European (Tea)Cup - League A - Vienna vs Basel

[TeaLovingDave]

Two competitors which, by now, should be familiar to all those participating in the Cup - but a category which we haven't dealt with so far - GRASSLANDS AND DESERTS.

The scope is pretty wide, with the biomes in question occurring throughout the world in both temperate and tropical regions - the only proviso is that although the polar regions technically count as deserts, they are exempt from consideration here. Otherwise, there are many ways in which you can judge and compare the two collections at hand in order to determine which wins you vote!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'm not at all sure which way I will fall on this matter once I've mulled it over further - but for now, a 3:2 vote in favour of Vienna seems the fairest option.

 

[remar]

I'm not that familiar with Basel, but i think this category is a lucky one for Vienna.

With the exception of the (currently under renovation) giant pandas, all exhibits at the rotunda fit into this category. Including the hippos (with a pretty small indoor but nice outdoor enclosure), cheetahs, burchell zebras, ostriches, giraffes and five species of antelopes/gazelles.

Rotunda - Burchell's zebra enclosure

• Philipine eagle
• 18 Dec 2023

With the lions and the African elephants two of the most iconic species are kept, but both exhibits are quite small

African lion exhibit- Tiergarten Schönbrunn

• Chapman'szebra
• 2 Jun 2023

A small highlight is the east africa house with dwarf mongooses as well as deckens and ground hornbills.

Africa house

• lintworm
• 3 Apr 2018

Opened in 2017, containing 2 indoor enclosures, one for Dwarf mongoose and Decken's hornbill...

Another view into the African savannah is offered at the bird house

African Savannah Section of Bird House

• LaughingDove
• 26 Apr 2015
• 1

Has: Blue-naped Mousebird, Malachite Sunbird, White-Fronted Bee-eater, Red-cheeked Cordon-bleu...

There is another unimpressive aviary which house several native, grassland birds like europeans bee eaters, corn crakes or Eurasian stone-curlew

Aviary for native birds

• remar
• 16 Feb 2025
• 1

Aviary for europeans bee eaters, corn crake, Eurasian teal, Eurasian stone-curlew and pied avocet

The Indian rhino park with nilgais and blackbucks is large, although not the prettiest enclosure.

Asian Rhino + Hoofstock Exhibit - Fall 2024

• honeybadger
• 13 Jan 2025

18 Oct 2024

The spacious South American park isn't exactly grassland themed but some species like giant ant eaters or greater rheas count for this category.

The South America Park outdoor

• twilighter
• 19 Dec 2019
• vicugna

Brazilian Tapir/Giant Anteater/Capybara/Vicugna/ Greater Rhea/ Red-legged Seriema mixed exhibit

Then there is the stunning desert house next to the zoos main entrance, with a good variety of smaller, (semi-) desert species, including giant turtles and sousliks.

Desert house - second section

• lintworm
• 3 Apr 2018

With free-flying Speckled mousebird, Diamond dove, Namaqua dove and Madagascar fody

And last but not least, barely notable for public is the impressive collection of endangered desert fishes at the aquarium house. Most of theme are kept behind the scenes, and only few of theme are visible and signed at the Aquarium building. Some of theme are also kept unsigned at various fountains throughout the park.

Aquarium - Endangered fish tanks

• lintworm
• 3 Apr 2018
• 1

Several smaller tanks for small and endangered freshwater fish species

 

[twilighter]

Another tough call today between two similar zoo concepts. I will try to make some rough comparison between the main strengths of both.

Point for Vienna's Baroque ungulate/bird exhibits surrounding the Rotonda VS Antelope House and Grevy's Zebra/Hippo exhibit at Basel

Point for Vienna's Indian Rhino Park with Blackbuck and Nilgai VS Indian Rhino/ Visayan Warty Pig at Basel

Point for Basel for the better African Elephants facility

Point for Basel Etosha House vs Vienna's Cheetah and Meerkat exhibits

Point for Basel Lions better home

Pont for Basel Gamgoas house vs Vienna East African House

Point for Vienna for South American Park vs American Bisons

Point for Vienna's Bird House African hall

It sems to me that everything is going to come down to the Desert House of Vienna.

