European (Tea)Cup - League C - London & Whipsnade vs Burgers

London & Whipsnade vs Burgers - MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS

  • ZSL 5/0 Burgers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ZSL 4/1 Burgers

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Burgers 5/0 ZSL

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    33
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
The next match from Division C will be an interesting one I think; the pair of collections which are managed by the Zoological Society of London came within a hair of victory during their first match, whilst their competitor is often regarded as the best in the Netherlands (and perhaps even the Low Countries as a whole).

The category is a very broad one - MISCELLANEOUS MAMMALS. As long as it isn't hoofstock, a primate or a carnivore, it is fair game! How you interpret the category beyond there is up to you.....
 
Off the top of my head I'm not sure where I am going to stand on this one, so I reckon I'm definitely going to need the thoughts and input of others who know the current status quo at Burgers better than I before any vote can be made :rolleyes::D
 
I imagine battle between Burger's Mangroves Manatees/ Bush free flying Fruit bats and Desert Rodent tunnel on one side and Rainforest/Nocturnal House at London on the oher. Difficult category for ZSL against Burgers. I will give the lead to the Duch zoo for now.
 
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Species lists taken from zootierliste. Please correct me if i've made an error.

Burgers -
  1. Aardvark
  2. West Indian manatee
  3. Black-tailed prairie dog
  4. Cactus deermouse
  5. Capybara
  6. Hispid cotton rat
  7. Lyle's flying fox
  8. Merriam's kangaroo rat
  9. North American porcupine
  10. Rodriguez flying fox
  11. Seba's short-tailed bat
  12. Swamp wallaby
London/Whipsnade -
  1. Cape porcupine X 2
  2. Eurasian harvest mouse
  3. Giant jumping rat
  4. Large hairy armadillo
  5. Lesser hedgehog tenrec
  6. Linnaueus' two-toed sloth
  7. Naked mole-rat
  8. Northern treeshrew
  9. Rodriguez flying fox
  10. Southern tamandua
  11. Southern three-banded armadillo
  12. Aardvark
  13. Hazel dormouse
  14. Patagonian mara
  15. Red-necked wallaby
 
Species lists taken from zootierliste. Please correct me if i've made an error.

Burgers -
  1. Aardvark
  2. West Indian manatee
  3. Black-tailed prairie dog
  4. Cactus deermouse
  5. Capybara
  6. Hispid cotton rat
  7. Lyle's flying fox
  8. Merriam's kangaroo rat
  9. North American porcupine
  10. Rodriguez flying fox
  11. Seba's short-tailed bat
  12. Swamp wallaby
London/Whipsnade -
  1. Cape porcupine X 2
  2. Eurasian harvest mouse
  3. Giant jumping rat
  4. Large hairy armadillo
  5. Lesser hedgehog tenrec
  6. Linnaueus' two-toed sloth
  7. Naked mole-rat
  8. Northern treeshrew
  9. Rodriguez flying fox
  10. Southern tamandua
  11. Southern three-banded armadillo
  12. Aardvark
  13. Hazel dormouse
  14. Patagonian mara
  15. Red-necked wallaby
I never thought ZSL would have more species than an opponent in this ( or a lot of other categories).
This could be closer than I thought!
Not much in it species wise, most of ZSL's exhibits are at least ok or good and from what I've seen on here most of Burgers are good.
The Manatee sway it for me though so 3-2 Burgers for now
 
I never thought ZSL would have more species than an opponent in this ( or a lot of other categories).
This could be closer than I thought!
Not much in it species wise, most of ZSL's exhibits are at least ok or good and from what I've seen on here most of Burgers are good.
The Manatee sway it for me though so 3-2 Burgers for now

ZSL probably has more species in every category compared to Burgers' Zoo, whose core strength is not numbers, but quality. 2 of the worst enclosures in Burgers fall in this category though, aardvark and capybara, but that says more about the rest than these exhibits, as they are still fine.
 
The first match in which I have visited both zoos in their entirety, and therefore feel comfortable in providing an overview.

Starting off with London's offerings, then moving on to Whipsnade and then to Burgers'.

ZSL:

Southern Tamandua, Rodriguez Flying Fox, Linnaueus' Two-toed Sloth, Southern Three-banded Armadillo:

full


Credit: @Mr.Weasel - a really impressive, open-fronted exhibit within the Clore Pavilion. As well as the sloths, tamanduas and flying foxes, there are also some non-category primates, as well as a tortoise, with the sakis in particular bringing a lot of life to the enclosure. Being a rainforest house, the humidity is of course very commendable, but the real highlight is the sheer amount of climbing on offer - a network of branches, ropes and live trees which span not only every corner of the main enclosure, but also into the visitor pathways that surround it. The sloths and tamanduas breed fairly well here, with the latter being a highlight - subspecies-pure nominates, the only ones known to be of that status in Europe.

