European (Tea)Cup - League F - Wroclaw vs Stuttgart

[TeaLovingDave]

Thus far in League F, Stuttgart has sat proceedings out - but it now gets the chance to prove itself once again, against a collection which (much like itself) is a distinct blend of modern high-quality and older and more-antiquated exhibitry. The category is a nice broad one - LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN - so there should be plenty to discuss!

As always, you have three days to decide which collection is the superior, with plenty to evidence to share, weigh and discuss on both sides - and as a general reminder, any 5-0 vote *must* be accompanied by sufficient explanation in order to be counted.... although naturally I would hope any vote will be accompanied by an explanatory vote anyway!

 

[twilighter]

Not the strongest category for both zoos, but I believe Stuttgart has more to offer.

Amazon house, Small Mammal house, Pampas exhibit, Spectacled Bear rocks and the extensive Bird collection are giving advantage to the German collection.

3:2 for Wilhelma

 

[Kalaw]

In the hopes of giving people more incentive to discuss (not having visited either collection, this is the only real contribution to the discussion I feel I can have), this could prove to be a decisive game. If I'm keeping track correctly, Tierpark Berlin and Prague are already guaranteed to progress, Leipzig is out, and the KMDA is almost guaranteed elimination. Wrocław is currently ahead (so would be level with Stuttgart should the German side win here), but Stuttgart has two games in hand so that may not mean much. In other words, the winner of this tie will become the favourite to advance in that third placed slot. Should Stuttgart win, however, it is not out of the question (albeit very unlikely and relying on percentage differential being favourable) that the KMDA zoos pull off a miraculous comeback and advance instead. Although of course there is a chance that I haven't been keeping track very well and everything that I just said is wrong!

As it stands, I have voted 3-2 Stuttgart for the reasons provided by twilighter above, but will be following very closely. The only other thing I have to add to that is the manatees at Wrocław (easily forgotten for this category as they are placed in an African exhibit) that are in fact Caribbean. Not enough for three points in and of themselves though, so I look forward to hearing more about the Polish zoo's offerings.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

If I'm keeping track correctly, Tierpark Berlin and Prague are already guaranteed to progress, Leipzig is out, and the KMDA is almost guaranteed elimination. Wrocław is currently ahead (so would be level with Stuttgart should the German side win here), but Stuttgart has two games in hand so that may not mean much. In other words, the winner of this tie will become the favourite to advance in that third placed slot. Should Stuttgart win, however, it is not out of the question (albeit very unlikely and relying on percentage differential being favourable) that the KMDA zoos pull off a miraculous comeback and advance instead. Although of course there is a chance that I haven't been keeping track very well and everything that I just said is wrong!

Best not to ponder over things too much I think, in any case although you're sensible enough not to do this, if too many people speculate on future matches, likely categories and suchlike there is a distinct risk that some people might try to tactically vote to ensure a certain result!

As it stands, I have voted 3-2 Stuttgart for the reasons provided by twilighter above, but will be following very closely. The only other thing I have to add to that is the manatees at Wrocław (easily forgotten for this category as they are placed in an African exhibit) that are in fact Caribbean. Not enough for three points in and of themselves though, so I look forward to hearing more about the Polish zoo's offerings.

I'll be breaking the two collections down anon - at present I've went for a 3-2 Wroclaw vote, but I think it is fairly likely that once I've actually looked at the two collections in detail I will change my mind!

 

[remar]

Not the strongest category for both zoos, but I believe Stuttgart has more to offer.

Kind of funny, that there are quite few zoos in generell where this category is one of the strongest. I remember the same statement at this category at least at one other match.

I'm kind of unsure how to count the manatees, as they are presented as an African species rather than an American at Wroclaw.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I'm kind of unsure how to count the manatees, as they are presented as an African species rather than an American at Wroclaw.

The manatees count within this category.

 

[Kalaw]

Best not to ponder over things too much I think, in any case although you're sensible enough not to do this, if too many people speculate on future matches, likely categories and suchlike there is a distinct risk that some people might try to tactically vote to ensure a certain result!

