European (Tea)Cup - League C - Cologne vs Burgers

[TeaLovingDave]

Two of the favourites to progress within League C come face-to-face against one another; the category at hand is ISLANDS AND AUSTRALIA, and as such provides a lot of scope for discussion of species collections, exhibit quality and so forth - I hope everyone enjoys the match to come!

 

[TeaLovingDave]

My immediate gut instinct for this one is that although Burgers has already proven elsewhere in the Cup that a collection with a relatively-small number of species can very much excel over a rival with a significantly more diverse range of category taxa as a result of greater exhibit quality, in this particular case they have drawn the short straw and enter into this match with an even lower-than-usual number of category species and exhibits whilst their rival has both quantity *and* quality.

As such I'm currently thinking that this is a fairly obvious 4:1 result for Cologne, although I hope for discussion and debate which may either sway my opinion or help to solidify my initial stance

 

[lintworm]

My immediate gut instinct for this one is that although Burgers has already proven elsewhere in the Cup that a collection with a relatively-small number of species can very much excel over a rival with a significantly more diverse range of category taxa as a result of greater exhibit quality, in this particular case they have drawn the short straw and enter into this match with an even lower-than-usual number of category species and exhibits whilst their rival has both quantity *and* quality.

As such I'm currently thinking that this is a fairly obvious 4:1 result for Cologne, although I hope for discussion and debate which may either sway my opinion or help to solidify my initial stance

It might not be so obvious as it seems . Given you indicated in a Zurich competition that marine displays from the geozone count, Burgers' does have an ace or 2:

- The whole of the Ocean is themed around the Indo-Pacific, specifically Indonesia with fish from there.
- Roughly half of the free-ranging animals in the Bush are island species
- Most of the Rimba has species occuring on islands
- The Mangrove mudflat display as well as the manatees fit within this category.
- In the park the swamp wallaby and lemur enclosures count (as would the penguins with a broad definition).

I see plenty of strengths in Cologne in the reptile, frsshwater fish and bird department, but that is less obvious when it comes to mammals. So this might actually be a very close contest!

 

[EliasNys]

- The Mangrove mudflat display as well as the manatees fit within this category.

But the mangrove is based on Belize, which is on the mainland right?

 

[lintworm]

But the mangrove is based on Belize, which is on the mainland right?

Yes it is inspired on Belize, but the fiddler crabs, upside-down jellyfish and four-eyed fish also occur on Caribbean islands (or Cape Verde & the Canary Islands in the case of the crabs).

 

[lintworm]

There is plenty to compare. But let's start with mammals.

Cologne has an advantage when it comes to species numbers (21 + a single elephant vs. 13), which is mainly caused by the Malagasy collection. But a number of Cologne's mammals are currently behind the scenes only.

Cologne:
Asian small-clawed otter (currently behind the scenes)
Black-and-rufous sengi (behind the scenes only)
Blue-eyed black lemur
Bornean orangutan
Coquerels sifaka
Ring-tailed vontsira
Giant jumping rat
Goodman's mouse lemur
Greater bamboo lemur
Javan banteng
Lesser hedgehog tenrec
Lion-tailed macaque
Mongoose lemur
Rodriquez flying fox
Northern Luzon cloud rat (currently behind the scenes)
Narrow-triped boky
Palawan porcupine
Sulawesi babirusa
Sun bear
Visayan spotted deer
Western woylie (currently behind the scenes)
(and a single Sri Lankan elephant)

Arnhem:
Antillean manatee
Asian small-clawed otter
Binturong
Black lemur
Javan banteng
Ring-tailed lemur
Rodriquez flying fox
Siamang
Sri Lankan leopard
Sumatran tiger
Sun bear
Pig-tailed macaque
Swamp wallaby

While Cologne has the species advantage including zoo nerd favourites, I would say that Burgers' has the clear exhibit advantage here. The Madagascar house, which I defended earlier as being not as bad as it was made out to be, is clearly inferior to Burgers' lemur island. The accommodation of e.g. lion-tailed macaque, banteng & sun bear is also clearly worse than what Burgers' can offer comparable species.

In terms of birds I would say Cologne has the advantage. Although a siginificant portion is kept behind the scenes (including birds-of-paradise and most of the interesting fruit doves) and the rainforest house is already being emptied because of a big renovation (which could start next month), there is is still the pheasantry and many of the waterfowl displays around the zoo with plenty of eligible species. Burgers' can counter with some 25-30 free-roaming species in mainly the Bush, but also a few in the Mangrove & Desert, but while exhibit quality is clearly higher, the numbers are not in their advantage.