Malagasy Giant Jumping Rat:

full


Credit: @MagpieGoose - the smaller of the two enclosures for the species in 'Night Life,' with the larger of the two being shared with Pottos and Moholi Bushbabies. I think both the enclosures are excellent with soil, hollow logs and overhanging branches for retreats, and clever use of lighting to allow the animals to retreat at the back of the enclosure, or remain very visible in the foreground should they prefer.

Unsurprisingly, the other enclosures in Night Life aren't all too well documented, but they are all rather standard. A spacious Northern Treeshrew enclosure (if they have moved in yet, which I am not sure), nondescriept Eurasian Harvest Mouse and Lesser Hedgehog Tenrec enclosures, and unfortunately, your classic glass tunnel network for Naked Mole-rats which I truly believe is insufficient for the species offering them nothing whatsoever in terms of burrowing options.

Cape Porcupine:

full


Credit: @gulogulogulo - not really much to say here. A decent amount of space and plenty of privacy, but it is pretty much average.

Bennett's Wallaby:
full


Credit: @LaughingDove - this enclosure is often criticised for being a misuse of a huge and very historic space, but if you brush that aside and consider it solely as a wallaby enclosure, then it is excellent. Multiple, interconnected grassy pastures, shared with emus, featuring many mature trees and the historic Mappin Terraces as a scenic backdrop.

The only other species at London is the Large Hairy Armadillo, who are offshow in the Cassons. Now moving onto Whipsnade...

Cape Porcupine and Aardvark:

full


Credit: @ajmcwhipsnade - we have already discussed this enclosure in the Berlin / ZSL thread given that it also holds meerkats, but I must reiterate how good it is. 1,500 sqm is bigger than most zoos' lion enclosures, and here it is for porcupines and aardvarks! The hard-packed substrate to facilitate sufficient digging is brilliant, as is the shrubland feel being very densely planted, but never overgrown - what impresses me most is how mostly native lookalikes have been used, and yet it does feel like a savannah.

Bennett's Wallaby and Patagonian Mara:

No photos here, because it is the entire zoo - all 240 hectares of it! The animals are free-ranging in the woodlands and sprawling fields of Whipsnade, an as such have what is surely the best enclosure for either species in the world. And not just for the animals. For the visitors, the occasional glimpses of a wallaby head between the bushes, or watching maras graze on a distant field, is a mesmerising experience.

Hazel Dormouse:

Again no photos here because they are offshow, but I feel as though a special mentioned is merited for the reintroduction work ZSL do with this species. See here for more info.

Burgers':

West Indian Manatee:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a brilliant species, and they are displayed incredibly well. I believe this is one of the (if not the outright?) largest enclosures for the species in Europe, by both surface area and volume. It is also a real aesthetic triumph, with the excellent lighting, surrounding mangrove foliage, and the free-flying birds and butterflies all making for a far more tropical-feeling enclosure than most other habitats for the species in Europe. There is underwater viewing, too, and it would be wrong to discuss the Mangrove and not to touch on the excellent in situ work that the zoo performs in Belize working with the species.

Aardvark:

full


Credit: @KevinB - Burgers' is very well-known for their breeding success with aardvarks over the years, having been, I believe, the first European zoo to breed the species. This success deserves much praise, but unfortunately, their current enclosure in the Bush does not. Really rather poor, in my opinion, with substrate that doesn't really facilitate digging, and an overuse of concrete that makes the whole thing feel unattractive and immersion-breaking in the otherwise-excellent Bush.

Capybara:

full


Credit: @KevinB - not sure if I like this enclosure, having never seen it in person, or at least not with capybaras in it (my visit fell in the very brief window between the first capybaras passing away and new ones arriving), I can't speak too much from experience here. I like the pool (once held manatees) which is far more than what most zoos offer this relatively semi-aquatic species, but the land area strikes me as far too small for the species, with no grass whatsoever for an animal that actually grazes...

Lyles' and Rodriguez Flying Fox, Seba's Short-tailed Bat:

F-6T0_aDfpFRd756YynWSurZGs8uMr4EWXZo5Vzk1rvFsJul5sO0hozEEjIk_BQHo3qFMuOqFKTkfXB0K9LD7VkGmNtXyf1jtZIb7x5eN417azr6o4hNXTSnlZx8k6u-NWHMBD16G-2d0M9XUt8kSmI


Credit: @Kalaw - I praised the flying fox enclosure at London, but there isn't even a contest. The flying foxes at Burgers' are free-flight in a 1.3 hectare tropical house; few enclosures in the world can even compare to this. I don't need to elaborate, it is just amazing.