Since we count it, I will start with 3:2 for Vienna, if not I would probably give my vote to Basel.

 

[Gil]

This is a though match. Vienna definitely has the strongest arguments regarding architecture, with the enclosures around the Rotunda fitting in this category. Collection-wise, there are some similarities and I'd say that both zoos would have the same to offer. But, as things stand right know, I'd give the lead to Basel, as I feel it is more complete in this catgeory, with all the houses (Tembea, Etosha, Gamgoas, Australis) that also include smaller mammals, birds, reptiles, in very nice setups. There's the desert house in Vienna, but it is outside of the zoo, while the houses in Basel really fit in the desired representation of the different ecosystems.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

There's the desert house in Vienna, but it is outside of the zoo

Just to knock this argument on the head before it potentially gains currency - the Wustenhaus at Vienna does count for the purposes of the match

 

[lintworm]

I'm not that familiar with Basel, but i think this category is a lucky one for Vienna.

It might be a good category for Vienna, but I think Basel has the edge, if only by a very slight margin.

A (clockwise) overview from Basel:

The Vivarium has a selection of desert reptiles from around the world in high quality terraria:

@Philipine eagle - Longnose leopard lizard

@lintworm - Shingleback skink & spiny-tailed monitor lizard

@lintworm - Gila monster

@lintworm - Armadillo girdled lizard

Then follows the Somali wild ass enclosure, which is sadly also inhabited by ground hornbills (but Vienna also mixes its ground hornbills with hoofstock...)

@Philipine eagle

Then follows the Australis house, which mainly features western gray kangaroo:

@lintworm

This house also contains several small terraria, but most are for forest species. There is also a brush turkey exhibit, but not sure if they count for this category.

What follows is a forested section with a few enclosures that count:

@Cichlid - Little owl (part of a local re-introduction effort)

@Baldur - American bison

@Philipine eagle - Sable antelope

The extension area has an Indian rhino enclosure (shared with muntjac & warty pigs, which both don't count):

@twilighter

@lintworm

The historical antelope house has enclosures for Kordofan giraffe & lesser kudu:

@Philipine eagle - Giraffes

@Philipine eagle - Giraffe indoors

@Philipine eagle - Lesser kudu

The old small mammal rock has been transformed into an enclosure for European tortoises:

@lintworm

@lintworm

So far part 1.

 

[lintworm]

Part 2 of Basel with all the African houses.

We start with Gamgoas, which has a lot of education, but also the stunning nile crocodile, dwarf mongoose & bird exhibit:

@lintworm

@lintworm (even if the nile crocodiles don't count the others still do)

Other enclosures here are a large one with termites (real ones):

@Philipine eagle

And a breeding set up for Boulenger's cape tortoises:

@lintworm

Adjacent is the lion enclosure, which can also be viewed from inside the house:

@Philipine eagle

Adjacent is also an African wild dog exhibit, for which no good picture has been uploaded.

To complete the African carnivores there is a cheetah enclosure. This is for the female, male enclosures are located behind the scenes in a different part of the zoo:

@Philipine eagle

The cheetahs live adjacent to, what I think is the highlight of the zoo, the Etosha house:

@lintworm - from the outside it doesn't look pretentious, but it blends in well.

The house is focused on food chains, so it starts with plants (and free-ranging orb web spiders)

@twilighter

The come the vegetarians:

@lintworm - Migratory locusts in different sizes, opposite is a large enclosure with only adults.

@lintworm - the next room has Ansell's mole rat as well as exhibits for elephant shrew & pancake tortoise and grass mice.

The highlight is the large sociable weaver, lovebird, red-cheeked hornbill, Cape ground squirrel & rock hyrax exhibit:

@lintworm

Then it continues with the carnivores:

@lintworm - meerkats have their indoor exhibit here. Adjacent is a terrarium for horned vipers.

