Europe's 50 must see zoos

I never really paid attention to this thread as it seemed to be "just another" personal top ranking. Personally I have visited 18 of the 50 institutions and admittedly would not consider many of them to be on my list of personal favourites. After reading the explanation intro I understood the different approach. Not having seen the majority of these zoological institutions I cannot really evaluate everything. Yet under the given criteria I am definitely missing Hannover Zoo here. I know it's a zoo that is hated by many traditional zoo fans, yet since this list is explicitly not about "better/worse" or personal liking but about zoo styles and setting standards you cannot go around Hannover. It's maybe THE style for 21st century zoos, copied already by Gelsenkirchen and Emmen - and in parts while not to the full text extent by several other zoos.
 
Pongo said:
yet since this list is explicitly not about "better/worse" or personal liking but about zoo styles and setting standards you cannot go around Hannover. It's maybe THE style for 21st century zoos, copied already by Gelsenkirchen and Emmen
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Well, as @lintworm does explain at one point in the thread, he selected Bioparc Valencia to cover that particular genre of collection style rather than Hannover, on the basis that it seems a purer example of the immersive theme than a collection such as Hannover or Gelsenkirchen - so the genre is not unrepresented!
 
Since I suppose Duisburg won't be on the list now, which zoo will be the best to replace it as the one here? Just a thought.
 
Pongo said:
I never really paid attention to this thread as it seemed to be "just another" personal top ranking. Personally I have visited 18 of the 50 institutions and admittedly would not consider many of them to be on my list of personal favourites. After reading the explanation intro I understood the different approach. Not having seen the majority of these zoological institutions I cannot really evaluate everything. Yet under the given criteria I am definitely missing Hannover Zoo here. I know it's a zoo that is hated by many traditional zoo fans, yet since this list is explicitly not about "better/worse" or personal liking but about zoo styles and setting standards you cannot go around Hannover. It's maybe THE style for 21st century zoos, copied already by Gelsenkirchen and Emmen - and in parts while not to the full text extent by several other zoos.
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With the inclusion of both Valencia and Pairi Daiza there are already 2 heavily themed zoos. The cultural theming of Hannover, would probably be more comparable with Pairi Daiza in hindsight, but I am stil happy with not including it. I would argue it is not THE style of 21st century zoos, though it is a strong niche, given the financial problems around these zoos, others will be loth to replicate it. I am not sure whether there is a 21st century style, but if I should name one it is the style of even larger enclosures.

aardvark250 said:
Since I suppose Duisburg won't be on the list now, which zoo will be the best to replace it as the one here? Just a thought.
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With the imminent closure of Bristol there are two free spots to be filled, for which there are plenty of candidates. Yorkshire Wildlife Park, Budapest, Basel, Zlin-Lesna or Villars-les-Dombes would be obvious replacements, but I would pick two other zoos. We seem to be quietly entering the age of French zoos, with lots of innovations and impressive developments from a country without the long history of zoos as other countries. There would be plenty to pick from with rising stars such as Parc Animalier de Auvergne, Parc de Branfere and Parc Animalier de Sainte-Croix, but I would opt for two different zoos:

Parc des Cleres and Reserve Africaine de Sigean. The former is a fantastic chateau with adjacent gardens, but the gardens are filled with free-ranging animals. This makes for a unique experience, especially with the high level of landscaping. Additionally there is a lovely set of aviaries near the chateau, housing an exquisite bird collection. Sigean would be the only safari park on the list and one that under new management has been making big steps forward. Aided by the Mediterranean climate, this is possibly the most African looking drive-through and with the addition of a 1 hectare aviary for African wetland birds (including breeding goliath herons (and alligators....)) there is quite some quality around.
 
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lintworm said:
With the inclusion of both Valencia and Pairi Daiza there are already 2 heavily themed zoos. The cultural theming of Hannover, would probably be more comparable with Pairi Daiza in hindsight, but I am stil happy with not including it. I would argue it is not THE style of 21st century zoos, though it is a strong niche, given the financial problems around these zoos, others will be loth to replicate it. I am not sure whether there is a 21st century style, but if I should name one it is the style of even larger enclosures.
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Who is this new guy? :rolleyes: Seems to really know his zoos, hope he becomes a regular poster :p
 
@TeaLovingDave and Lintworm:
I did not read all 19 pages, that's the downside of older threads in a forum. I'd still be on Hannover as it's the older zoo - when displaying certain genres I would opt on the original and not on younger versions. Valencia is monothematic African, so IMO not comparable, and Pairi Daiza (haven't been there) is often reported as the zoo to go to these days, so it might - possibly even be a lot - better, but I guess Hamburg also is in the list for historic reasons as inventor of the diorama and not because it is a top level zoo today. Yet of course it's Lintworm's list and Lintworm's fair choice.
 