The Seba's also have another, rather nondescriept enclosure in the Bush-Desert tunnel, pictured below:

full

Credit: @Mr Gharial

North American Porcupine and Black-tailed Prairie Dog:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a huge enclosure that covers a large portion of the amazing Desert. A fair amount of substrate for the prairie dogs to dig in and some small trees for the porcupines to climb on. The two species also share with peccaries, who moved in after my visit.

Cactus Deermouse:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a fairly standard, but by no means poor, nocturnal enclosure for a very rare species in the tunnel that connects the Bush and Desert.

Merriam's Kangaroo-rat:

full


Credit: @felis silvestris - also in the Bush-Desert tunnel. A little small, but for such a tiny taxa it still isn't poor by any means. Burgers' is one of just two holders of this species in Europe.

Hispid Cotton Rat:

full


Credit: @felis silvestris - another small, but not poor enclosure. I quite like the design with the branch in front of the window that connects to a raised portion I believe hidden to visitors.

Swamp Wallaby:

full


Credit: @KevinB - an average-sized, but very attractively-designed, wallaby enclosure. Not comparable to either ZSL collection's offerings for wallabies, but still very pleasant.

Now this is a really, really tough call. By far the hardest decision I have had to make in this tournament so far. When I first saw it, I thought that the manatees, the fruit bats in the Bush, and the rarities in the Bush-Desert tunnel rendered it an easy win for Burgers'. But then I thought about the free-ranging wallabies and mara at Whipsnade, the unbelievable porcupine and aardvark enclosure, and the presence of some fairly poor enclosures at Burgers' (aardvark and capybara); but then London has a poor enclosure of its own in the mole-rats.

For me, I have settled on a 3-2 win for ZSL, which I believe is equal in exhibit quality (the bats in the Bush are nice, but the free-rangers at Whipsnade are in a league of their own), and marginally superior in species count. However, once you consider the quality of said collection it becomes a little more interesting, with Burgers' having three major rodent rarities, plus manatees! I still feel as though ZSL have the edge for now, but may be prompted to change soon - those manatees are irresistible!
 
I used Green_mamba's list and deducted animals found at both Burgers and ZSL. This left 10 for Burgers and 13 for ZSL. I also added points for animals represented in up to 10 collections, according to Zootierliste. This gave a final score of 21 for Burgers and 13 for ZSL. I have given the score 3-2 to Burgers

Considering how many species of mammals are not primates, hoofed mammals and carnivores, I feel that they are really poorly represented at the zoos in question, especially when compared to some other zoos, such as Plzen
 
Species lists are roughly similar, so I'm going on quality of exhibitry for this one. Much as I love ZSL and want them to do well in this challenge, the manatee pool at Burgers really edges it for me. It's a spectacular enclosure, one of my favourite animal houses I have ever seen.

Without the manatees, I think it would be 3/2 ZSL, but I have gone for 3/2 favouring Burgers.
 
For me, I have settled on a 3-2 win for ZSL, which I believe is equal in exhibit quality (the bats in the Bush are nice, but the free-rangers at Whipsnade are in a league of their own),

I don't know of any free-ranging bat exhibits at Whipsnade, and you didn't mention any? o_O

For me, the quality of the Mangrove and Bush make it a pretty easy choice - but much as is the case with you, I'm open to being swayed.
 
I don't know of any free-ranging bat exhibits at Whipsnade, and you didn't mention any? o_O
The 'free-rangers' was referring to the maras and wallabies, both category-relevant and having access to the entire zoo, which I did mention earlier in my post. I get it isn't really a fair direct comparison with the bats in the Bush, which is presumably why you misinterpreted, but I feel as though they are the strongest enclosures for the two respective zoos.

The more that I reminisce on my Burgers' visit and the joy of watching their manatees in particular, the more I feel inclined to switch my vote back in their favour, which I now have. But to be honest, I may still revert for the fourth time - this is just far too close for me to call, and the more I think about it the more I struggle.
 
Some more elaborations on Burgers' Zoo:

West Indian Manatee:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a brilliant species, and they are displayed incredibly well. I believe this is one of the (if not the outright?) largest enclosures for the species in Europe, by both surface area and volume. It is also a real aesthetic triumph, with the excellent lighting, surrounding mangrove foliage, and the free-flying birds and butterflies all making for a far more tropical-feeling enclosure than most other habitats for the species in Europe. There is underwater viewing, too, and it would be wrong to discuss the Mangrove and not to touch on the excellent in situ work that the zoo performs in Belize working with the species

This is not the largest manatee enclosure in Europe in terms of volume. Wroclaw is quite a bit larger (1.6 million litres vs 1 million litres), but in terms of design it is easily my favourite.

