European (Tea)Cup - PRESTIGE LEAGUE - Beauval vs Stuttgart

[TeaLovingDave]

This one should be a very interesting one, I reckon - the category is AFRICA, and you have three days to discuss, debate and present your evidence!

 

[amur leopard]

I'd really like someone to do an overview of what Stuttgart has in this category but I strongly believe Beauval beats pretty much any (non Dvur/Sigean) zoo in Europe in this category. I have a bit of spare time today so will do a run through.

Picture creds: @SivatheriumGuy, @Antoine, @Maguari, @twilighter, @Haliaeetus, @Maxime,

Starting off with one of the biggest African elephant exhibits in Europe, with a total area of around 20,000 square metres.

Plus a dik-dik exhibit next door which I can't find pictures for.

A couple of exhibits for Okapi (strong breeding record) and Yellow backed duiker (mixed):

Two large islands for gorillas (one of which is mixed with Patas monkeys):

Chimpanzee island (about 2,000 sqm):

4,000 sqm for Somali wild ass, Beisa oryx and Kafue lechwe:

African savanna with wildebeest, giraffe, white rhino, sable antelope, Dama gazelle, Grevy's zebra and springbok (maybe more, can't remember). 10,000sqm, varied terrain. Plus bat-eared foxes and meerkats right next to it.

Now the more recent developments:

Lion enclosure, with a walkthrough tunnel, plus Naked mole rats, Ringed wall gecko and Emperor flat lizard next door.

And a wild dog exhibit nearby which doesn't appear to have any pictures on ZC.

Exhibit for a ten-strong pack of Spotted hyena:

New-ish exhibit for cheetahs:

 

[amur leopard]

Of course the Hippo Aviary, with Nile hippos plus Pink backed pelicans, Abdim's stork, Yellow billed stork, Marabou stork, African openbill, Grey crowned cranes, White headed vulture, Palm nut vulture, Cape teal, White headed duck, Blue winged goose, African sacred ibis, Hadada ibis, Southern bald ibis and so on.

Lowland nyala, also within the aviary:

Red river hog, also within the aviary (background of this image, the foreground is still hippos):

And meerkats on the side:

Lesser kudu, in the same area:

Bongo, also in the same area:

Then the dome:

Radiated tortoises indoor and out:

Walkthrough for Rodriguez flying fox, Aldabra giant tortoise, African pygmy goose, Von der Decken's hornbill, Emerald starling, Long tailed glossy starling and Coconut crabs (although iirc these may be gone):

Pygmy hippo:

Other miscellaneous exhibits:

Barbary macaques

Large islands for Kikuyu guereza and Ring tailed + BAW ruffed lemurs:

A new exhibit called les Rocs de Dodoma, for Crested porcupine, Rock hyrax, dik-dik, meerkat and bat-eared fox - no photos in gallery and the best I could find online were those at this link:
Le ZooParc de Beauval présente quatre nouveautés animalières en 2025 - Nature et Zoo

Are are also exhibits for Red-tailed moustached monkey (very rare in Europe), De Brazza's guenon, Diana monkey and so on which I can't find photographic representation of. There's a bunch of reptile exhibits scattered around as well, plus many African birds in the aviary, and many of these form part of the outstanding flight display/show.

Overall, tough to beat. Parking at 3-2 right now but it's between that and 4-1 for me, will wait and see what Stuttgart has in this category.

 

[remar]

For sure not the best category for Stuttgart, with some rather ugly but still good hoofstock exhibits at the upper part of the zoo. At least the stock list is fabulous with Somali wild ass, Grevy zebra, Dorcas gazelle, Bongo, dik-dik, Okapi and scimitar horned oryx. The Giraffe indoors is outdated. The African ape exhibits with Gorillas and Bonobos are imo pretty good, but just as ugly as most of the upper part of the zoo. Then there is again the mix of Barbary sheep, gelada and the rock hyraxes that work pretty well and two cheetah exhibits at different parts of the zoo. There is one nice walkthrough aviary, but not even nearly as impressive as Beauvals Hippo aviary and another aviary at the small mammal and bird house. Several ectotherms are kept at the Aquarium building. Probably the biggest asset, which maybe is enough to prevent them from a 1:4 are the Malagasy civets.

