European (Tea)Cup - League A - Chester vs Artis

[TeaLovingDave]

This time round, we have two heavyweight zoological collections with a lot to prove facing off against one another; in one corner, a zoo which is often regarded as the best in the United Kingdom and among the best in Europe as a whole; and in the other corner, an old and historically-significant Dutch collection which sustained a bit of a beating in the very first match of the current Cup.

The category at hand is LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN - for clarity, this category covers the entirety of Mexico, Central America, South America and the Caribbean and as such exhibits pertaining to species from those regions of South America and the Caribbean where English and/or Dutch are the majority language are still valid.

I'll be very interested to see where this one goes!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This is a very tricky one, as I have little memory of what Artis offers in this regard - but for now I shall park my initial vote on "Chester 4/1 Artis" on the strength of the excellent exhibit for Spectacled Bear and surrounding smaller exhibits for tapir, capybara and giant anteater, the jaguar house (which is still the best exhibit for this species I have seen anywhere in Europe bar none) and associated exhibits, and a number of other noteworthy exhibits.

 

[twilighter]

Artis has a nice Jaguar exhibit ( complimenting one of their most important conservation projects) and few South American primates, but it will be very difficult to fight one of the Europe's best Jaguar and Spectacled Bear's facilities. I am not sure how the non-mammal collections can affect the final result, but I will give my vote to Chester for now.

 

[oflory]

For someone who lives in England, it is strange I have been to Artis more recently than Chester.

However, I think the sheer quality of the jaguar and the spectacled bear exhibits clinches it for Chester. I did think the bird house and the reptile house at Artis were extremely well done, but from memory, they contain mostly Asian and African species? I'll have to check Zootierliste...

 

[PossumRoach]

I never visited Chester, but I can already feel like Artis has little chance to win this one. This feel like a foot race between a middle aged jogger and a thoroughbred horse.

 

[lintworm]

Artis has quite a few South American exhibits, some of which are very good indeed. Here is an overview:

Starting with the bird house, which has a coastal walkthrough (with small outdoor aviary attached) for a breeding group of inca terns and puna ibis:

The former monkey house is transformed in a walkthrough rainforest house, which now houses only South American species inside:

@TeaLovingDave (pictures shows 1 of the planted areas).

This is a walkthrough with some primates, sloths, Brazilian porcupine as well as guira cuckoo and burrowing owl.

One of the 3 outdoor cages holds red-billed currasow in a very well-planted setting:

The red-faced spider monkeys have a new enclosure in one of the pond areas:

@vogelcommando

The largest S-American exhibit is the Pampas enclosure, of which hardly any good pictures exist. It is a very large paddock surrounding a historical stable and houses lowland tapir, giant anteater, capybara, mara and rhea:

@devilfish

@Dylon

Adjacent is a relatively new pair of jaguar cages, which could clearly have been larger given their age:

@twilighter

The pheasantry area has 2 large S-American cages one for a breeding group of blue-throated macaw:

@vogelcommando with a similar-sized aviary for scarlet ibis on the other size. Smaller well-planted aviaries in this area also house some S-American species including toco toucan, ocellated turkey and Brazilian tanager.

A very nice butterfly pavillion has a good selection of S-American butterflies (and some Asian species IIRC), with free-ranging poison-dart frogs:

@vogelcommando showing a small portion of the butterfly pavillion.

The small mammal house has some more callitrichids in indoor only enclosures as well as three-banded armadillo:

@twilighter

Additionally there is a very good degu + ground dove cage outside, which is a former margay cage. It is nice to see such a common species with a (for them) huge space.

Other bits and pieces include some terraria in the reptile house, invertebrate enclosures in the excellent insect house and a standard Chilean flamingo pond.

Overall it is not a bad offering, but with Chester having their excellent jaguar house en spectacled bear enclosure, I don't think it comes close enough.

 

[Kalaw]

Another real strong suit for Chester that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet is outstanding Giant Otter enclosure, a repurposed sea lion lake that would still be spacious enough (although probably not deep enough) for pinnipeds today, with spacious land portions and an onshow indoor area, too. The world-class Jaguar enclosure, probably one of my all-time favourite zoo exhibits, has been touched on, but the rest of the building it is in, featuring a huge Bush Dog habitat, a delightfully landscaped Amazonian aquarium, Titicaca Water Frogs and free-ranging Linnaeus' Two-toed Sloths (who even have an outdoor area with live trees), is yet to have been described. Then there is the Latin American walkthrough aviary and the huge callitrichid enclosures with mature trees that do well to give the illusion of being barrierless and fading into the surroundings. And then there is an exhibit I have always praised as one of Chester's hidden gems - the free-ranging Trinidad Stream Frogs in the butterfly house.