Aardvark:

full


Credit: @KevinB - Burgers' is very well-known for their breeding success with aardvarks over the years, having been, I believe, the first European zoo to breed the species. This success deserves much praise, but unfortunately, their current enclosure in the Bush does not. Really rather poor, in my opinion, with substrate that doesn't really facilitate digging, and an overuse of concrete that makes the whole thing feel unattractive and immersion-breaking in the otherwise-excellent Bush.

The enclosure is a fair bit bigger than is shown here, it goes around the corner and has another den there. There aren't pictures that show the full extent, but this pictures shows it a bit better:
full

@felis silvestris , still doesn't show the complete area. Additionally there is a secondary enclosure on the other side (connected with a tunnel), which is used for separation, but is often connected when there is no need to separate animals:
full

@KevinB

It isn't very big all in all, but the majority of the enclosure is thick mulch for digging. It can't compare with Whipsnade, but is still better than the majority of European aardvark enclosures I have seen so far.

Burgers' wasn't the first to breed aardvark in Europe, that honour goes to Amsterdam, but Burgers' Zoo is by far the most successfull breeder of this species in Europe (and I believe worldwide).

Cactus Deermouse:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a fairly standard, but by no means poor, nocturnal enclosure for a very rare species in the tunnel that connects the Bush and Desert.

Enclosure is not in the Bush-Desert tunnel, but somewhere else in the Desert. This enclosure holds only females, there is a large breeding set-up behind the scenes.

Merriam's Kangaroo-rat:

full


Credit: @felis silvestris - also in the Bush-Desert tunnel. A little small, but for such a tiny taxa it still isn't poor by any means. Burgers' is one of just two holders of this species in Europe.

There are 2 enclosures for Merriam's kangaroo rat, both can't really be described as small for such a species. The second is a bit larger (being originally designed for burrowing owl, for which it was far too small:
full

@felis silvestris

Merriam's kangaroo rat are a species that was originally imported to Europe by Burgers' Zoo and it is currently the only zoo in Europe to breed them. Like with the cactus deermouse there are more animals behind the scenes in a breeding set up.

Hispid Cotton Rat:

full


Credit: @felis silvestris - another small, but not poor enclosure. I quite like the design with the branch in front of the window that connects to a raised portion I believe hidden to visitors.

This is certainly not a small enclosure either for a rodent. This pictures only shows one of the 2 viewing panels, the other being this one:

full

@felis silvestris (There is a cotton rat for scale on the branch)

Swamp Wallaby:

full


Credit: @KevinB - an average-sized, but very attractively-designed, wallaby enclosure. Not comparable to either ZSL collection's offerings for wallabies, but still very pleasant.

Since the flamingo were moved, the former flamingo enclosure has been added to the wallaby area, so it is now several times larger and for a group of some 15 wallaby very spacious indeed.

While both zoos have their own very good set ups, I feel confident Burgers' is just a bit better across the board, with a more attractive collection, so 3-2 for the Dutch for me ;)
 
Some more elaborations on Burgers' Zoo:



This is not the largest manatee enclosure in Europe in terms of volume. Wroclaw is quite a bit larger (1.6 million litres vs 1 million litres), but in terms of design it is easily my favourite.



The enclosure is a fair bit bigger than is shown here, it goes around the corner and has another den there. There aren't pictures that show the full extent, but this pictures shows it a bit better:
full

@felis silvestris , still doesn't show the complete area. Additionally there is a secondary enclosure on the other side (connected with a tunnel), which is used for separation, but is often connected when there is no need to separate animals:
full

@KevinB

It isn't very big all in all, but the majority of the enclosure is thick mulch for digging. It can't compare with Whipsnade, but is still better than the majority of European aardvark enclosures I have seen so far.

Burgers' wasn't the first to breed aardvark in Europe, that honour goes to Amsterdam, but Burgers' Zoo is by far the most successfull breeder of this species in Europe (and I believe worldwide).



Enclosure is not in the Bush-Desert tunnel, but somewhere else in the Desert. This enclosure holds only females, there is a large breeding set-up behind the scenes.



There are 2 enclosures for Merriam's kangaroo rat, both can't really be described as small for such a species. The second is a bit larger (being originally designed for burrowing owl, for which it was far too small:
full

@felis silvestris

Merriam's kangaroo rat are a species that was originally imported to Europe by Burgers' Zoo and it is currently the only zoo in Europe to breed them. Like with the cactus deermouse there are more animals behind the scenes in a breeding set up.



This is certainly not a small enclosure either for a rodent. This pictures only shows one of the 2 viewing panels, the other being this one:

full

@felis silvestris (There is a cotton rat for scale on the branch)



Since the flamingo were moved, the former flamingo enclosure has been added to the wallaby area, so it is now several times larger and for a group of some 15 wallaby very spacious indeed.