 

[Paul.Haerle]

For sure not the best category for Stuttgart, with some rather ugly but still good hoofstock exhibits at the upper part of the zoo. At least the stock list is fabulous with Somali wild ass, Grevy zebra, Dorcas gazelle, Bongo, dik-dik, Okapi and scimitar horned oryx. The Giraffe indoors is outdated. The African ape exhibits with Gorillas and Bonobos are imo pretty good, but just as ugly as most of the upper part of the zoo. Then there is again the mix of Barbary sheep, gelada and the rock hyraxes that work pretty well and two cheetah exhibits at different parts of the zoo. There is one nice walkthrough aviary, but not even nearly as impressive as Beauvals Hippo aviary and another aviary at the small mammal and bird house. Several ectotherms are kept at the Aquarium building. Probably the biggest asset, which maybe is enough to prevent them from a 1:4 are the Malagasy civets.

In the giraffe indoors there are Congo Peafowl, Von Der Decken’s Hornbill and Fennec Fox too.
In the small mammal and bird house are three aviaries housing African Pygmy Falcon (1), Orange-breasted Waxbill, Purple Grenadier, Sudan Golden Sparrow, Emerald Starling, Bioko Munia, Black and Rufous Sengi, Harlequin Quail (2) Long-toed Lapwing, Rufous-collared Stone Pratincole, Black-bellied Sandgrouse, Allen‘s Gallinule, African Pygmy Goose, Red-throated Beeeater and Bruce‘s Green Dove (3).
Yes that isn’t enough to get a 3:2 for the Wilhelma, but together with @remar ‘s post it should be enough to prevent a 1:4.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

For sure not the best category for Stuttgart, with some rather ugly but still good hoofstock exhibits at the upper part of the zoo. At least the stock list is fabulous with Somali wild ass, Grevy zebra, Dorcas gazelle, Bongo, dik-dik, Okapi and scimitar horned oryx. The Giraffe indoors is outdated. The African ape exhibits with Gorillas and Bonobos are imo pretty good, but just as ugly as most of the upper part of the zoo. Then there is again the mix of Barbary sheep, gelada and the rock hyraxes that work pretty well and two cheetah exhibits at different parts of the zoo. There is one nice walkthrough aviary, but not even nearly as impressive as Beauvals Hippo aviary and another aviary at the small mammal and bird house. Several ectotherms are kept at the Aquarium building. Probably the biggest asset, which maybe is enough to prevent them from a 1:4 are the Malagasy civets.

In the giraffe indoors there are Congo Peafowl, Von Der Decken’s Hornbill and Fennec Fox too.
In the small mammal and bird house are three aviaries housing African Pygmy Falcon (1), Orange-breasted Waxbill, Purple Grenadier, Sudan Golden Sparrow, Emerald Starling, Bioko Munia, Black and Rufous Sengi, Harlequin Quail (2) Long-toed Lapwing, Rufous-collared Stone Pratincole, Black-bellied Sandgrouse, Allen‘s Gallinule, African Pygmy Goose, Red-throated Beeeater and Bruce‘s Green Dove (3).
Yes that isn’t enough to get a 3:2 for the Wilhelma, but together with @remar ‘s post it should be enough to prevent a 1:4.

Thanks for these brief summaries of what Stuttgart has to offer - hopefully someone will provide more in-depth photographic evidence soon to demonstrate that (as I believe is the case) Stuttgart merits at least two points. I'd rather the task not fall to me, but if no one comes forward in the next day or so I shall see what I can do.

For now, I will put the argument forward that IMO the Beauval chimpanzee and gorilla exhibits are far inferior to the bonobo and gorilla exhibits at Stuttgart, and that the relative failings of the former and strengths of the latter are a major reason why Stuttgart deserves credit.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Thanks for these brief summaries of what Stuttgart has to offer - hopefully someone will provide more in-depth photographic evidence soon to demonstrate that (as I believe is the case) Stuttgart merits at least two points. I'd rather the task not fall to me, but if no one comes forward in the next day or so I shall see what I can do.

Firstly, no takers for this task?

Secondly, we will require @tigris115 to provide their insights in order for their vote to stand.

 

[tigris115]

Firstly, no takers for this task?

Secondly, we will require @tigris115 to provide their insights in order for their vote to stand.