When it comes to ectotherms it is basically the Ocean & Mangrove of Arnhem vs. the Aquarium & terrarium of Cologne. Cologne has an impressive terrarium with nicely designed terraria with many rarely kept species. Focus is strongly on Southeast Asia, but more Vietnam than Indonesia. Still enough species that would count here and clearly better than what Burgers' can offer in terms of reptiles and amphibians. That is limited to large terraria for water monitor & reticulated python and 1000s of free-roaming Guadeloupan anoles & Montserrat whistling frogs.

Cologne has an impressive set-up for breeding endangered freshwater fish, including many Malagasy & Indonesian species. They also have quite some coral reef aquaria. But the problem is that they are up against the Ocean, which is easily the best immersive aquarium in any zoo in my opinion. Where Cologne shines in breeding freshwater fish, Burgers' has an impressive reputation when it comes to breeding elasmobranchs and corals. Burgers' also has 2 of the very best ectotherm/invertebrate displays in any zoo with the 750.000 litre coral reef tank and the large mudflat with 100s of fiddler crabs.

So overall there is plenty to compare, but I would think Burgers' has the edge (while at first sight I thought it wouldn't). For mammals, fish & invertebrates it comes out on top, whereas for birds, reptiles & amphibians Cologne is the better one. It is the mudflat & coral reef display that give Burgers' the advantage in my opinion, but it is a close match.

 

[PossumRoach]

In terms of birds I would say Cologne has the advantage. Although a siginificant portion is kept behind the scenes (including birds-of-paradise and most of the interesting fruit doves) and the rainforest house is already being emptied because of a big renovation (which could start next month), there is is still the pheasantry and many of the waterfowl displays around the zoo with plenty of eligible species.

Call this nitpicking but the waterfowl exhibits being open top, and therefore requiring pinioning or wing-clipping could also disenchant some people.

 

[Haasje]

Thank you for your explanation and arguments @lintworm ; you have convinced me. Although it is indeed a closer match than I initially thought, there are some truly interesting species like the sifaka and the rest of the lemur collection in Cologne, against some great exhibits and a decent collection in Arnhem such as Burgers' Ocean, making it a hard choice. However, for fish and invertebrates, Burgers' takes the lead, and for birds, reptiles, and amphibians, Cologne has the edge. For mammals, I would say it's a toss-up. Given the few world-class, immersive habitats/ecodisplays at Burgers' zoo, the victory is theirs in my opinion.

 

[lintworm]

Here are some pictures to illustrate the points made above.

Banteng, Prince Alfred deer & babirusa exhibit in Cologne:

@twilighter

Banteng, siamang & pig-tailed macaque exhibit in Burgers' (with 3 deer species that don't count here)

@Mr. Gharial

@felis silvestris

Sun bear enclosure in Cologne:

@snowleopard (one of 2 grotto type enclosures for this species

Sun bear enclosure in Burgers, which is visually shared with binturong (picture shows 2/3):

@KevinB

Lion-tailed macaque outdoor cage (in theory they have access to the orangutan exhibit, but I never saw them use it) in Cologne:

@snowleopard

Orangutan in Cologne:

@lintworm

@lintworm

Ring-tailed vontsira in Cologne:

@RonBurrgundy

Madagascar house for the lemurs in Cologne:

@lintworm

@lintworm


Ring-tailed lemur & black lemur exhibit in Burgers':

@KevinB

@Mr. Gharial

@vogelcommando

Manatee enclosure at Burgers' (1 million litres):

@lintworm

@KevinB

Sumatran tiger at Burgers':

@Mr. Gharial (when the bamboo was recently pruned)

Main Sri Lankan leopard enclosure:

@felis silvestris

For me the better quality in Burgers' outweighs the slight species advantage that Cologne offers in mammals.

 

[lintworm]

A big part of this match up takes place in the ectotherm departments of either zoo. In Cologne this is concentrated in one building, which is from the 1970s and follows a standard lay out.

