Do note the the rainforest room at Toledo is not at example of this phenomenon where an enclosure can be too large for people to see the animals. The dart frogs are very visible (though humidity dependent).
Enclosure space is overrated compared to quality of space
- Thread starter La Cucaracha
- Start date
Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
@Aardwolf I really appreciate Hediger; but if you've seen the size of some of the original enclosures he had built, you will realize his personal estimation of adequate enclosure size was also a product of his time. Our conception of an adequate enclosure size is, among others, also a cultural one, and as such influenced by the current zeitgeist.[/QUOTE]
Quite true, all of the major figures of the industry were products of their time, some of whom have aged better than others. I find that I'm often alone in having fond appreciation of William Hornaday, for example, who now seems to be mostly remembered for the Ota Benga affair.
I mostly appreciate Hediger for taking a philosophical approach to zookeeping that said, "It's possible to do better, and it's possible for us to KNOW what doing better means."
Quite true, all of the major figures of the industry were products of their time, some of whom have aged better than others. I find that I'm often alone in having fond appreciation of William Hornaday, for example, who now seems to be mostly remembered for the Ota Benga affair.
I mostly appreciate Hediger for taking a philosophical approach to zookeeping that said, "It's possible to do better, and it's possible for us to KNOW what doing better means."
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Who said you can't see a dart frog in a large exhibit? I had a great time searching for (and seeing) multiple dart frog species in Toledo Zoo's ProMedica Museum of Natural History:
The two frog photos are mine, the exhibit photos are by @TinoPup
I LOVE this exhibit. I was expecting to not find any frogs, given I've never seen any in a few other rainforests that claim to have them (like National Aquarium), but they were super easy to find. I found multiples of every species on the list, many right along the path. I much, much prefer this to the often over-stocked terrariums!
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Well all in all, I do think people tend to romanticize the idea of more space for zoo animals without equally prioritizing enrichment. And some animals do get more space better utilized by other species just because they're bigger and showier. Especially with hoofstock.
But the responses I've gotten are "Can't afford it? Don't keep it." while posting about zoos that keep free roaming dart frogs in conservatories. The Dunning Kruger comments are especially odd. If it were true, I would've asked the missus if it's ok for me to start a zoo and pulled the trigger. Instead, I started growing my own reptile food and went back to college.
No we don't? It's exhibit, enclosure, terrarium, etc.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Quality Reptile Enclosures & Tanks by Zen Habitats
I worked at an exotic pet store for nearly a year. People absolutely call them cages in addition to what you call them.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Apparently Zen doesn't refer to their products as cages on website, but people certainly do.
Vision Cages Archives
Vision Cages Archives
I hear "cage" used interchangeably for enclosure or terrarium all the time, especially in the pet trade and related industries. "Rattlesnake cage" is a perfectly acceptable way to refer to a terrarium containing a rattlesnake, even if it isn't the terminology I would use.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Aardwolf
Well-Known Member
There was a period of time - which, I think, we're still sort of in - where we've over-romanticized enrichment. I've worked with plenty of keepers who were crazy about enrichment, to the point where it was all they thought about (well, that and training). To me, enrichment as we normally think of it is icing on the cake, or caulk used to fill in cracks. It should be supplementary. The enclosure and the social group (for applicable species) should be the primary enrichment. They should give the animals the most options for engaging in the widest variety of natural behavior possible. Enrichment should be used just to make up for deficiencies, such as promoting hunting behavior for carnivores. Enrichment is often used as a band aid for subpar enclosures - which I get, if you have a subpar enclosure what else are you going to do? It's not like it's super easy to go and build a new one. But we should be planning enclosures of the future that are enriching in and of themselves, as much as possible.
I think the pet trade is an entirely different thing; keeping snakes in racks isn't really acceptable either when it comes to best practices for the animal's well-being, but it's common there. When it comes to zoos, I only hear it from ARA types and those who who call everything a cage.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Well said. That's the other reason I decided to study architecture.
Although I gotta say, toys are habitat enrichment about as much as browse is hay hung up fifteen feet in the air.
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It's a lot easier to make an enriching environment when an enclosure is larger. Larger enclosures allow more places for staff to hide food and allow the animals to naturally forage. Larger enclosures have more space for zoo staff to install larger enrichment devices (e.g., elephant exhibits with hanging browse feeders sometimes can take a lot of space). Larger enclosures are often better able to facilitate enriching, natural social groupings. Larger enclosures are often better able to house multiple species, adding into the enrichment benefits of having a mixed-species exhibit. Larger enclosures are also better able to allow animals choice and control, forming enrichment in that animals don't need to always be on the same substrate, in the same shade level, etc. Exhibit size and exhibit complexity/enrichment are both important, but they are not mutually exclusive.
Snakes in racks is still very common in US zoos, those areas are just not on display. Yes, even within the AZA.
But regardless, I am not referring to an enclosure's quality here. "Cage" is a perfectly acceptable term in the industry. Companies like Custom Cages design animal enclosures of all sorts for all sorts of industries, including zoos. They call all of their creations cages. Thus, "cage" is a fine term for pretty much any enclosed animal enclosure (not sure I'd call something like a hoofstock yard a cage, for example, but a terrarium with a reptile definitely is).
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
It's harder to justify Hediger's ideas the larger the animal gets. Elephants are one animal I actually wish zoos would set aside thousands of acres for.
But honestly, the best elephant exhibit I've seen is Oregon Zoo's indoor one. The elephants were all very occupied foraging with different challenges.
I think the reason that large space is ideal is because it becomes way easier to manage everyone, especially for larger animals. Obviously you hit a point of diminishing returns but you should ideally have enough space to cater for everyone's social needs.
For example, the Cincinnati hippo enclosure fails because it's not big enough to give all the hippos space to get away from each other and to reduce group friction.
So, for elephants, I don't think a big 10 acre space is needed but there should be enough space for multiple nice yards where animals can get me time or reduce social friction
Though I am but a layman so idk
For example, the Cincinnati hippo enclosure fails because it's not big enough to give all the hippos space to get away from each other and to reduce group friction.
So, for elephants, I don't think a big 10 acre space is needed but there should be enough space for multiple nice yards where animals can get me time or reduce social friction
Though I am but a layman so idk
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Large grazing animals shouldn't be kept in soil eroded paddocks.
Large grazing animals are themselves the cause of said eroded paddocks - in many cases the grass just can't hold up to the constant grazing and foot traffic.
La Cucaracha
Well-Known Member
Large grazing animals are themselves the cause of said eroded paddocks - in many cases the grass just can't hold up to the constant grazing and foot traffic.
Then the exhibit is obviously too small, because not every hoofstock paddocks is eroded to nothing. It honestly makes me sad to see beef cattle living better lives.
So space is overrated, and a substantial number of exhibits in reputable zoos are "obviously too small"? I don't want to begin on the mental gymnastics of making both of these arguments.