I would argue this is Chester's strongest category, certainly as far as the geographical ones go. Artis looks great from some of lintworm's photos, but I feel as though the multitude of world-class enclosures at Chester (particularly for species such as jaguars, sloths and otters that often get the short end of the stick in zoos) is far superior. 4-1 Chester for me.

 

[Rajang-GOAT]

Another real strong suit for Chester that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet is outstanding Giant Otter enclosure, a repurposed sea lion lake that would still be spacious enough (although probably not deep enough) for pinnipeds today, with spacious land portions and an onshow indoor area, too. The world-class Jaguar enclosure, probably one of my all-time favourite zoo exhibits, has been touched on, but the rest of the building it is in, featuring a huge Bush Dog habitat, a delightfully landscaped Amazonian aquarium, Titicaca Water Frogs and free-ranging Linnaeus' Two-toed Sloths (who even have an outdoor area with live trees), is yet to have been described. Then there is the Latin American walkthrough aviary and the huge callitrichid enclosures with mature trees that do well to give the illusion of being barrierless and fading into the surroundings. And then there is an exhibit I have always praised as one of Chester's hidden gems - the free-ranging Trinidad Stream Frogs in the butterfly house.

I would argue this is Chester's strongest category, certainly as far as the geographical ones go. Artis looks great from some of lintworm's photos, but I feel as though the multitude of world-class enclosures at Chester (particularly for species such as jaguars, sloths and otters that often get the short end of the stick in zoos) is far superior. 4-1 Chester for me.

I agree about Chester definitely excelling in this category, and have also voted 4-1, looks like there are some nice species and exhibits Artis have to show, but it is not enough to match the mighty Chester in this case.

To your list of Chester's great range of quality exhibits and species in this category, you can add:

• The aforementioned brilliantly planted breeding Andean bear exhibit with undulating terrain.
• The neighbouring expansive Giant anteater and Capybara paddock.
• Southern tamandua that live alongside Pied tamarins at the callitrichid exhibit.
• Colombian black spider monkeys live in the monkey house with access to an open topped outdoor enclosure, full of foliage.
• Lowland tapir that are neighbours to the bears and anteaters/capybara.
• Humboldt penguins live in a large and pretty exhibit adjacent to the Giant Otters.
• Yellow-breasted capuchins did live in the monkey house but I believe are now off show.

And that is just the highlights of the selection of species from that part of the world at Chester.

 

[Brum]

My mind and heart are saying 4-1 to Chester. The above-mentioned exhibitsare pretty much all great, but where's the love for the Tamandua enclosure? Gotta be one of the largest exhibits in the world for the species if we're taking into account the outdoor enclosures shared with primates. And the penguin pool is also far from terrible, admittedly not on the same level as London or Folly Farm, but still holding up well after many years in operation.

 

[Brum]

I agree about Chester definitely excelling in this category, and have also voted 4-1, looks like there are some nice species and exhibits Artis have to show, but it is not enough to match the mighty Chester in this case.

To your list of Chester's great range of quality exhibits and species in this category, you can add:

• The aforementioned brilliantly planted breeding Andean bear exhibit with undulating terrain.
• The neighbouring expansive Giant anteater and Capybara paddock.
• Southern tamandua that live alongside Pied tamarins at the callitrichid exhibit.
• Colombian black spider monkeys live in the monkey house with access to an open topped outdoor enclosure, full of foliage.
• Lowland tapir that are neighbours to the bears and anteaters/capybara.
• Humboldt penguins live in a large and pretty exhibit adjacent to the Giant Otters.
• Yellow-breasted capuchins did live in the monkey house but I believe are now off show.

And that is just the highlights of the selection of species from that part of the world at Chester.

Just saw your post after I posted, there's the love for the Tamandua enclosure I was talking about in my post!

 

[Lafone]

I haven't visited Artis, though the photos highlight some really good looking enclosures; that pampas exhibit and the aviaries look really good.

I think Chester has some really impressive areas, as already mentioned.

I've found the viewing for the otters rather disappointing, though it's clearly a great space for the animals that live in it. I really dislike the Capybara and Anteater enclosure, it seems sparse and the pond seems tiny in comparison to other places, it is on my list of could do more. However it is spacious and has good housing so it is a personal preference thing and it fades in comparison to other places at the Zoo rather than being 'bad'.

Jaguars and Spectacled Bears have super facilities at Chester and the areas are very well done.

I started at 4/1 Chester but having re considered a couple of areas I personally don't enjoy and looked at the gallery for some things at Artis, revised to 3/2.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

As the only dissenting vote so far, I'd be interested to hear the opinions and reasoning from @EliasNys as regards his vote in favour of Artis and see if he can convince others to vote as he has!