The reptile part of the building:

@JigerofLemuria

@JigerofLemuria

The aquarium consists of 3 sections with small aquariums to the side and a large aquarium at the end (note that large is relative. In Burger's the large aquariums would be considered small):

Malagasy freshwater tank:

@lintworm

Australian lungfish tank (which actually gives them space to swim!):

@lintworm

@lintworm


That is quite incomparable to Burgers' Ocean which is a journey through the Indo-Pacific. Where you start at the beach:

@lintworm

Before descending past some rock pools with anemone (fish):

@lintworm

Then you start with a lagune, consisting of a shallow

@lintworm

and a deeper part

@lintworm

@Mr. Gharial

You then pass a reef canyon of some 7-8 meters deep with moray eels and other more predatory fish:

@lintworm

Before coming to the centrepiece: a living coral reef of 750.000 litres where part of the filtration is performed by the sponges that live in the tank. Feeding levels are also lower as many fish can find (part of) their diet in the tank itself. The corals have been growing so well they can even add more destructive species like parrot fish and recently a box fish. There is a moon cycle and changes in temperature throughout the year. With those methods they have gotten multiple of the 100 coral species in the tank to reproduce naturally. The corals grow so fast that many need pruning. So all in all it is a huge success story (and a very expensive tank to maintain ):

First view into the tank:

@lintworm

Second viewing window:

@lintworm

Main viewing window:

Detail:

@Therabu

Past some smaller aquaria, the showpiece for the average visitor follows with a view into the blue with sharks etc.. The viewing window of 20x5 metres was briefly the largest in the world when it opened 25 years ago. This tank holds 3 million litres:

@Mr. Gharial

What follows is a display of lanternfish and a smaller open ocean tank with some schooling fish:

@korhoen

The journey ends with a tunnel through the 1.7 million litre harbour tank which houses the breeding group of ocellated eagle rays (which have produced over 70 young):

@felis silvestris

That is the Ocean, but with the mudflat full of fiddler crabs there is a second extremely good invertebrate display in the zoo:

@Mr. Gharial

@KevinB

 

[TeaLovingDave]

A general note that despite the posts by @lintworm entirely omitting any discussion of the excellent elephant exhibit complex at Cologne when providing a photographic summary of the exhibits at the collection, presumably due to his observation that the elephant group currently only contains a single pure-ssp individual from an island population (although last I heard they actually have two) I think that it *should* count for the purposes of this match.... much the same as how we *are* counting the invertebrate exhibits in Mangrove at Burgers, on the grounds that some of the inhabitants also occur on islands despite the fact that the exhibit is intended to represent Belize.

@JigerofLemuria

@JigerofLemuria

That said, I think the arguments pushed by lintworm *have* convinced me to shift down to a 3:2 Cologne vote

 

[Kalaw]

With the caveat that I have only been to Burgers', I think that the Dutch collection is miles ahead in this category, and to be honest I am quite surprised that Köln is winning by so much. Currently comfortable with a 3-2 to Burgers', but unless persuaded otherwise I can see myself switching to 4-1 here.

I can't really contribute much in terms of an overview of the collection which lintworm hasn't done already to a very good standard. But I can justify my voting for Burgers' here by detailing where it excels more generally. And that is that there is a certain imagination to the majority of Burgers' exhibits here, as though they are genuine heartfelt attempts to show the public what an ecosystem is like, changing their perception of the natural world. The mudflat for Fiddler Crabs, which is nothing short of genius, best exemplifies this, but a dark room with flashlightfish, a 750,000 litre coral reef tank, an open ocean tank so carefully lit and presented that it seems to never end, and a mixed-species display with multiple primates and ungulates, are also creative, out-of-the-ordinary displays that so few zoos have; a breath of fresh air for the zoo enthusiast, and an unforgettable insight into nature for the less passionate visitor. And that isn't even mentioning the mastery of the Bush, a rainforest labyrinth which, benefitting from its many hidden pathways, offers a greater joy searching for birds, several of which count as island species, than anywhere else can. From what I can tell, and forgive me if I am wrong, Köln's exhibits are a little more generic here, the lungfish tank a possible exception; high-quality, yes, but essentially just slightly better versions of what an enthusiast would have already seen before.

Of course, innovation is only one factor - one that I value above most, but some others may not. But their coral breeding success alone demonstrates a certain technical mastery. A bit of me does feel as though the size of Burgers' coral tank, which means there is usually more water volume in between you and the coral, and thus the vibrance is a little diluted, makes it aesthetically inferior to others that I have seen, such as Zürich or Brest, but it is a work of art that deserves commendation all the same.