I take your point, and I’ll keep such remarks to myself in the future. My inner football fan really can’t help but follow the ‘standings’ as it were and see the path to progressions for each time, and by avoiding keeping track of the categories, it still maintains a nice element of surprise whenever a match is posted.

The manatees count within this category.

But would it potentially be fair for some voters to penalise Wrocław for the manatees should geographical accuracy in geo-exhibits be an important criterion to them?

 

[TeaLovingDave]

But would it potentially be fair for some voters to penalise Wrocław for the manatees should geographical accuracy in geo-exhibits be an important criterion to them?

Going by gut feeling I think that it would be far more reasonable going in the other direction - that is to say, that Wroclaw might be justifiably penalised by voters in an Africa category match for having the wrong species of manatee in an African exhibit complex - but I certainly wouldn't discount people's votes if they stated they were voting against Wroclaw for that reason in this match.... unless it was used as the justification for a 5-0 vote.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

WROCLAW

The biggest highlight for Wroclaw as far as this category is concerned is, of course, the manatee exhibit:

However, the zoo does contain a number of other good-to-very-good exhibits for category taxa, including:

A series of mixed exhibits for South American taxa, including guanaco, llama, rhea, and southern screamer:

Lowland Tapir exhibit

Chacoan Tapir exhibit

Squirrel Monkey exhibit

Spider Monkey exhibit

Bird House

There are several excellent mixed aviaries for category taxa in the bird house, including the following outdoor exhibit for Blue-throated macaw, Blue-headed macaw, Ringed teal and Comb Duck:

...and the following indoor aviary for Monserrat oriole, Brazilian tanager, Crested quail-dove, Sunbittern and Ringed Teal:

Terrarium

A fairly significant number of the species displayed within the Terrarium fall within the purview of this category, as follows:

Spoiler: INVERTEBRATES - 16 TAXA

Cockroaches

Peppered Cockroach (Archimandrita tessellata)
Atropus Roach (Blaberus atropos)
Orange-spotted Cockroach (Blaptica dubia)
Four-spotted Cockroach (Eublaberus distanti)
Warty Glowspot Cockroach (Lucihormetica verrucosa)

Arachnids

Mexican Black Velvet Tarantula (Aphonopelma caniceps)
Mexican Fireleg Tarantula (Brachypelma boehmei)
Smith's Red-knee Tarantula (Brachypelma smithi)
Chilean Rose Tarantula (Grammostola rosea)
Brazilian Salmon-pink Tarantula (Lasiodora parahybana)
Brazilian Black-and-White Tarantula (Nhandu coloratovillosus)
Trinidad Chevron Tarantula (Psalmopoeus cambridgei)
Curlyhair Tarantula (Tliltocatl albopilosus)
Mexican Red-rumped Tarantula (Tliltocatl vagans)

Stick Insects

Black Beauty Stick Insect (Peruphasma schultei)
Thorny Devil Stick Insect (Stilpnochlora couloniana)

Spoiler: FISH - 5 TAXA

Midas Cichlid (Amphilophus citrinellus)
Oscar (Astronotus ocellatus)
Tambaqui (Colossoma macropomum)
Banded Cichlid (Heros severus)
Spotted Pleco (Hypostomus plecostomus)

Spoiler: AMPHIBIANS - 14 TAXA

Frogs and Toads

Green-and-Black Poison Frog (Dendrobates auratus)
Yellow-banded Poison Frog (Dendrobates leucomelas)
Dyeing Poison Frog (Dendrobates tinctorius)
Blue Poison Frog (Dendrobates tinctorius var. "Azureus")
Anthony's Poison Frog (Epipedobates anthonyi)
Colorado River Toad (Incilius alvarius)
Mountain Chicken (Leptodactylus fallax)
Golden Poison Frog (Phyllobates terribilis)
Golfodulcean Poison Frog (Phyllobates vittatus)
Cane Toad (Rhinella marina)
Titicaca Water Frog (Telmatobius culeus)
Yucatan Casque-headed Tree Frog (Triprion petasatus)

Newts and Salamanders

Axolotl (Ambystoma mexicanum)

Caecilians

Rio Cauca Caecilian (Typhlonectes natans)