While both zoos have their own very good set ups, I feel confident Burgers' is just a bit better across the board, with a more attractive collection, so 3-2 for the Dutch for me ;)
I think you have just tipped me over towards Burgers' (for now) with your elaborations! My thoughts were that the two organisations had similar quality collections, but ZSL had some standout exhibitry and Burgers' had some that was not so good, putting London and Whipsnade just ahead. However, I have reconsidered thanks to the work that Burgers' have done with some of their species (aardvark/kangaroo rat), the quality of the exhibits for wallabies and porcupines/prairie dogs, and the star power of manatees- which has done a lot of heavy lifting for my swing towards Burgers' in this tie, as otherwise there is no stand out species for me at all between the two collections. Of course I may still change my mind.
 
Some more elaborations on Burgers' Zoo:



This is not the largest manatee enclosure in Europe in terms of volume. Wroclaw is quite a bit larger (1.6 million litres vs 1 million litres), but in terms of design it is easily my favourite.



The enclosure is a fair bit bigger than is shown here, it goes around the corner and has another den there. There aren't pictures that show the full extent, but this pictures shows it a bit better:
full

@felis silvestris , still doesn't show the complete area. Additionally there is a secondary enclosure on the other side (connected with a tunnel), which is used for separation, but is often connected when there is no need to separate animals:
full

@KevinB

It isn't very big all in all, but the majority of the enclosure is thick mulch for digging. It can't compare with Whipsnade, but is still better than the majority of European aardvark enclosures I have seen so far.

Burgers' wasn't the first to breed aardvark in Europe, that honour goes to Amsterdam, but Burgers' Zoo is by far the most successfull breeder of this species in Europe (and I believe worldwide).



Enclosure is not in the Bush-Desert tunnel, but somewhere else in the Desert. This enclosure holds only females, there is a large breeding set-up behind the scenes.



There are 2 enclosures for Merriam's kangaroo rat, both can't really be described as small for such a species. The second is a bit larger (being originally designed for burrowing owl, for which it was far too small:
full

@felis silvestris

Merriam's kangaroo rat are a species that was originally imported to Europe by Burgers' Zoo and it is currently the only zoo in Europe to breed them. Like with the cactus deermouse there are more animals behind the scenes in a breeding set up.



This is certainly not a small enclosure either for a rodent. This pictures only shows one of the 2 viewing panels, the other being this one:

full

@felis silvestris (There is a cotton rat for scale on the branch)



Since the flamingo were moved, the former flamingo enclosure has been added to the wallaby area, so it is now several times larger and for a group of some 15 wallaby very spacious indeed.

While both zoos have their own very good set ups, I feel confident Burgers' is just a bit better across the board, with a more attractive collection, so 3-2 for the Dutch for me ;)
Thanks for the additional information, particularly in regard to the offshow breeding setup for some of the smaller rodents, very interesting. My memory of the whole Desert area is a little jaded hence my error regarding the placement of the deermouse enclosure, so apologies for that.

I do feel fairly confident that I made the right move in switching to 3-2 for Burgers', although it is a reluctant one. I feel as though I am on the same page as oflory here, in that without the manatees I may well be voting the other way...
 
Not an easy one for me, as I have not visited the Burgers zoo, though I have the other two, but some great photos and discussion already in this thread.

I do agree on the point of free ranging animals and I have to say they are one of my favourite things about Whipsnade. Of course my list of Whipsnade 'one of favourites' is quite long. Seeing them wandering about is a wonderful thing as mentioned by @Kalaw above. Coming across a Patagonian Mara bringing a new baby out of a burrow under the roots of one of Whipsnade's big trees still rates as one of my best visit experiences. And every year you can hunt out the 'Mara Creche' (it's always in different places but there are some common zones) where lots of youngsters will be together, running about and playing. On the light nights in the summer it's a particular treat to find a big group of Mara babies last thing when most people have gone home.

On the collection front in this category, Burgers and ZSL seem pretty well matched. Burgers have the rare rats and mice in numbers and the free flying bats offer a degree of difference. That enclosure looks impressive (do they fly a lot?). In terms of variety though ZSL does have more species across the two sites.

The Manatee enclosure at Burgers on the other hand is quite the point of difference, as well as being a landmark type of species that neither ZSL location has. Indeed it's not a species you can even see in the UK in any public collection as far as I am aware and I doubt they are in private hands (someone can correct me). The enclosure does look really good. And it has free flying birds and butterflies though of course London has free flight aviaries and Whipsnade the wonderful bird show, but the latter doesn't combine with a miscellaneous animal so cannot be used to influence this vote.