The best sun bear and gibbon enclosures which I have ever seen help Burgers' on the exhibit quality front here, as do the great tiger and manatee enclosures, and the free-ranging birds in the Bush - not sure if anything at Köln can rival them, maybe the orangutans and elephants? I also don't believe Burgers' has a single poor exhibit in this category, which Köln with the Madagascar Haus and the pinioned waterfowl certainly does, in my eyes. The German side definitely has a larger and arguably more 'interesting' rarity-wise collection, but even then Burgers' is not without its oddities. The manatees spring to mind, but the Ocean is packed with interesting saltwater fish; Japanese Wobbegong, Giant Shovelnose Ray, Blacktip Shark (not to be confused with the Blacktip Reef Shark, as this species is found at just one other zoo in Europe!), Goliath Grouper, Splitfin Flashlightfish, Great Barracuda, Mangrove Whipray and Occelated Eagle Ray amongst others. Personally, as someone whose childhood obsession was saltwater fish, seeing such oceanic icons as barracuda, flashlightfish, Goliath Grouper and eagle ray for the first time, completely by surprise, was possibly the highlight of my first Burgers' visit. So the collection-based discussion is by no means one-sided either.

Apologies if any of my above is unfair to Köln, a collection which I am not all too familiar with. But I think this is a real strength for Burgers', and I would urge all voters to consider that this category applies not only to terrestrial island species, but aquatic ones too, and likewise to the Caribbean as well as more traditional areas such as Madagascar and Australia.

 

[lintworm]

A general note that despite the posts by @lintworm entirely omitting any discussion of the excellent elephant exhibit complex at Cologne when providing a photographic summary of the exhibits at the collection, presumably due to his observation that the elephant group currently only contains a single pure-ssp individual from an island population (although last I heard they actually have two) I think that it *should* count for the purposes of this match.... much the same as how we *are* counting the invertebrate exhibits in Mangrove at Burgers, on the grounds that some of the inhabitants also occur on islands despite the fact that the exhibit is intended to represent Belize.

It feels dishonest to count the whole elephant complex just because 1 bull is of the Sri Lankan subspecies. If you want to count it, I would say only the bull enclosures count, as I have never seen him in the main enclosure.... Counting the whole elephant complex feels like it is equally right to include the Persian leopards from Cologne and the Burmese browl-antlered deer from Burgers', they as a species also occur on islands...

The comparison with the Mangrove is not a correct one. That would be more like claiming that you could not count most of the species in the Masoala rainforest in Zurich because they don't actually occur in Masoala.... The species that are exhibited fit the category, that the enclosure in which they are housed is based on something outside the category is not relevant.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

It feels dishonest to count the whole elephant complex just because 1 bull is of the Sri Lankan subspecies. If you want to count it, I would say only the bull enclosures count, as I have never seen him in the main enclosure....

It's no worse than counting the poor quality of the bull enclosures at Zoo Berlin against said collection, even though they were no longer occupied when the match in question rolled around but point taken. In any case, I should clarify that its a case of "I personally think it should count" rather than an ex cathedra proclamation that it *does* count

The species that are exhibited fit the category, that the enclosure in which they are housed is based on something outside the category is not relevant.

Given the fact that you've been among the foremost to argue throughout the Cup that the exhibit itself should be the higher priority for consideration when determining a vote, rather than the species held within, I think its entirely relevant

 

[lintworm]

Given the fact that you've been among the foremost to argue throughout the Cup that the exhibit itself should be the higher priority for consideration when determining a vote, rather than the species held within, I think its entirely relevant

You know just as well as I do that that is not what I mean.

Btw, you still need to change your vote

 

[TeaLovingDave]

You know just as well as I do that that is not what I mean.

Btw, you still need to change your vote

I did so immediately after hitting "post" on the above so great minds think alike!

 

[lintworm]

Interestingly there are surprisingly few pictures of the bird exhibits at Cologne, even though there are plenty of them. By going through Zootierliste it appears there aren't too many exhibits in Cologne with true island / Oceania species. There are still quite a number around, but the advantage is smaller than I first thought.

The bulwark of birds at Cologne is the Pheasantry and here there are some 4 aviaries with relevant species. 2 small, but well-designed Australian aviaries house several smaller parrots, some obligatory ducks as well as bush thick-knee and masked lapwing. Noteworthy is that Cologne was the first European zoo in recent decades to import wild-type budgerigars, which have started spreading since. There are no pictures of these aviaries around. Additionally there is a Malagasy aviary with crested ibis, Madagascar turtle dove, fody & blue coua (and some non-Malagasy birds IIRC). Also no picture, but it is similar in size to this one:

@Toddy

The former hippo enclosure is now an aviary with among others a selection of ducks that occur in Madagascar (and mainland Africa), Malagasy sacred ibis, Madagascar pond heron (and on my most recent visit also milky stork):

@lintworm - vegetation has grown since this picture was taken, so it looks more attractive now.