Spoiler: REPTILES - 46 TAXA

Turtles and Tortoises

Red-footed Tortoise (Chelonoidis carbonarius)
Chaco Tortoise (Chelonoidis chilensis)
Yellow-footed Tortoise (Chelonoidis denticulatus)
Galapagos Giant Tortoise (Chelonoidis niger)
White-lipped Mud Turtle (Kinosternon leucostomum)
Red-cheeked Mud Turtle (Kinosternon scorpioides cruentatum)
Carolina Diamondback Terrapin (Malaclemys terrapin centrata)
Gibba Toadhead Turtle (Mesoclemmys gibba)
Zulia Toadhead Turtle (Mesoclemmys zuliae)
Geoffroy’s Side-necked Turtle (Phrynops geoffroanus)
Hilaire’s Side-necked Turtle (Phrynops hilarii)
Western Twist-neck Turtle (Platemys platycephala melanota)
Incised Wood Turtle (Rhinoclemmys pulcherrima incisa)
Central American Wood Turtle (Rhinoclemmys pulcherrima manni)
Red-eared Slider (Trachemys scripta elegans)

Monitors and Allies

Haitian Giant Galliwasp (Celestus warreni)
Rio Fuerte Beaded Lizard (Heloderma horridum exasperatum)

Iguanas, Chameleons and Allies

Western Bearded Anole (Anolis barbatus)
Guadaloupe Anole (Anolis marmoratus)
Holguin Anole (Anolis noblei)
Dominican Anole (Anolis oculatus winstonorum)
Green Basilisk (Basiliscus plumifrons)
Brown Basilisk (Basiliscus vittatus)
Utila Spinytail Iguana (Ctenosaura bakeri)
Common Spiny-tailed Iguana (Ctenosaura similis)
Cuban Iguana (Cyclura nubila nubila)
Central American Green Iguana (Iguana iguana rhinolopha)
Eastern Casquehead Iguana (Laemanctus longipes)
Northern Curly-tailed Lizard (Leiocephalus carinatus)
Baja California Rock Lizard (Petrosaurus thalassinus)
Tree Runner (Plica plica)
Common Chuckwalla (Sauromalus ater)
Blue Spiny Lizard (Sceloporus cyanogenys)

Snakes

Boa Constrictor (Boa constrictor)
Cuban Boa (Chilabothrus angulifer)
Haitian Boa (Chilabothrus striatus striatus)
Cook's Tree Boa (Corallus cookii)
Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Epicrates cenchria)
Colombian Rainbow Boa (Epicrates maurus)
Desert Rosy Boa (Lichanura trivirgata gracia)
Checkered Gartersnake (Thamnophis marcianus)

Skinks and Allies

Caiman Lizard (Dracaena guianensis)
Red Tegu (Salvator rufescens)

Crocodilians

Colombian Spectacled Caiman (Caiman crocodilus crocodilus)
Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman (Paleosuchus palpebrosus)
Smooth-fronted Caiman (Paleosuchus trigonatus)

A summary of Stuttgart to follow.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

STUTTGART

Amazon House

This mostly contains free-flying birds and a handful of herps.

Spectacled Bear

South American Pampas

This mixed exhibit contains alpaca, greater rhea, patagonian mara and giant anteater.

Small Mammal House

This house contains the following category exhibit for southern tamandua and three-banded armadillo:

Parrot Terrace

Several of the aviaries in this exhibit complex contain category taxa, including the following examples:

Hyacinth Macaw

Hawk-headed Parrot and Vinaceous Amazon

General view of terraces:

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Anyone fancy making further arguments or raising additional points I have omitted?

For that matter, more people voting overall would be nice!

 

[CrashMegaraptor]

Sorry, a bit out of my league (no pun intended) for this one. I couldn't even reliably pick one based on just the screenshots, they both look rather equal to me.

Although I'm seeing Wroclaw has nine species of tarantula alone that are applicable for this category and my first thought is "that is ten species too many".