While I feel a little bad about swinging the vote on a single species and impressive enclosure, something has to split the two so I have gone 3/2 Burgers on the grounds that the Manatees are a significant point of difference, but I could be persuaded out of it. In a way it's a shame to see ZSL score 'low' in comparison as this is such a strong collection of animals for this category, but it's not right to vote the other way just to boost the numbers.
 
The first match in which I have visited both zoos in their entirety, and therefore feel comfortable in providing an overview.

Starting off with London's offerings, then moving on to Whipsnade and then to Burgers'.

ZSL:

Southern Tamandua, Rodriguez Flying Fox, Linnaueus' Two-toed Sloth, Southern Three-banded Armadillo:

full


Credit: @Mr.Weasel - a really impressive, open-fronted exhibit within the Clore Pavilion. As well as the sloths, tamanduas and flying foxes, there are also some non-category primates, as well as a tortoise, with the sakis in particular bringing a lot of life to the enclosure. Being a rainforest house, the humidity is of course very commendable, but the real highlight is the sheer amount of climbing on offer - a network of branches, ropes and live trees which span not only every corner of the main enclosure, but also into the visitor pathways that surround it. The sloths and tamanduas breed fairly well here, with the latter being a highlight - subspecies-pure nominates, the only ones known to be of that status in Europe.

Malagasy Giant Jumping Rat:

full


Credit: @MagpieGoose - the smaller of the two enclosures for the species in 'Night Life,' with the larger of the two being shared with Pottos and Moholi Bushbabies. I think both the enclosures are excellent with soil, hollow logs and overhanging branches for retreats, and clever use of lighting to allow the animals to retreat at the back of the enclosure, or remain very visible in the foreground should they prefer.

Unsurprisingly, the other enclosures in Night Life aren't all too well documented, but they are all rather standard. A spacious Northern Treeshrew enclosure (if they have moved in yet, which I am not sure), nondescriept Eurasian Harvest Mouse and Lesser Hedgehog Tenrec enclosures, and unfortunately, your classic glass tunnel network for Naked Mole-rats which I truly believe is insufficient for the species offering them nothing whatsoever in terms of burrowing options.

Cape Porcupine:

full


Credit: @gulogulogulo - not really much to say here. A decent amount of space and plenty of privacy, but it is pretty much average.

Bennett's Wallaby:
full


Credit: @LaughingDove - this enclosure is often criticised for being a misuse of a huge and very historic space, but if you brush that aside and consider it solely as a wallaby enclosure, then it is excellent. Multiple, interconnected grassy pastures, shared with emus, featuring many mature trees and the historic Mappin Terraces as a scenic backdrop.

The only other species at London is the Large Hairy Armadillo, who are offshow in the Cassons. Now moving onto Whipsnade...

Cape Porcupine and Aardvark:

full


Credit: @ajmcwhipsnade - we have already discussed this enclosure in the Berlin / ZSL thread given that it also holds meerkats, but I must reiterate how good it is. 1,500 sqm is bigger than most zoos' lion enclosures, and here it is for porcupines and aardvarks! The hard-packed substrate to facilitate sufficient digging is brilliant, as is the shrubland feel being very densely planted, but never overgrown - what impresses me most is how mostly native lookalikes have been used, and yet it does feel like a savannah.

Bennett's Wallaby and Patagonian Mara:

No photos here, because it is the entire zoo - all 240 hectares of it! The animals are free-ranging in the woodlands and sprawling fields of Whipsnade, an as such have what is surely the best enclosure for either species in the world. And not just for the animals. For the visitors, the occasional glimpses of a wallaby head between the bushes, or watching maras graze on a distant field, is a mesmerising experience.

Hazel Dormouse:

Again no photos here because they are offshow, but I feel as though a special mentioned is merited for the reintroduction work ZSL do with this species. See here for more info.

Burgers':

West Indian Manatee:

full


Credit: @KevinB - a brilliant species, and they are displayed incredibly well. I believe this is one of the (if not the outright?) largest enclosures for the species in Europe, by both surface area and volume. It is also a real aesthetic triumph, with the excellent lighting, surrounding mangrove foliage, and the free-flying birds and butterflies all making for a far more tropical-feeling enclosure than most other habitats for the species in Europe. There is underwater viewing, too, and it would be wrong to discuss the Mangrove and not to touch on the excellent in situ work that the zoo performs in Belize working with the species.

Aardvark:

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Credit: @KevinB - Burgers' is very well-known for their breeding success with aardvarks over the years, having been, I believe, the first European zoo to breed the species. This success deserves much praise, but unfortunately, their current enclosure in the Bush does not. Really rather poor, in my opinion, with substrate that doesn't really facilitate digging, and an overuse of concrete that makes the whole thing feel unattractive and immersion-breaking in the otherwise-excellent Bush.