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I am afraid this is a bit of a storm in a tea cup. There is no way that you could even begin to compare a large top notch UK Zoo (where you can play around with space and do away with any regulations on historical buildings with much further ado) with loads of zoogeographical themed whole habitats/ecosystem approach areas to a Dutch small sized zoo (even by Dutch standards ...) - with admittedly one of the oldest zoos in the world ever and blessed with many historical and listed buildings - to even begin to compare. I just think it is plain silly.

No one zoo gets my vote here as I find the comparison a outright absurdity!


POST SCRIPTUM/INCIDENTALLY: And ... not what you might be all thinking ..... NO, NO, NO ... nothing to do with the fact that Natura Artis Magistra being my homedown zoo where I volunteer actively had anything to do with that ... DUH! )!

 

[NSU42]

I am afraid this is a bit of a storm in a tea cup. There is no way that you could even begin to compare a large top notch UK Zoo (where you can play around with space and do away with any regulations on historical buildings with much further ado) with loads of zoogeographical themed whole habitats/ecosystem approach areas to a Dutch small sized zoo (even by Dutch standards ...) - with admittedly one of the oldest zoos in the world ever and blessed with many historical and listed buildings - to even begin to compare. I just think it is plain silly.

No one zoo gets my vote here as I find the comparison a outright absurdity!


POST SCRIPTUM/INCIDENTALLY: And ... not what you might be all thinking ..... NO, NO, NO ... nothing to do with the fact that Natura Artis Magistra being my homedown zoo where I volunteer actively had anything to do with that ... DUH! )!

That's nice. No one is forcing you to participate.

 

[pipaluk]

I am afraid this is a bit of a storm in a tea cup. There is no way that you could even begin to compare a large top notch UK Zoo (where you can play around with space and do away with any regulations on historical buildings with much further ado) with loads of zoogeographical themed whole habitats/ecosystem approach areas to a Dutch small sized zoo (even by Dutch standards ...) - with admittedly one of the oldest zoos in the world ever and blessed with many historical and listed buildings - to even begin to compare. I just think it is plain silly.

No one zoo gets my vote here as I find the comparison a outright absurdity!


POST SCRIPTUM/INCIDENTALLY: And ... not what you might be all thinking ..... NO, NO, NO ... nothing to do with the fact that Natura Artis Magistra being my homedown zoo where I volunteer actively had anything to do with that ... DUH! )!

Probably the best (only) justification for a 5-0 vote seen in the competition so far and not even a vote

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Probably the best (only) justification for a 5-0 vote seen in the competition so far and not even a vote

Read: I did comment there cannot even be an even competition or comparison between the two Period! It is like having a Turkish wrestling contest between an elephant and a capybara... I could use other more expletives here ... but I like to keep things civil.

Anyhow, next ...., you are next!

 

[EliasNys]

As the only dissenting vote so far, I'd be interested to hear the opinions and reasoning from @EliasNys as regards his vote in favour of Artis and see if he can convince others to vote as he has!

I just really like the way Artis blends historical architecture in in its exhibits. They have seemed to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. They also have limited space because they are a city zoo, but once again they didn't let that stop them and are simply focussing on smaller species. Based on those 2 factors I decided to vote slightly in favor of artis. I have never been to Chester though, so anyone may still try to convince me.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I just really like the way Artis blends historical architecture in in its exhibits. They have seemed to turn a disadvantage into an advantage. They also have limited space because they are a city zoo, but once again they didn't let that stop them and are simply focussing on smaller species. Based on those 2 factors I decided to vote slightly in favor of artis. I have never been to Chester though, so anyone may still try to convince me.

All of that rather sounds like you are voting because of your personal admiration of Artis as a city zoo which has made the most of its limitations (which is indeed something to be admired I feel) rather than anything relating to the category at hand, however

No one zoo gets my vote here as I find the comparison a outright absurdity!

It's not like I chose to directly compare the two, as all matches (and category allocations) were randomised to keep things fair whilst you *have* chosen to raise a pointless complaint about the match existing in the first place!

 

[EliasNys]

All of that rather sounds like you are voting because of your personal admiration of Artis as a city zoo which has made the most of its limitations (which is indeed something to be admired I feel) rather than anything relating to the category at hand, however



It's not like I chose to directly compare the two, as all matches (and category allocations) were randomised to keep things fair whilst you *have* chosen to raise a pointless complaint about the match existing in the first place!

Of course I meant it in the context of the category. (I based myself primarily on the pictures of exhibits provided by @lintworm)

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Any lurking Artis experts waiting in the wings in order to make the case for the collection within the next day?