European (Tea)Cup - HEAD-TO-HEAD: Tierpark Berlin vs Zoo Berlin (Carnivores)

[TeaLovingDave]

As the title suggests, this one will focus on the CARNIVORES category - as previously, the match will last for three days and although discussion of your reasoning and provision of supplementary evidence is not mandatory (except in cases of a 5:0 vote) it *is* very much encouraged.

Moreover, even if one does not feel comfortable voting, please do ask questions, post comments relating to your opinions on the evidence presented, and generally-speaking get involved in the wider discussion!

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

I shall start with a showcase for Tierpark Berlin. These two collections share a lot of similarities in design and collections, and so that makes for a very close match. Seeing as both of their carnivore houses have been renovated in the last years.

ABH (Alfred Brehm House):

@SivatheriumGuy

@Philipine eagle - Probably the head of the house for many casual visitors. The Sumatran Tigers have one of the biggest indoor enclosures a carnivore can have, the outdoors still is rather small, especially with the amount of cubs they have. But Zoo Berlin can't speak much in this regard as their outdoor enclosure also isn't all that big either.

@RonBurrgundy

@Shirokuma - Another fantastic indoor enclosure for two Asian carnivores. These two did get a significant upgrade for their outdoor area.
Species: Sun Bear, Binturong

@Philipine eagle - Two of the rarest cats in the zoo world. Probably the highlight for us Zoo fans. The two enclosures are of a similar size and are very lush.
Species: Javan Leopard, Asian Golden Cat

@Philipine eagle - The Indochinese Clouded Leopards have a fantastic indoor and outdoor enclosure.

@Hvedekorn - There are also some cages for Central African Ratel, White-bearded Masked Palm Civet. It is fine for the civets, but it is way too small for the Badgers.

@Hvedekorn - Maned Wolf live in two similar enclosures.

@Philipine eagle - There is also a nice Sudan Cheetah enclosure outside of the house.
Himalayas:

@twilighter - A nice enclosure for Snow Leopard.

@Philipine eagle - A large enclosure for the elusive Pallas' Cat.

@SivatheriumGuy - The biggest Red Panda enclosure you can probably get.
Other areas:

@Philipine eagle - This enclosure has been renovated last summer and contains two charismatic South American carnivores.
Species: Spectacled Bear, Bush Dog

@SivatheriumGuy - Polar Bear enclosure with lots of water, but not enough land area.

@lintworm

@SivatheriumGuy

@SivatheriumGuy

@Green_mamba - An area that consists of multiple carnivore enclosures.
Species: Arabian Striped Hyena, South African Bat-eared Fox, East African Banded Mongoose, Chinese Dhole. (African Wild Dog, doesn't count yet?) There is also a Red Panda enclosure nearby.

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

@lintworm - Two connected enclosures make for a great display of Northern Yellow-throated Martens. There is also a similarly build Pallas' Cat enclosure opposite of this one.

@Philipine eagle - This fantastic new enclosure contains Asian Small-clawed Otters with two other asian animals.

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

I might make a Zoo Berlin showcase tomorrow, if no one beats me to it as I believe both of these fantastic collections need to be shown.

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

Now it's time for Zoo Berlin, it is only right that I start with both of the carnivore houses.

Reich Der Jäger:

@RonBurrgundy

@twilighter - For many the first big animal you see when you go to the house. In the renovation they managed to keep the great sightline and the iconic rockwall in this enclosure. The Southeast African Lions have a great indoor area and great rocks to lie on in their outside enclosure.

@twilighter - The Jaguar has a great indoor enclosure with underwater viewing. The outside looks great, but is lacking in space, hence the announced expansion.

@twilighter - This enclosure suffers from the same problems the Tigers have in Tierpark. Not enough land and too much water. The indoor area should be similar to the others.
Species: Sumatran Tiger

@twilighter - A nice indoor enclosure for two Persian Leopards, they have two outdoor enclosures, but could have been slightly bigger.

@twilighter - A few of the outdoor and indoor enclosures for multiple small carnivores. Special mention goes out to the two Malagasy carnivores as most of the population in captivity seems to originate from an import by Zoo Berlin (Narrow-striped Boky, Eastern Ring-tailed Vontsira)
Other Species: Arabian Sand Cat, Yucatan Margay, Southern Oncilla, Dwarf Mongoose, Nepalese Red Panda.
Tiere Der Nacht:

@twilighter - Normally these enclosures tend to be very dark, but in the morning the lights are still on and you can wonder at these two carnivore species.
Species: Kinkajou, Fennec Fox
Panda Garden:

@lintworm - Seen by many here as the best Giant Panda enclosure in Europe.
Other areas:

@ZooTripper365 - A trio of enclosures in the Bear area which were modernised quite recently. The Sloth Bears have a much bigger and lusher enclosure than before.
Other species: European Brown Bear, Eurasian Wolf

 

[Père Damian's Deer]

@ZooTripper365 - Opposite of the Bears there is a very nice and lush enclosure for White-nosed Coati.

@Maguari - African Wild Dog enclosure.

@lintworm - Next to the Primate House, there is an enclosure for Meerkats.

@snowleopard

@ZooTripper365

@lintworm - These last 3 enclosures contain 3 water-loving mammals. I believe the Pinnipeds have wave machines in their enclosures and the Otter enclosure is quite spacious with multiple types of viewing.
Species: California Sea Lion, Eastern Atlantic Harbour Seal, Asian Small-clawed Otter.
This matchup is very tight and could go either way in my opinion. I believe it ultimately comes down to what animals you like more.

 

[Philipine eagle]

I voted 3:2 in favor of the Tierpark, but with the slightest possible margin ever in this competition.

Species lists are very balanced, but I have less interest in pinnipeds and giant panda.

Both zoos did a fantastic job renovating their Carnivore House, but they both have the same limitation: the enclosures are too small and there is usually only one per species. However, the buildings are fantastic to visit, the atmosphere and theming are excellent, and there are many nooks and crannies, which makes the visit extra fun and exciting.

Perhaps neither zoo has any state-of-the-art enclosures for carnivores? Except perhaps the giant panda in the Zoo? The enclosure for Asian small-clawed otters in the Tierpark is stunning, but they are only a secondary species there.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Any further thoughts or arguments on either side?

 

[Dassie rat]

The Tierpark has 21 carnivores the Zoo lacks and gets 44 points for carnivores kept in up to 10 collections
The Zoo has 20 carnivores the Tierpark lacks and gets 19 points for carnivores kept in up to 10 collections

This gives a 65-39 win to the Tierpark, which I'll translate to a 3-2 win

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Zoo Berlin - 37/80 points - 46.250%
Tierpark Berlin - 43/80 points - 53.750%