Flower beetles represent the detritivores and the building finishes with a predator-prey exhibit with a breeding colony of carmine bee-eaters and honeybees:

@Maguari

The house also has outdoor aviaries for the bee-eaters:

@Philipine eagle

and a meerkat + Cape porcupine exhibit:

@lintworm

This area also has the African elephant house:

@Cichlid

@twilighter

The visitor section is, Basel style, quite sobre, but with lovely education:

@lintworm

To complete the list there is a complex for Grant's zebra, ostrich and common hippo

@lintworm

@lintworm

In the daytime the hippos have their own portion, but when temperatures allow they spend the night in the zebra & ostrich exhibit, which has significantly more land. This way they can somewhat mimic the natural lifestyle of hippos, who spend a lot of time on land at night. The hippo indoor enclosure isn't great though

Overall Basel has much to commend, whereas Vienna is also pretty solid. But I think the quality of the houses in Basel gives it the edge. I also think that the elephant, lion & cheetah and African hoofstock exhibits in Basel are equal to clearly superior compared to the rotunda exhibits in Vienna which house similar species (indoor portions for hippo and giraffe excepted). Vienna has a better bird selection for this category, but together with the better rhino enclosure and desert house, it still doesn't outweigh Basel. But it is a close one for sure.

 

[remar]

Thank you @lintworm , it really seems like a close match
I think i'm still going with a 3:2 for Vienna, most likely because of the conservation breeding programs for several highly endangered desert fresh water fishes. (Despite being freshwater species, i assume they count @TeaLovingDave ?)

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

So, by my calculations and pure assumptions, each League should have 15 match-ups for its first round, and that'd presumably mean 15 different categories to be voting on. Assuming each league shares the same categories, does this mean we've seen all of them now?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Assuming each league shares the same categories, does this mean we've seen all of them now?

Correct; each category has now seen action at least once apiece.

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Correct; each category has now seen action at least once apiece.

Awesome. ^^

So far, though, only one has made an appearance in all four leagues thus far - hoofstock.

...yes, I'm noting all this down. I could use it as potential inspiration. X3

 

[TeaLovingDave]

...yes, I'm noting all this down. I could use it as potential inspiration. X3

Noting it down, but thus far not actually voting in either ongoing match

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Noting it down, but thus far not actually voting in either ongoing match

Well, to be fair, I've only been to one (two, technically) of the four (five, technically) competitors this round, and as I said in the main post, I don't think it's fair for me to judge a zoo I've not been to. I'll happily vouch for zoos I have been to if need be, though.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Well, to be fair, I've only been to one (two, technically) of the four (five, technically) competitors this round, and as I said in the main post, I don't think it's fair for me to judge a zoo I've not been to. I'll happily vouch for zoos I have been to if need be, though.

That's partially the purpose of encouraging people to post their thoughts, opinions and arguments - to make it easier for people to feel like they can make an informed judgement

And of course, even if you don't want to actually vote there's nothing stopping you (or any other lurkers) from posting your general thoughts on how you *would* vote given the information in front of you, or to highlight points you feel people should provide more details about!

 

[Philipine eagle]

It is definitely a 3:2, but in which direction? I visited both collections in 2023 during a tour of Austria and Switzerland.

Although the rotunda in Vienna is one of the (must see) highlights in terms of European zoo architecture, the enclosures themselves are not that special. The species on display are also very common in European collections. It's mainly how they did it here that matters.
There are, however, three enclosures that could stand out in this category: The pampa enclosure: it is large and varied, and cannot be viewed anywhere in 1 eye turn. And with the giant anteaters and seriemas, it has species that are quite interesting. The rhino park is a classic and clearly better than in Basel. The African savannah in the birdhouse is perhaps my favourite for Vienna in this category. But the Long-tailed paradise whydah still listed on the zoo website is no longer in the collection while the Kilimanjaro white-eye is more of a forest bird. There are, however, some nice estrildidae on display. Then there is the Desert House with its impressive historic architecture with beautiful cast-iron roof structures, an attractive visitor trail with a night and day section. Unfortunately, the species list is somewhat disappointing.