The wonderful S-American house has Cuban ground doves, crested quail-dove & soccoro pigeon (and plenty of other birds & primates):

@twilighter

A large variety of Oceanian waterfowl species is kept on one large pond, with more special species like NZ scaup in side enclosures. Other ponds house species that also occur in the Caribbean (either regular or only as winter visitors) or Indonesia.

@Hvedekorn

Normally the rainforest house would be the place to see a large variety of Indonesian bird species (there used to be some 30 species on show IIRC), but after the recent fire & first renovation and the coming renovation, I am not sure how many species are actually on show. For sure most of the rarest pigeons & doves as well as the birds-of-paradise remain off-show. This is a picture from before the fire:

@lintworm

Burgers' Zoo clearly has less island birds on-show, but there is still quite a variety including 2 that are unique for Europe and plenty of other rarely kept species, often with good breeding results. The Bush holds the following:

Madagascar crested ibis
Victoria crowned pigeon
Green naped pheasant pigeon
Pinon imperial pigeon
Green imperial pigeon
Luzon bleeding heart pigeon
Grey-capped emerald dove
Nicobar pigeon
Superb fruit dove
Crested quail dove
White-rumped shama
Chestnut-backed ground trush
Fairy bluebird
Scissor-billed starling
Montserrat oriole
Madagascar red fody
Red-whiskered bulbul
White-eared catbird

The Desert has:
Socorro pigeon
Blue-winged teal
Painted bunting
Common ground dove

And the Mangrove has:
Red-legged honeycreeper
Indigo bunting

For each zoo I have excluded species that are basically mainland species, but also occur on a few (small) islands, like Trinidad, Zanzibar or Great Britain. Including those would mean that almost any species becomes an island species, especially when it comes to birds.

Overall Cologne outnumbers Burgers' in birds in something like 3-1, not counting species only held off-shwo. but a sizable part of the collection advantage are pinioned waterfowl, from an exhibit standpoint, Burgers' remains superior, though the average level of aviaries in Cologne is good too.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'd be rather interested to hear from whichever individual switched from 3:2 Cologne to 3:2 Burgers since last evening as regards their thought process ditto @Kalaw regarding whether he still feels the match is as heavily-weighted towards Burgers now that more has been posted about the many strengths of Cologne!

 

[EliasNys]

I'd be rather interested to hear from whichever individual switched from 3:2 Cologne to 3:2 Burgers since last evening as regards their thought process ditto @Kalaw regarding whether he still feels the match is as heavily-weighted towards Burgers now that more has been posted about the many strengths of Cologne!

I did, since I had not visited both zoos ( even though i have been in the vicinity of Burgers a lot before I became a zoo fan ) and upon looking at the reviews and pictures posted by @lintworm @TeaLovingDave and @Kalaw, I decided to switch to Burgers.

 

[Kalaw]

ditto @Kalaw regarding whether he still feels the match is as heavily-weighted towards Burgers now that more has been posted about the many strengths of Cologne!

I'm not sure. Köln seems to lack anything truly astonishing or out-of-the-ordinary other than maybe the lungfish tank and the elephant complex, although much like lintworm I am quite dubious about whether or not we should even count the latter in its entirety, and it has quite a bit of weakness. That said the extent of Köln's bird collection really appeals to me, and in particular I find myself enchanted by that Madagascan Aviary, which appears to be a brilliant repurposing of a historic building for more suitable, smaller inhabitants (reminds me quite a lot of Antwerp's Buffalo Savannah although of course without a large mammal; out of curiosity which of the two came first). Then again, the pinioned waterfowl are a little off-putting for myself, especially when one considers just how much flight space all the birds at Burgers' are provided with.

Ultimately, I think the matter is one-sided due to no fault of Köln's, but due to the excellence of Burgers': the main Ocean tank, so carefully lit that it appears to never end with the illusion of sharks and groupers emerging out of the abyss, the coral tank, the mudflat, the dark room with flashlightfish. All these tanks show a level of craft and genius that so few zoos can compete with. To have all that along with world-class outdoor enclosures for mammals in the Rimba and Park eligible for the category, and to be honest I think there are very few zoos in this tournament against which I wouldn't vote 4-1 Burgers' where 'islands' is concerned.

That said, it is a bit closer than I had initially thought. I still feel quite comfortable with a 4-1, but am closer to a 3-2 now than I was before. I will certainly have to give the subject a little more thought as tonight's deadline approaches.