 

[Paul.Haerle]

alpaca

Since a few days they're replaced by Vicuñas. In the enclosure beside it, there are also Lowland Tapirs and in this area is also a enclosure for Maned Wolves.
In the greenhouse at the entrance is a South America aviary with Yellow Oriole, Scaled Pigeon, Spangled Cotinga and other birds.
In the Amazon House you can find White-faced Saki together with Linnaeus‘s Two-toed Sloth, Golden-headed Lion Tamarin and Yellow-footed and Red-footed Tortoise, Black Howler together with Goeldi's Marmoset, Green Anaconda, Common Tree Boa together with Giant Leaf Frog and Palmar Tree Frog, Green Oropendola together with Crimson-bellied Parakeet and Solitary Tinamou(in a seperate aviary), six Dendrobates species and Broad-snouted Caiman with Arapaima and Black Pacu. Free flying/running species are Linneaus‘s Two-toed Sloth, Pygmy Marmoset, Chaco Chachalacha, Yellow Oriole, Brazil Tanager, Turquoise Tanager, Blue-backed Grassquit, Chestnut-eared Aracari, Green Iguana, Plumed Basilisk, Anthony's Poison Arrow Frog, Smooth-sided Toad and Seba‘s Short-tailed Bat.
And in the aviary area are three South America aviaries with Green Oropendolas, Toco Toucans and others.

 

[remar]

One should also mention that Wilhelmas Aquarium & Terrarium house offers something too for this category. Mostly at the aquarium section, but i think some herps too. Probably most notable is a large electric eel.

I think i'm going with 3:2 for Stuttgart.

 

[Haasje]

Thank you for the clear and informative presentation, @TeaLovingDave .

Personally, my visit to Wrocław left me somewhat underwhelmed when it comes to their representation of animals from Latin America and the Caribbean. The manatees were decent, but their enclosure is fairly standard, not particularly impressive, but it does the job. The tapir, on the other hand, is kept in the old elephant house. While that building is architecturally and historically beautiful, it’s in poor condition and looks like it hasn’t seen a fresh coat of paint in decades. It’s practically crumbling, which is quite a shame.

This contrast only reinforces my preference for Stuttgart in this category, leading me to vote 1-4 in favour of Stuttgart with often nice and modern enclosures.

While Stuttgart might not have a standout species like the manatee, its collection is strong and thoughtfully presented. The Green Oropendolas in the elegant Amazon House are a great example, and I was particularly impressed by the enclosure for spectacled bears, which combines a naturalistic layout with striking architecture.

Additionally, we shouldn’t overlook the botanical aspect of Stuttgart’s exhibit, I was genuinely and positively surprised by the quality when I visited last year.

Finally, it's worth mentioning that Stuttgart is actively involved in conservation, such as through the Shipstern project in Belize, in collaboration with institutions like Burgers' Zoo.

Given that options 2-4 isn't availible, I firmly believe Stuttgart deserves the 1-4 vote.

 

[Philipine eagle]

I have visited both collections very recently and will vote for Stuttgart.

With the Amazonienhaus and the Spectacled bear enclosure the Wilhelma has 2 exhibits in this category which Wroclaw cannot counter with anything of the same class.

Look at this stunning bear enclosure:



or the dense tropical forest in the Amazonienhaus where the oppressive humid heat literally presses down on you, interrupted only by the fresh breeze caused by 2 chacolacas skimming past your head. Birds and poison dart frogs can be heard everywhere.



This is followed by a beautiful butterfly conservatory that is also home to Cuban grassquit.



It is followed by a complex of several aviaries with a large one for Green oropendola, Giant woodrail, Scarlet ibis, Cattle egret, Guira cuckoo and Bronze-winged duck. There's another interesting aviary in the botanical complex right after the entrance, showing Red-legged honeycreeper, Violaceous euphonia, Bay-headed tanager (now gone I think), Blue-necked tanager and Red-pileated finch.

 

[Paul.Haerle]

a large one for Green oropendola, Giant woodrail, Scarlet ibis, Cattle egret, Guira cuckoo and Bronze-winged duck

No, that are two separate aviaries.

Red-legged honeycreeper, Violaceous euphonia

They moved into the old hummingbird aviary in the Small Mammal and Bird House.
In this house there are also Greater Roadrunners.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Not a terribly close result, nor a terribly active match, but worthwhile nonetheless:

Wroclaw - 41/95 points - 43.158%
Stuttgart - 54/95 points - 56.842%
.