I voted the way I did because, comparing the two, Beauval has both a far more comprehensive collection of African species as well as some quite stellar exhibits for said species

 

[amur leopard]

Ok, here's a very quick overview of Stuttgart - I've never been just to clarify, but:
(Photo creds: lintworm, German Zoo World, gulogulogulo, Philippine eagle, Cichlid
Barbary sheep, Rock hyrax and Gelada:

Bonobos:

Gorillas:

Okapi:

Giraffe and Scimitar horned oryx:

Serval:

Grevy's zebra and Dorcas gazelle:

Cheetah:

Eastern bongo and Kirk's dik dik:

Fanaloka:

Somali wild ass:

Fennec fox:

Meerkat exhibit:

Round-eared elephant shrew:

There are also some aviary exhibits but they didn't fit in this post - I wonder if anyone can give an overview or a quick paragraph summarising those.

In general, it seems to me as though Beauval's exhibits are fairly substantially superior for the vast majority of species housed (giraffes, okapi, wild asses, cheetahs (!), bongo and zebra) but that Stuttgart's bonobo exhibit is of a very high quality. This is one of the three things holding me back from a 4-1, with the others being the fanaloka (perhaps especially because I haven't seen one as of yet) and the bird collection, which, at least for smaller birds, appears to be better than Beauval's.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

I voted the way I did because, comparing the two, Beauval has both a far more comprehensive collection of African species as well as some quite stellar exhibits for said species

Which would be sufficient justification for a 4:1 vote, but not for a 5:0 vote - which implies the gap is so wide that Stuttgart has nothing to recommend it in this regard.

This is perhaps partially due to the fact that, although @amur leopard provided an excellent summary of what Beauval has to offer, very little has been said until now for Wilhelma. Although I don't have the time to provide anything as comprehensive or well-reasoned, and I see that @amur leopard has posted something as I work on this post, here are a few selected highlights:

Cheetah

Stuttgart contains two distinct exhibits for cheetah; a large exhibit for female and juvenile animals divided into several sections which is located in the "mountain species" portion of the zoo, having been converted very effectively from the old polar bear exhibit, and a smaller paddock exhibit for the male cheetah held at the collection.

Giraffe and Antelope

This currently holds Reticulated Giraffe and Scimitar-horned Oryx to my recollection, and covers approximately 2,750 m² - I haven't taken a Google Map screenshot as tree cover makes it hard to ascertain exact boundaries.

Grevy's Zebra and Dorcas Gazelle

This exhibit is slightly smaller than the giraffe exhibit, but not unduly so.

Bonobo

Both of the great ape species located within the (relatively-recently built) new ape house have *significantly* better exhibits than those held at Beauval, with the Bonobo exhibit complex a particular highlight comprising two outdoor enclosures and three indoor enclosures:

When compared to the "sparsely-vegetated island with a massive climbing frame in the centre" design of the chimpanzee exhibit at Beauval, the difference is striking!

Gorilla

The gorilla exhibit complex in the same house is similarly excellent in my opinion - although there are not many photographs in the gallery of the outdoor exhibit, which is somewhat larger than the bonobo exhibit in footplan but naturally contains less overall height given the differing needs of the inhabitants, there *is* a very good image showing a diagram of the house overall - the gorilla exhibits are above, the bonobos below:

The two indoor exhibits for the species are large, well-suited for the inhabitants, and provide a lot of informational signage:

Including all indoor and outdoor exhibits, the ape house covers around 6,600 m².

There are also some aviary exhibits but they didn't fit in this post - I wonder if anyone can give an overview or a quick paragraph summarising those.

and the bird collection, which, at least for smaller birds, appears to be better than Beauval's.

I'll try to throw something together after I finish work

 

[Paul.Haerle]

@TeaLovingDave, I hope it’s okay if I post the aviaries

Congo Peafowl aviary

by @Cichlid

African river aviary

by @lintworm

African Pygmy Falcon aviary

by @lintworm

Estrilid finch aviary

by @lintworm

Walkthrough aviary

by @German Zoo World

by @lintworm

Species list:

Vulturine Guineafowl (Acryllium vulturinum) (?),
Yellow-necked Spurfowl (Pternistis leucoscepus)
Madagascar Teal (Anas bernieri)
Blue-billed Teal (Spatula hottentota),
African Comb Duck (Sarkidiornis melanotos)
White-faced Whistling Duck (Dendrocygna viduata)
Laughing Dove (Spilopelia senegalensis),
Rameron Pigeon (Columba arquatrix),
Hartlaub's Turaco (Tauraco hartlaubi)
Blacksmith Lapwing (Vanellus armatus),
Lilac-breasted Roller (Coracias caudatus)
Blue-beilled Roller (Coracias cyanogaster),
Black-winged Lovebird (Agapornis taranta),
Magpie Shrike (Lanius melanoleucus),
Violet-backed Starling (Cinnyricinclus leucogaster),
Superb Starling (Lamprotornis superbus),
Wattled Starling (Creatophora cinerea),
Chestnut-and-black Weaver (Ploceus castaneofuscus)
Village Weaver (Ploceus cucullatus)

 

[tigris115]

Tbh, 3-2 in favor of Beauval would be a better call for my vote.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Tbh, 3-2 in favor of Beauval would be a better call for my vote.