Pongo said:
I know it's a zoo that is hated by many traditional zoo fans, (...) It's maybe THE style for 21st century zoos,
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Let's be honest: Hannover Zoo didn't invent the "Event zoo" theming. Rather, they were among the first to introduce a style that had been prevelent in other countries (e.g. Disney's Animal Kingdom) to Germany, in the course of the hyped Expo 2000 (probably due to some help by back-then Chancellor Schröder). Back then, Erlebniszoo Hannover was promoted as the best zoo in Germany and the zoo of the future. More than two decades later, little is left of that fame, and the current financial status of the zoo isn't all too appealing.
So while Hagenbeck can at least offer an interesting history, there is little (at least in my opinion) that would qualify Hannover Zoo in its current state for such a list.
 
I've lost when and where Duisburg suddenly becomes the bad boy in this list.

A mammal species list which is hard to beat for any European zoo outside the top 10.
Mostly very decent enclosures, nothing really bad and a few of very high quality (which I expect to encounter in another @lintworm topic).
 
Philipine eagle said:
I've lost when and where Duisburg suddenly becomes the bad boy in this list.

A mammal species list which is hard to beat for any European zoo outside the top 10.
Mostly very decent enclosures, nothing really bad and a few of very high quality (which I expect to encounter in another @lintworm topic).
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I think Duisburg will fall into those "good zoos but not stand out" category. It is a good zoo (as lintworm said) but there are zoos similar to Duisburg that doesnt make the list. It would not be a "must visit" in this thread's purpose.
 
aardvark250 said:
I think Duisburg will fall into those "good zoos but not stand out" category. It is a good zoo (as lintworm said) but there are zoos similar to Duisburg that doesnt make the list. It would not be a "must visit" in this thread's purpose.
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I certainly agree with that. In fact, imo Duisburg has never been a stand out zoo, with or without Baby

HOMIN96 said:
Baby ain't no more. Simple as that.
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I had already forgotten him :)

You're both right of course, Baby was a must see specimen. But based on its mammal collection Duisburg stays in my top 50.
 
Pongo said:
@TeaLovingDave and Lintworm:
I did not read all 19 pages, that's the downside of older threads in a forum. I'd still be on Hannover as it's the older zoo - when displaying certain genres I would opt on the original and not on younger versions. Valencia is monothematic African, so IMO not comparable, and Pairi Daiza (haven't been there) is often reported as the zoo to go to these days, so it might - possibly even be a lot - better, but I guess Hamburg also is in the list for historic reasons as inventor of the diorama and not because it is a top level zoo today. Yet of course it's Lintworm's list and Lintworm's fair choice.
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Hamburg is in the list for historical reasons, as without it not a single zoo would look like it does today and the revolutionary exhibit is still there, which qualifies imo. Hamburg is the exception in the thread, being the only "original" to have made it, even if more modern examples were available, but given their history that is correct. Hannover is like @Batto said not even the inventor of that kind of theming and though it has some good parts (Yukon Bay, some of Africa), overall it is not that great, I think. But you would be surprised at how many fans Hannover does have on this site.

Btw. I can only advise you to read the whole thread in your spare time, but who am I :p

Philipine eagle said:
I certainly agree with that. In fact, imo Duisburg has never been a stand out zoo, with or without Baby

I had already forgotten him :)

You're both right of course, Baby was a must see specimen. But based on its mammal collection Duisburg stays in my top 50.
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Without any superb standout enclosures and the mammal collection is good, but not top-10 in Europe, I don't see why it should be in. When I calculated statistics for mammal rarities (defined as species kept in 10 zoos or less), Duisburg came in 21st place Europe-wide and 7th in Germany: The most comprehensive European zoo collections. And that was before Happy past away... There was already debate over it's inclusion just because of 1 river dolphin, but without him, there isn't much debate imo whether it belongs in such a must-see list.


