to the other adults, is this why?
Just wondering....
The article didn't give any particular reason for moving Yu Zin, but given it's source it's credible. Marjo Hoedemaker (animal manager at Amersfoort where Sammy came from) would not be quoted on this if this isn't under discussion. Mind you, it's only a possibility as Gorilla Gust indicated!
On the reasons why we can only speculate at this moment.
On the reasons why we can only speculate at this moment.
Like Elly said about my posting, it is suggest by Marjo of Amersfoort, it isn't a exact fact at this moment. Why i shared it with you guys you can think now. That's simply, if someone like Marjo shared this with the public, then it is a big possiblity to my opion.
But elephants and where they will live in Zoo's? Like we all now, it's a big mystery, and nobody know what will happen on long terms... Sometimes like now we (the fans) don't even see what will happen on short terms.
The same article said also that it would be this elephant from emmen, because there are 2 elephants within an older age that could move. Nothing but rumors, but announced to all the dutchspeaking fans by now...
But elephants and where they will live in Zoo's? Like we all now, it's a big mystery, and nobody know what will happen on long terms... Sometimes like now we (the fans) don't even see what will happen on short terms.
The same article said also that it would be this elephant from emmen, because there are 2 elephants within an older age that could move. Nothing but rumors, but announced to all the dutchspeaking fans by now...
The article is here (with a picture from Alex)
AD Mijn Zoo - Nieuws
I`ve heard that since Annabel`s death, Yu Zin is bullying Ma Palai, and if this doesn`t stop, she has to leave. Budapest sounds like a good place for her.
AD Mijn Zoo - Nieuws
I`ve heard that since Annabel`s death, Yu Zin is bullying Ma Palai, and if this doesn`t stop, she has to leave. Budapest sounds like a good place for her.
dragon(ele)nerd
Well-Known Member
does her mum Htoo Yin aye step in at all? But I assume beforehand Annabel of course kept order, and now passed on. Now Yu zin feels she has the dominance and can do what she feels like.
Yu zin is indeed dominant, too dominant. I think she has to leave because she is espacially too dominating towards the elephants who are lowest in rank. Hella and Zitta indeed left because they didn't get along with the rest, and separated themselves from the rest of the herd. But perhaps they could get along with yu zin, I don't know....