There's nothing stopping you from changing it

 

[Kalaw]

For now, I will put the argument forward that IMO the Beauval chimpanzee and gorilla exhibits are far inferior to the bonobo and gorilla exhibits at Stuttgart, and that the relative failings of the former and strengths of the latter are a major reason why Stuttgart deserves credit.

Bonobo

Both of the great ape species located within the (relatively-recently built) new ape house have *significantly* better exhibits than those held at Beauval, with the Bonobo exhibit complex a particular highlight comprising two outdoor enclosures and three indoor enclosures:

(...)

When compared to the "sparsely-vegetated island with a massive climbing frame in the centre" design of the chimpanzee exhibit at Beauval, the difference is striking!

Gorilla

The gorilla exhibit complex in the same house is similarly excellent in my opinion - although there are not many photographs in the gallery of the outdoor exhibit, which is somewhat larger than the bonobo exhibit in footplan but naturally contains less overall height given the differing needs of the inhabitants, there *is* a very good image showing a diagram of the house overall - the gorilla exhibits are above, the bonobos below:

The two indoor exhibits for the species are large, well-suited for the inhabitants, and provide a lot of informational signage:

Including all indoor and outdoor exhibits, the ape house covers around 6,600 m².

I'll try to throw something together after I finish work

Whilst I fully agree that Stuttgart's bonobo enclosure is better than Beauval's chimpanzee enclosure by some margin (not that the latter is necessarily bad), I think you are being harsh on the gorilla enclosure to say that it is 'far inferior' to Stuttgart's 'significantly better' enclosure. Both provide good natural substrate and straw for foraging indoors, with Beauval's housing actually being much taller with a retreat beyond the raised portion at the back for privacy. As no photos of the indoor area have been provided yet, here is one below:

@Maguari

Outdoors, Stuttgart is definitely denser, with more shade and privacy, representing the rainforest habitat a lot better, but by no means is Beauval poor in this regard. There are bushes and trees with the undulating, hilly landscape furthering the privacy. In terms of climbing, Stuttgart is again superior if the gorillas can indeed climb all those trees, but again Beauval isn't too far behind with climbing apparatus which allows them to reach great heights and again access to trees (though do the gorillas actually use them at either collection?). In terms of area, no idea how big Stuttgart's is, but the family island at Beauval is 1,200 sqm and the bachelor group island is even bigger at 1,900 sqm, the latter being one of the largest gorilla enclosures I know of.

Again, not disputing that Stuttgart's gorilla enclosure is better (it looks excellent), but merely your suggestions that Beauval's isn't good.

Still happy with 4-1 Beauval awaiting further information about Stuttgart, as truthfully, nothing I have seen pictured has convinced me they are deserving of more than a point here. Barring apes, every species or enclosure type present at both zoos is done better in France, and they don't seem to have anything quite as spectacular as the Hippo Aviary or even the savannah.

 

[TeaLovingDave]

), I think you are being harsh on the gorilla enclosure to say that it is 'far inferior' to Stuttgart's 'significantly better' enclosure. Both provide good natural substrate and straw for foraging indoors, with Beauval's housing actually being much taller with a retreat beyond the raised portion at the back for privacy. As no photos of the indoor area have been provided yet, here is one below:

Agreed - that is a lot better than I recalled, to the point that I think I may have been thinking of a different exhibit and zoo

they don't seem to have anything quite as spectacular as the Hippo Aviary or even the savannah.

The summary of bird exhibits provided by @Paul.Haerle above (which I have now repaired and reinstated, as he had deleted it due to broken image links) provides a few images from the walkthrough wetland aviaries at Stuttgart - although I will try to post better images after I finish work - which I would suggest are excellent.

 

[Paul.Haerle]

(which I have now repaired and reinstated, as he had deleted it due to broken image links)

Thank you

 

[tigris115]

There's nothing stopping you from changing it

done

 

[TeaLovingDave]

Beauval - 60//90 points - 66.667%
Stuttgart - 30/90 points - 33.333%