European (Tea)Cup - PRESTIGE LEAGUE - Paris Zoo and Menagerie vs Leipzig

Paris vs Leipzig - MOUNTAINS AND POLES

  • Paris 5/0 Leipzig

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paris 4/1 Leipzig

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Leipzig 5/0 Paris

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

TeaLovingDave

Moderator
Staff member
15+ year member
A category which we just encountered over in the Finals - MOUNTAINS AND POLES - but, I suspect, a significantly less one-sided match than that one was, and therefore plenty of scope for discussion and debate!

You have three days to discuss, debate and decide on your vote.
 
Nobody willing to make a point?

Poles doesn't look good for boths

Does Leipzig offer anything more than the Himalayan area? The snow leopard exhibit is one of the best looking, but not too large and i'm not sure if it is really that good for the cats. And a Himalayan section without any Caprids isn't a real mountain exhibit to me ;)

On the other hand Paris (M) has a very nice collection of Caprids. I guess that at least some of the European animals at Paris (V) does count, so a small advantage for the French participants, although none of three collections does really shine within this category.
 
Nobody willing to make a point?
Well I have never visited any of the 3 collections. I know the Vincennes and Leipzig offerings in this category a little bit, but the menagerie is unknown to me.

Also I don't know about the big rock at Vincennes. There aren't any animals on there is think, but the rock itself surely belongs in this category, right? And even without animals it's a spectacular sight.
 
Do either the penguins or the sea lions count for either collection? Otherwise, there’s precious little, but the menagerie has a wealth of caprids etc., so I’m leaning in that direction currently, can’t think of anything particularly impressive in Leipzig to counter them. Would love to hear from @Haasje though!
 
I'd be interested to hear the opinions of @Haasje as the only 4:1 voter for Leipzig, and the opinions of @Dr. Loxodonta and @Jogy as the only 3:2 voters for Leipzig, in order that we can get an idea of what angle we are potentially overlooking which works in the favour of the German collection!
 
For me, this has mostly been a placeholder vote so far. I find this category "Mountain en Poles" a particularly difficult one to judge. Firstly, because it's not entirely clear what exactly qualifies. But more importantly, because it’s quite a specific feature that a zoo either does or doesn’t have. And even when they do, it’s often on a rather limited scale. It feels a bit like an on/off switch, which I find a bit unfortunate. It can lead to odd or even slightly unfair results between parks - as we saw with Burgers’ Zoo.

In contrast to other categories, this one seems to allow less variation or interpretation. Most zoos have some sort of tropic house, savanna, or aquarium, for example, even if they're not world-class. But a proper mountain zone? Besides a red panda and snowleopard, that’s rare. Still, it is a category, so we do need to assess it fairly.

Personally, I think Leipzig’s Himalayan section - for snow leopards, red pandas and tufted deer - is exceptionally well done. The landscaping, the rockwork, the sightlines, and use of natural elements are all excellent. It blends beautifully into the surrounding architectural and layout style. I’m not entirely sure whether the adjacent aviary with various birds counts towards the mountain area, but it serves as a very fitting and atmospheric end to the route.

I also find Leipzig’s Amur section quite strong. The enclosures there might be slightly on the smaller side by today’s standards, but thematically it’s spot on - just like in the Himalayan area. Since i think these super cold forest count towards Poles. But i could stand corrected.

As for Paris: as I mentioned, this category feels very binary - either a zoo has something relevant or it doesn’t. And for Vincennes, it’s a clear "doesn’t", at least as far as i know. The Menagerie does have snow leopards and red pandas, but both enclosures are quite minimal. The snow leopard enclosure in particular, while housed in a historically significant building, doesn’t feel suitable anymore. They’re doing their best within the constraints, but the Menagerie - much like other parts of the zoo - is in need of serious renovation.

I love historical architecture, but in the Menagerie it feels like the buildings and enclosures are decaying rather than charming. It reminds me a bit of Buenos Aires just before the zoo there closed - full of potential, like Antwerp, but currently too limited and outdated. A few nice ungulate species here and there can’t make up for what I find to be underwhelming and outdated enclosures.

So, for now, I’m voting for Leipzig. A well-argued case could still persuade me to make it a closer 3–2 vote, but I haven’t seen one yet.
 
I also find Leipzig’s Amur section quite strong. The enclosures there might be slightly on the smaller side by today’s standards, but thematically it’s spot on - just like in the Himalayan area. Since i think these super cold forest count towards Poles. But i could stand corrected.

For future reference, I already clarified this point in a prior match - boreal forest falls under the "Temperate Forest and Woodland" category.

So, for now, I’m voting for Leipzig. A well-argued case could still persuade me to make it a closer 3–2 vote, but I haven’t seen one yet.

It couldn't, as you didn't actually bother answering the queries of myself and @amur leopard until after the match ended :rolleyes::D
 
A bit closer than I expected, all things considered, but far better than the blowout we had with this category recently:

Paris - 41/75 points - 54.667%
Leipzig - 34/75 points - 45.333%
 
My apologies if my response time doesn't meet your expectations, but I find it quite a statement to question my 'attention' in this regard. I respond when I can, and I see plenty of instances where there's no response at all. Furthermore, such remarks certainly don't make it more enjoyable for me to participate in a Zoochat Cup that already seems to be losing traction with each round.
 
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