This is the first match these two collections have had within this round, and it's a very interesting category for discussion - MOUNTAINS AND POLES. Plenty of scope for discussion, I reckon - so I hold out hopes for a vibrant and active debate!
European (Tea)Cup - FINALS LEAGUE - Burgers vs Wroclaw
- Thread starter TeaLovingDave
- Start date
Legit question - what does Burgers even have that would constitute "Mountains & Poles". The only animal I could find when I visited were the seals, but that was years ago and they've long since gone.
Haven't given it all that much thought yet, but I think this might well be the diametric opposite of the Chester/Tierpark match that just ended - a match where both collections have very little to offer, and the debate lies in which collection fares best with what they *do* have!
Well, just checking the official website, Wroclaw has...
DEFINITELY COUNTS
DEFINITELY COUNTS
- Barbary Sheep
- Harbour Seal
- Guanaco
- Pallas' Cat
- Asiatic Black Bear
- Red Panda
- Snow Leopard
- Reindeer
- Takin
- Barbary Macaque
- Brown Bear
- Eurasian Lynx
- Grey Wolf
- European Wildcat
- Hartmann's Mountain Zebra
- Wisent
Kalaw
Well-Known Member
Having been to Burgers' (but not Wrocław), I too must say I struggle to think of much at Burgers' that counts here! There is a little which could count, but even then I'm not entirely sure it fits the category and it may not be enough to prevent a 5-0 as Wrocław looks really strong here.
The only thing I can think of which might count is the coati and squirrel monkey enclosure. South American Coatis are typically found on Andean foothills, at times reaching heights of 2,500 metres, so although not a mountain exclusive by any means could count. They share with Peruvian Squirrel Monkeys which I feel would be stretching the definition too far.
Assuming both species count, the enclosure is world-class. I've never seen either species treated better at any zoo, and the opportunity to look up and see coatis climbing in trees some twenty metres above your head is unforgettable. Not only are the trees tall but there are several of them and it is impossible to judge just how far back this massive island extends!
@KevinB
But as much as I love the enclosure, if it is really all that Burgers' has, then up against the enormous number of relevant species at Wrocław, with some excellent enclosures (e.g. brown bears!), this surely has to be a 5-0?!
The only thing I can think of which might count is the coati and squirrel monkey enclosure. South American Coatis are typically found on Andean foothills, at times reaching heights of 2,500 metres, so although not a mountain exclusive by any means could count. They share with Peruvian Squirrel Monkeys which I feel would be stretching the definition too far.
Assuming both species count, the enclosure is world-class. I've never seen either species treated better at any zoo, and the opportunity to look up and see coatis climbing in trees some twenty metres above your head is unforgettable. Not only are the trees tall but there are several of them and it is impossible to judge just how far back this massive island extends!
@KevinB
But as much as I love the enclosure, if it is really all that Burgers' has, then up against the enormous number of relevant species at Wrocław, with some excellent enclosures (e.g. brown bears!), this surely has to be a 5-0?!
Would "Only Wroclaw has relevant species" be an acceptable reason? That's a legit question, BTW.
If one believes that's the case, and explicitly says so, yes.
I'm willing to accept the exhibit at Burgers which @Kalaw suggested as fitting the category for anyone who is uncomfortable with a 5-0 vote and wants to remain at 4-1 too, and naturally if anyone else has arguments for further Burgers exhibits I'd be interested to hear them.
Although this looks like it is shaping up to be a match where it won't take very much at all to justify a 5:0 vote, for the sake of consistency I need to ask @Mathijs to post explaining their vote in order for it to stand, even if it is only a sentence or two
For the sake of consistency I will also now need a post from @GiratinaIsGod relating to their post, too.
EliasNys
Well-Known Member
Okay I think i am going 5-0 too. It's sad that this is burger's downfall but this match is really like an ant fighting against an elephant.
Just for mammals, Wroclaw has ( based on ZTL)
Just for mammals, Wroclaw has ( based on ZTL)
- Asiatic black bear
- Cretan wild goat
- Eastern Atlantic Harbour seal
- Eastern bongo
- Eurasian lynx
- Eurasian wolf
- Eurasian brown bear
- Mouflon
- Guanaco
- Mountain zebra
- Libyan barbary sheep
- Mountain hare
- Nepalese red panda
- Shensi takin
- Siberian Ibex
- Snow leopard
- South American coati
- Peruvian squirrel monkey
ok, simply, Arnhem has literally 0 species for this thematic, I would not count animals from tropical foothills fitting theme, since they mostly live in low land areas. Even with the bighorn sheep, I would still give Arnhem 0-5
In that case, even though I wouldn't normally do this, Wroclaw gets 5-0 simply because its the only one of the two zoos that has mountain/pole animals. It's probably the most open-and-shut case we've had so far.
It's definitely one of the most unlucky dice-rolls for a collection ever since the last European Cup, when Prague went out relatively early whilst several collections which dropped out early this time round progressed significantly further - broadly speaking I think that Burgers would have beaten Wroclaw hands-down for almost every single category barring this one (and probably Temperate Forest too), and is a significantly better zoo all round.
This, of course, is one of the pitfalls of extreme specialisation and geo-zone theming.....
It is a good thing that results like this are possible on the basis of an unfortunate draw, otherwise a contest like this would be quasi superfluous.
Actually, those who did not vote 5-0 should offer an explanation, including myself, because there is hardly anything to give a point in this category to Burger's
Actually, those who did not vote 5-0 should offer an explanation, including myself, because there is hardly anything to give a point in this category to Burger's
The bobcat absolutely would. It's just a shame it's no longer there.
Père Damian's Deer
Well-Known Member
Do Cinerous Vultures and Turkey Vultures count for Burgers’?
Paul.Haerle
Well-Known Member
And West Peruvian Dove?