Capybara:

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Credit: @KevinB - not sure if I like this enclosure, having never seen it in person, or at least not with capybaras in it (my visit fell in the very brief window between the first capybaras passing away and new ones arriving), I can't speak too much from experience here. I like the pool (once held manatees) which is far more than what most zoos offer this relatively semi-aquatic species, but the land area strikes me as far too small for the species, with no grass whatsoever for an animal that actually grazes...

Lyles' and Rodriguez Flying Fox, Seba's Short-tailed Bat:

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Credit: @Kalaw - I praised the flying fox enclosure at London, but there isn't even a contest. The flying foxes at Burgers' are free-flight in a 1.3 hectare tropical house; few enclosures in the world can even compare to this. I don't need to elaborate, it is just amazing.

The Seba's also have another, rather nondescriept enclosure in the Bush-Desert tunnel, pictured below:

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Credit: @Mr Gharial

North American Porcupine and Black-tailed Prairie Dog:

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Credit: @KevinB - a huge enclosure that covers a large portion of the amazing Desert. A fair amount of substrate for the prairie dogs to dig in and some small trees for the porcupines to climb on. The two species also share with peccaries, who moved in after my visit.

Cactus Deermouse:

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Credit: @KevinB - a fairly standard, but by no means poor, nocturnal enclosure for a very rare species in the tunnel that connects the Bush and Desert.

Merriam's Kangaroo-rat:

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Credit: @felis silvestris - also in the Bush-Desert tunnel. A little small, but for such a tiny taxa it still isn't poor by any means. Burgers' is one of just two holders of this species in Europe.

Hispid Cotton Rat:

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Credit: @felis silvestris - another small, but not poor enclosure. I quite like the design with the branch in front of the window that connects to a raised portion I believe hidden to visitors.

Swamp Wallaby:

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Credit: @KevinB - an average-sized, but very attractively-designed, wallaby enclosure. Not comparable to either ZSL collection's offerings for wallabies, but still very pleasant.

Now this is a really, really tough call. By far the hardest decision I have had to make in this tournament so far. When I first saw it, I thought that the manatees, the fruit bats in the Bush, and the rarities in the Bush-Desert tunnel rendered it an easy win for Burgers'. But then I thought about the free-ranging wallabies and mara at Whipsnade, the unbelievable porcupine and aardvark enclosure, and the presence of some fairly poor enclosures at Burgers' (aardvark and capybara); but then London has a poor enclosure of its own in the mole-rats.

For me, I have settled on a 3-2 win for ZSL, which I believe is equal in exhibit quality (the bats in the Bush are nice, but the free-rangers at Whipsnade are in a league of their own), and marginally superior in species count. However, once you consider the quality of said collection it becomes a little more interesting, with Burgers' having three major rodent rarities, plus manatees! I still feel as though ZSL have the edge for now, but may be prompted to change soon - those manatees are irresistible!

Thanks to @Kalaw for putting the time into the post above, it really does help. I haven't visited Burgers' for what it's worth, little caveat.

I'd vote for a draw if I could in this one, but if I'm honest it feels as if there's a lot of voting on the basis of a single species. The reality is that there are a dozen or so other species at each collection and, while I'd agree the manatee exhibit is good, I genuinely think there are equally impressive exhibits for different species at London. So it comes down to whether some species are sufficiently more important than others to decide it. At any rate, I think a 4-1 vote in Burgers' favour is far more egregious than 3-2 for ZSL.

On the points where direct comparison are possible:
  • Porcupines and aardvarks - excellent exhibits in ZSL, especially at Whipsnade, where they share 1450 sqm with aardvarks and meerkats. This is, as far as I know, the largest porcupine enclosure (and second largest aardvark enclosure I can think of at any rate) in the entire world (unless someone can find one for either taxon that is larger). Burgers on the other hand have what doesn't appear to be the best offerings for aardvark and a porcupine exhibit, which, while impressive in size has minimal climbing opportunities for an arguably strictly arboreal rodent. Evidently, what Whipsnade has for its porcupines and aardvarks is leagues above Burgers, so why are the manatees inherently worth more?
  • Wallabies - both ZSL zoos' exhibits for wallabies are better than Burgers, again, and I'd argue Whipsnade's offerings are far better.
  • Nocturnal rodents and so on - I'd argue ZSL has better exhibits here again (jumping rat and treeshrews vs the various rats at Burgers). It isn't a big difference but I think the treeshrew exhibit at London is by far the best I've seen for the species, while Burgers rat exhibits don't jump out as anything special, and if anything are a bit sparse, especially for the cotton rat, which doesn't live in sandy desert.
  • Bats - Burgers has a very good exhibit for its flying foxes, but so does ZSL. I think for the bats, there is very little difference between them. The short-tailed bat at Burgers doesn't look great but I'd need someone who's actually visited to confirm either way. I think overall there's very little difference between the two places with regards to bats.
I understand manatees are cool and their exhibits cost more than others, but on the basis of actually comparable exhibits, ZSL is either substantially better or matches Burgers. On top of this, ZSL has armadillos and tamanduas both in massive spaces in Night Life where they are effectively free ranging within the confines of the hall.