In Basel zoo, any enclosure can be put away as ‘just big enough’ or ‘too small’, but I was still blown away by the concepts of both Etoscha and Gamgoas exhibits. I think the focus on smaller species is a great plus while the degree of workmanship and sense of detail is extremely high. The enclosures for the African lions, African wild dogs, Somali wild donkeys and the Africa Anlage are amazingly well embedded in the garden, each having several viewing points for visitors and the animals all have hideouts. I do not give much credit to the elephants' outdoor enclosure, but the Tembea building was another hit.
Both also have giraffes, but the subspecies in Basel is more threatened. The antelope collection in Basel (Black sable antelope and lesser kudu) is far more limited than in Vienna, although it appeals more to me personally.

In terms of species and exhibits, I would prefer Basel. It's a zoo I could visit every 2-3 years, while for Vienna, I feel that 1 visit per decade is sufficient, including for this Zoochat Cup category.

 

[Kalaw]

This looks like a really close one.

Haven't visited either collection myself, so I decided to ask myself that if I woke up one morning, really wanted to see some grassland and desert species, and could visit either zoo, which one, based on my own personal research and the information provided by others, would I visit.

The rotunda paddocks and the bird house have long been high on my zoo bucket list, so initially I thought that, much like in the Artis thread, those two factors together would produce a fairly comfortable Viennese win. The mention of the freshwater fish breeding programme also catches my attention, and I love the idea of more exotic fish (beyond koi) to be kept in fountains throughout the gardens; that said, not sure how responsible this is given the endangerement of the fish. Would be fascinated to hear more about this. But lintworm's overview for Basel upthread made me reassess this. It has some immense historic charm of its own with the Antelope House, and the enclosures throughout seem to be more charming - Vienna's mammal enclosures seem just about big enough, and quite pretty, but the attention to detail and landscaping at Basel seems to surpass this. With Etosha and Gamgoas their displays seem more evocative and original, and while I will have to see them in person to determine how successful they are, kudos all the same for the idea. Bird house aside, I am not sure there is anything at Vienna (in this category) that cannot be found at half the zoos in Europe, just in a slightly less attractive manner. The Palmenhaus may be another example, but (and please correct me if I am mistaken) it seems to be mainly focused on plants and landscapes rather than animals.

All in all, I would say Vienna is somewhat better for birds and fish (if they count), but Basel is considerably better for mammals and herptiles. All in all, a close 3-2 win to Basel for me - still open to being persuaded otherwise.

 

[snowleopard]

This is one of those "toss a coin" matches and there appears to be plenty of great exhibits at both zoos in this category. Although it seems to be dead even between the two establishments, I had a couple of questions about the Wustenhaus (Desert House) in Vienna as it appears that this 1904 structure could potentially be the difference maker for some readers. Does anyone have a species list? Is there a separate admission fee for it? Is it as fantastic as it looks or is a tour of the Desert House a rather speedy affair for most zoo nerds due to it mainly being a botanical garden?

 

[Philipine eagle]

@Kalaw The Palmenhaus in the garden of Vienna's Schönbrunn Schlosspark does not belong to the zoo and it therefore seems to me that it cannot be included in the assessment. And afaik no animals are kept there.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Although it seems to be dead even between the two establishments, I had a couple of questions about the Wustenhaus (Desert House) in Vienna as it appears that this 1904 structure could potentially be the difference maker for some readers. Does anyone have a species list? Is there a separate admission fee for it? Is it as fantastic as it looks or is a tour of the Desert House a rather speedy affair for most zoo nerds due to it mainly being a botanical garden?

There *is* a seperate admission fee - but as noted it still counts as part of the collection for the purposes of the Cup in much the same way the Zoo-Aquarium at Berlin does, or the Tropen-Aquarium at Hagenbeck would if this collection had been included.

I certainly rather like the Desert House - I reckon I've generally spent about 20-30 minutes in there on the occasions I have visited Vienna - and think it would be highly unfair to classify it as merely a botanical garden.

If no one beats me to it, I'll provide a list of species on-display there when I finish work