European (Tea)Cup - League D - Tierpark Berlin vs Nuremberg

[TeaLovingDave]

We have yet to have taken a look at the category of PRIMATES during this iteration of the Zoochat Cup - until now, when two of the largest and most well-loved zoological collections in Germany come head-to-head. Both have only a single match under their belts apiece, and in both cases they earned a convincing victory.... but only one can win this time!

I look forward to hearing what you all have to say in the matter

 

[TeaLovingDave]

This feels like it might be a reasonably close match, but my initial gut feeling is that based on the larger collection of primate species (both in numbers and general diversity), the recent flurry of new and renovated exhibits, and the presence of older exhibits such as that for Barbary Macaque which still hold up pretty well and make interesting use of the materials (post-war rubble) which were at hand during the earliest days of the collection, Tierpark Berlin merits a 3:2 vote.

 

[twilighter]

The resent developments and the exquisite collection including Coquerel Sifaka, Aye-aye, Guianan Bearded Saki and François Langur speak highly of the Tierpark Berlin's dedication to Primates. There are also brilliant Sulawesi Macaque mixed exhibit, Gibbon Islands, Gelada exhibit, Lemurs Walktrough exhibit, Barbary Macaque ruins etc.

Nuremberg has Gorillas, but the controversy around Guinea Babbons and significantly smaller collection stop me to give them more than a point.

4-1 for Berlin.

 

[Haasje]

As @twilighter describes the collections and exhibits at Tierpark Berlin have significantly improved over the past few years. Personally, I was particularly impressed by the langur habitat in the Himalayas and the new Sulawesi macaque enclosure. And of course, sifakas are always an amazing species to see!In contrast, Nuremberg doesn't quite have anything comparable that comes to mind. Right now, I'm leaning towards a strong 4-1 in favor of Tierpark, but it might even be a decisive 5-0.

 

[pipaluk]

Just checked zootierliste as I haven't been to Nuremberg. Was surprised to see it only has 7 species to 20 for Tierpark Berlin. Primates is not TB's greatest strength ( no great apes) but this looks like a very comfortable win given I can't remember any bad enclosures.

 

[oflory]

The langur enclosure in the Himalayas area is very strong - I haven't seen the Sulawesi macaque exhibit in person yet but it also looks pretty brilliant. The sifakas also win a point from me. Another 4/1.

 

[lintworm]

Berlin seems to have improved a lot in this category in recent years and it might well be Nurnberg's weakest taxonomical category.

Of the 7 primate species, the squirrel monkeys are currently kept behind the scenes, as their very good enclosure, part of the giraffe house, is under renovation. So that is more bad news for Nuernberg.

They do still have something to show though:

Crowned lemur aviary

@Philipine eagle

Gorilla & Barbary macaque enclosure:

@Philipine eagle

While the outdoor exhibit for the gorilla is great, the indoor accomodation looks very ugly and is quite low. It still offers plenty of movement and possibilities for the gorillas to split up:

@ralph

White-handed gibbons have access to a few cages:

@ralph

White-faced saki are free-roaming in the manatee hall:

@lintworm

Guinea baboons live in a rather old school enclosure:

@Philipine eagle

There was some uproar as the zoo communicated they might have to euthanize part of the troop because no one is apparently interested in baboons and the enclosure was overcrowded. After this message an Indian zoo was interested and they are still negotiating the move and in a latest twist of turns a second, potentially easier, alternative has been found. So to be continued...

 

[cornu aspersum]

Gorilla & Barbary macaque enclosure:

Are the trees accessible?

 

[lintworm]

Are the trees accessible?

At least for the barbary macaques they are and they use them.

 

[PossumRoach]

Gorilla & Barbary macaque enclosure:

This is going to sound like a silly question but do the gorillas and macaques ever get mixed? I was impressed when I saw a couple macaques in the outdoor gorilla enclosure when the big apes were staying inside during my visit in March last year. I have been wondering since then if the two simians ever live in harmony together.

 

[pipaluk]

Looks like there could be a case for 5-0 here, 3 to 1 on species and doesn't look like there is anything special about Nuremberg's enclosures -average at best.