Whilst we are at it. In hindsight I would also remove Odense from the list and add Zlin-Lesna. I have been a bit harsh on Zlin in the past sometimes, but that is rather undeserved and with all the interesting positive developments (South-America, Karibuni), there is no reason why it should not be on here, whilst Odense's claim is certainly smaller...
 
lintworm said:
Hamburg is in the list for historical reasons, as without it not a single zoo would look like it does today and the revolutionary exhibit is still there, which qualifies imo. Hamburg is the exception in the thread, being the only "original" to have made it, even if more modern examples were available, but given their history that is correct.
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Indeed; for instance, Tierpark Hellabrunn was omitted from your original list despite it being the originator of the Geo-zoo concept used in a vast many collections now.... and I would argue that it would merit a place long before Hannover would!
 
When @lintworm began this thread in May 2018, he knew that many of his selections would be mildly controversial. He admittedly chose zoos that were "unique" and "do a very good job in highlighting a particular character". He said that he hoped to surprise people and was honest in stating that "some very fine zoos did not make the cut". All of that is laid out in the initial post almost 4 years ago. Not much has happened in the world since then, right? ;)

Looking at the 50 zoos, listed by @lintworm in chronological order by nation, I think that almost all zoo nerds would agree on the following choices:

Alpenzoo
Vienna
Antwerp
Pairi Daiza
Plzen
Prague
Doue
Paris (Jardin des Plantes)
Beauval
Berlin Tierpark
Berlin Zoo
Cologne
Frankfurt
Hagenbeck
Leipzig
Nuremberg
Stuttgart
Walsrode
Durrell
Amsterdam
Apenheul
Arnhem
Rotterdam
Wroclaw
Valenica
Valencia Aquarium
Zurich
Chester

That makes 28 zoological facilities that close to everyone would agree on, but then there are the remaining 22 slots that create great discussion!
 
@snowleopard: actually not, I would not include Nuremberg and Plzen. I actually read quite a bit of the thread in the meantime as @lintworm recommended ;) I have been to Plzen last summer and got so many recommendations for it that I was really disappointed afterwards. The reason was stated by lintworm: way too much quantity and in many cases not enough quality. Of course you can call it special due to the high number of species but a mere collection of species is not what I want to see from a zoo these days if the space for the animals is not enough - which unfortunately often is the case in Plzen. And Nuremberg is not a special zoo for me, it's just large.

What I find interesting in Lintworm's original list is Lusen ("Tierfreigelände Bayerischer Wald"). I have also been there for the first time in 2021 and considered it to be special. You partially walk a quarter hour from enclosure to enclosure, uphill and downhill in the Bavarian forest - I have never seen this concept before, it is really unique. They are member of the German zoo association but I am not quite sure if I consider this to be a real zoo though. It's more of a showcase for the forest visitors to let them know what they could theoretically find in the forest, either now or long time ago. If such specialty institutions are included in the list you might also consider Bärenwald Müritz - monothematic but a unique quality institution.
 
snowleopard said:
When @lintworm began this thread in May 2018, he knew that many of his selections would be mildly controversial. He admittedly chose zoos that were "unique" and "do a very good job in highlighting a particular character". He said that he hoped to surprise people and was honest in stating that "some very fine zoos did not make the cut". All of that is laid out in the initial post almost 4 years ago. Not much has happened in the world since then, right? ;)

Looking at the 50 zoos, listed by @lintworm in chronological order by nation, I think that almost all zoo nerds would agree on the following choices:

Alpenzoo
Vienna
Antwerp
Pairi Daiza
Plzen
Prague
Doue
Paris (Jardin des Plantes)
Beauval
Berlin Tierpark
Berlin Zoo
Cologne
Frankfurt
Hagenbeck
Leipzig
Nuremberg
Stuttgart
Walsrode
Durrell
Amsterdam
Apenheul
Arnhem
Rotterdam
Wroclaw
Valenica
Valencia Aquarium
Zurich
Chester

That makes 28 zoological facilities that close to everyone would agree on, but then there are the remaining 22 slots that create great discussion!
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Surely Burgers' also belongs on that list?
 
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