On the other hand, Burgers has an excellent manatee exhibit, granted, and a capybara exhibit that could use a little work. On the face of it, given the importance some people seem to place on manatees, I could see 3-2 either way being a very fair score. What tips me in favour of ZSL is that a lot of the spaces for the species in this category are the best offerings for their respective species that I've ever seen, while this isn't ostensibly the case with Burgers (I'd argue there are better manatee and flying fox exhibits, for example). But I'd posit 4-1 in either direction is unfair.
 
Thanks to @Kalaw for putting the time into the post above, it really does help. I haven't visited Burgers' for what it's worth, little caveat.

I'd vote for a draw if I could in this one, but if I'm honest it feels as if there's a lot of voting on the basis of a single species. The reality is that there are a dozen or so other species at each collection and, while I'd agree the manatee exhibit is good, I genuinely think there are equally impressive exhibits for different species at London. So it comes down to whether some species are sufficiently more important than others to decide it. At any rate, I think a 4-1 vote in Burgers' favour is far more egregious than 3-2 for ZSL.

On the points where direct comparison are possible:
  • Porcupines and aardvarks - excellent exhibits in ZSL, especially at Whipsnade, where they share 1450 sqm with aardvarks and meerkats. This is, as far as I know, the largest porcupine enclosure (and second largest aardvark enclosure I can think of at any rate) in the entire world (unless someone can find one for either taxon that is larger). Burgers on the other hand have what doesn't appear to be the best offerings for aardvark and a porcupine exhibit, which, while impressive in size has minimal climbing opportunities for an arguably strictly arboreal rodent. Evidently, what Whipsnade has for its porcupines and aardvarks is leagues above Burgers, so why are the manatees inherently worth more?
  • Wallabies - both ZSL zoos' exhibits for wallabies are better than Burgers, again, and I'd argue Whipsnade's offerings are far better.
  • Nocturnal rodents and so on - I'd argue ZSL has better exhibits here again (jumping rat and treeshrews vs the various rats at Burgers). It isn't a big difference but I think the treeshrew exhibit at London is by far the best I've seen for the species, while Burgers rat exhibits don't jump out as anything special, and if anything are a bit sparse, especially for the cotton rat, which doesn't live in sandy desert.
  • Bats - Burgers has a very good exhibit for its flying foxes, but so does ZSL. I think for the bats, there is very little difference between them. The short-tailed bat at Burgers doesn't look great but I'd need someone who's actually visited to confirm either way. I think overall there's very little difference between the two places with regards to bats.
I understand manatees are cool and their exhibits cost more than others, but on the basis of actually comparable exhibits, ZSL is either substantially better or matches Burgers. On top of this, ZSL has armadillos and tamanduas both in massive spaces in Night Life where they are effectively free ranging within the confines of the hall.

On the other hand, Burgers has an excellent manatee exhibit, granted, and a capybara exhibit that could use a little work. On the face of it, given the importance some people seem to place on manatees, I could see 3-2 either way being a very fair score. What tips me in favour of ZSL is that a lot of the spaces for the species in this category are the best offerings for their respective species that I've ever seen, while this isn't ostensibly the case with Burgers (I'd argue there are better manatee and flying fox exhibits, for example). But I'd posit 4-1 in either direction is unfair.

I had voted 3/2 Burgers and I do still think the Manatees are a significant point of difference, but I think the arguments made by Kalaw and now you for the Porcupine, Aardvark and Meerkats as well as the free roamers will flip me back the other way having thought about it. As you say I would vote a draw if it was an option. But I'll go from 3/2 Burgers to ZSL 3/2 and be content it was based on interesting discussion, rather than my natural preference!
 
In terms of species, it's so close (and with surprisingly little overlap) that this can be nothing but a 3-2 for me.

But Burgers gets the slight edge because, as my Dad would probably say, it's hard to counter the "obese seals".
 
A pretty solid victory for Burgers, but with a late-game surge for the ZSL collections that gained them potentially-valuable percentage points:

London & Whipsnade - 72/165 points - 43.636%
Burgers - 93/165 points - 56.364%
 
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