 

[lintworm]

This is going to sound like a silly question but do the gorillas and macaques ever get mixed? I was impressed when I saw a couple macaques in the outdoor gorilla enclosure when the big apes were staying inside during my visit in March last year. I have been wondering since then if the two simians ever live in harmony together.

IIRC the gorillas can choose whether they want to be outside or not. It does sound logical that on a typical March day, they would spend most time indoors .

Looks like there could be a case for 5-0 here, 3 to 1 on species and doesn't look like there is anything special about Nuremberg's enclosures -average at best.

I wouldn't exactly call the gorilla, barbary macaque and white-faced saki enclosures average.

 

[pipaluk]

IIRC the gorillas can choose whether they want to be outside or not. It does sound logical that on a typical March day, they would spend most time indoors .



I wouldn't exactly call the gorilla, barbary macaque and white-faced saki enclosures average.

Sorry but from the photos they don't look anything better than average. I don't think the mixed saki exhibit justifies a point on its own given the massive species difference. You have voted 4-1 which for me is the minimum TB deserves, this is far nearer 5-0 than 3-2which has a lot of votes

 

[lintworm]

Sorry but from the photos they don't look anything better than average. I don't think the mixed saki exhibit justifies a point on its own given the massive species difference

The gorilla + barbary macaque is something that I wouldn't call average. All the trees are fully accessible for the macaques, so for them it is an enclosure that is far better than most macaque enclosures. For the gorillas it offers plenty of privacy and shade. It is somewhat smaller when measured than what it looks like in reality (some 1300 square metres excluding moats, so similar to London in terms of size).

It is also not as if Tierpark Berlin is full of amazing primate enclosures. There are a few pretty good ones, but especially the lemur housing (excluding the ruffed lemur walkthrough) would be far less than average if this gorilla outdoor enclosure is average.

 

[pipaluk]

The gorilla + barbary macaque is something that I wouldn't call average. All the trees are fully accessible for the macaques, so for them it is an enclosure that is far better than most macaque enclosures. For the gorillas it offers plenty of privacy and shade. It is somewhat smaller when measured than what it looks like in reality (some 1300 square metres excluding moats, so similar to London in terms of size).

It is also not as if Tierpark Berlin is full of amazing primate enclosures. There are a few pretty good ones, but especially the lemur housing (excluding the ruffed lemur walkthrough) would be far less than average if this gorilla outdoor enclosure is average.

My main argument is that a 3-2 vote cannot be justified given this is an absolute hammering on species and Nuremberg's exhibits look far from excellent several average which puts it nearer to 5-0 than 3-2 I would suggest, but 4-1 is possibly fair. But Nuremberg with 6 onshow species is possibly the worst in this category in the whole competition

 

[twilighter]

Few impressions from Tierpark Berlin

Gelada exhibit



Monkey House outdoor space Yellow-breasted Capuchin / Red Howler Monkey /
Guianan bearded saki



Rollway Monkey


François' langur exhibit , Himalaya



Sunda Pig-tailed Macaque exhibit


Lar Gibbon Islands


Indonesia exhibit - Sulawesi Crested Macaque / Babirusa / ASCO




Sifaka indoor


Barbary Macaque exhibit

 

[Dassie rat]

I based my score on the number of primates found at only one of the 2 zoos and added 3 points to Berlin for being one of 8 collections with Guianan bearded sakis

This gives a score of Berlin 17+3 = 20 Nuremberg 4

I'll score this 4-1 to Berlin

 

[pipaluk]

I based my score on the number of primates found at only one of the 2 zoos and added 3 points to Berlin for being one of 8 collections with Guianan bearded sakis

This gives a score of Berlin 17+3 = 20 Nuremberg 4

I'll score this 4-1 to Berlin

No extra points for the Aye Aye (7holders ) and Red Howler Monkeys (9 holders) and what about the sifaka?

 

[Dassie rat]

No extra points for the Aye Aye (7holders ) and Red Howler Monkeys (9 holders) and what about the sifaka?

I took the points from Zootierliste for all collections. Perhaps next time, I'll just use European collections.
.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I took the points from Zootierliste for all collections. Perhaps next time, I'll just use European collections.
.

Considering this is a Europe-only Cup, that might well be prudent if you want your personal voting criteria to have internal consistency