Reid Park Zoo Expedition Tanzania

Updates November 8, 2011.
Construction is right on schedule to be completed at the end of the year. (Official deadline for the construction company is January 1st, 2012, but I doubt they will be working on a Sunday that is also New Year's Day, so it is safe to say end of this year). Month of January will be inspections and any necessary adjustments as well as the installation of educational components. If all goes as planned (that is a big if), elephants could be shipped over from San Diego Safari Park in February. Zoo is hoping for a grand opening in March. Of course it could be delayed due to unforseen circumstances, but March is our hope. That is because in the desert that is our busy season and summer is our slow season. (Unlike zoos in other parts of the country where they do big openings for their busy summer season).
 
November 30, 2011. Docents are being given tours of the exhibit this week. I went this morning and have posted several photos in the Reid Park Zoo gallery.
 
OH MY. AD- now I understand why you told me to keep Connie's separation hush hush.
The public is so ridiculous at times....The public should learn that the zoo staff, are indeed the experts... The exhibit looks spectacular:)!
 
re: Connie (asian) being sent off. IDA made one final attempt to stifle us last week by claiming the two elephants should not be separated, but should be kept together in Tucson (and no new elephants sent here). Of course their motive was to prevent the establishment of another breeding herd of african elephants. Fortunately, their campaign went nowhere and the city council study session (which I was at) did not even ask them to testify (which they were hoping to do).
 
December 13, 2011.

Elephant crate that our asian will be transported in arrived today. It was placed in the end of the current elephant yard so they can start getting used to it. Although the zoo was open, no one from the public was there to see it. That is because it is unusually cold and rainy today, so there were literally zero visitors in the zoo (at least this morning). I will be the first to admit it - we Tucsonans are spoiled with good weather and become complete wimps if the weather goes south even a little!
 
Don't know why Connie couldn't stay with Shaba. When Elephant Odessey opened at the SD Zoo, they decided to leave the lone African with the 2 Asians she'd spent many years with, just like Connie and Shaba.

I'm excited to see the new Expedition Tanzania when it opens, but it'll be bittersweet since Connie was/will be moved.
 
Just when I thought everything was final, the saga continues. The zoo issued a press release late yesterday (January 17), stating that now both of our elephants (asian Connie and african Shaba) will go together to the San Diego Zoo.

If you are wondering who the people in the photo are, the man facing the camera is the newly elected mayor of Tucson, the woman on the left with her back to the camera is the zoo director and the man on the right with his back to the camera is the parks and recreation director.

CONNIE AND SHABA TO BE MOVED | tucsonaz.gov
 
Arizona Public Media | Science + Nature | New Home for Elephants Coming in March

This article specifically states the demographic makeup of Tucson's new elephant herd.

1.0 adult (Msholo or Mahabulane)
0.1 adult (Lungile)
0.1.2 adult with calves (Ndula and 2.0 or Litsemba and 2.0)

Also the movement of Shaba with Connie will reduce chances of EEHV transfer to the new San Diego elephants. However this move goes against the original reason for building a new elephant exhibit at the zoo.
 
San Diego Zoo already has an African elephant in Elephant Odysee together with their Asians. The females are all way too old to breed so it doesn`t matter (although I never understood why they didn`t move Ranchipur to another zoo with younger females - males usually can still sire calves in their 50ths). By the way, the theory that Asian elephants get EEVH from Africans is not proven and rather unlikely according to newer research.

Wasn`t it against the original reason for building a new elephant enclosure to seperate Shaba and Connie, too? I`d say it`s better this way; it`s very uncertain if she could have been integrated with the family group coming from San Diego WAP. In the San Diego Zoo, they have enough paddocks to keep her and Connie seperately from the others if introductions fail.
 
Yassa said:
San Diego Zoo already has an African elephant in Elephant Odysee together with their Asians. The females are all way too old to breed so it doesn`t matter (although I never understood why they didn`t move Ranchipur to another zoo with younger females - males usually can still sire calves in their 50ths). By the way, the theory that Asian elephants get EEVH from Africans is not proven and rather unlikely according to newer research.

Wasn`t it against the original reason for building a new elephant enclosure to seperate Shaba and Connie, too? I`d say it`s better this way; it`s very uncertain if she could have been integrated with the family group coming from San Diego WAP. In the San Diego Zoo, they have enough paddocks to keep her and Connie seperately from the others if introductions fail.
Click to expand...

Not the transfer of EEHV to the elephants in San Diego, but the San Diego elephants coming to Tucson.

Funding and approval for Tucson's new elephant exhibit was possible by the voters and taxpayers of Tucson. Would you vote for something, and find out that years down the road the money would not be spent on what you were told it was for? I hope for the zoo's sake that the Tucson taxpayers are not attached towards Connie and Shaba, and are welcome to having any elephant in the city's zoo.
 
It is a bit of a shock that the decision makers at Reid Park Zoo, literally weeks away from the opening of the zoo's largest construction project in history, have abruptly changed their plans. There have been many negative articles on Google in reference to the IDA "Worst Elephant" list, so is it a coincidence that the zoo has now decided to keep its two elephants together? San Diego Zoo just recently experienced two elephant deaths, which was another factor amongst the many related to the final decision.
 
With the mayor of Tucson involved it seems to be less of a zoo decision and more of a city PR decision. The city of Tucson has had a history of zoo elephant related politics.
 
I've been thinking about which elephants would be going, based on the demographic released in a recent article.

one bull
Mabhulane's reason for being transferred would be because he hasn't sired any calves with Lungile, and already has three with Umngani, one with Ndula, two with Listemba, two with Umoya, and one with Swazi.

Unless, they want Mabhulane to sire more calves with Ndula, and Swazi, so they keep him at the park, while sending Msholo to breed with Lungile, and Listemba...

one cow with no calves

Lungile is the only cow at the park with out calves.

one cow with her two calves

the only cows at the park with two calves each or Ndula, and Listemba.
Ndula gave birth in 2003, to a male calf with a wild sire. Making him extremely valuable (genetically). I don't think the SDSP would transfer an animal that is rapidly maturing and could breed with any females born at the park. So I envision Vus' Musi, Lustandvor, and Ndula remaining.

Listemba is the most logical choice, because she has already had two male calves with Mabhulane, Impunga and Tsandzikle.


I predict the animals going to expedition Tanzania will be:
  • Mabhulane
  • Lungile
  • Listemba
  • Impunga
  • Tsandzikle
 
gerenuk said:
Arizona Public Media | Science + Nature | New Home for Elephants Coming in March

This article specifically states the demographic makeup of Tucson's new elephant herd.

1.0 adult (Msholo or Mahabulane)
0.1 adult (Lungile)
0.1.2 adult with calves (Ndula and 2.0 or Litsemba and 2.0)

Also the movement of Shaba with Connie will reduce chances of EEHV transfer to the new San Diego elephants. However this move goes against the original reason for building a new elephant exhibit at the zoo.
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if the WAP sent Mabu to Tucson unless it's to diversify the bloodlines at the park. He's the father of the calves that were born at WAP (I think one female was already pregnant when that herd arrived).

Lungile, I think, is the only adult female without a calf. She'd had one in 2007, but it died. I had a hard time finding who Ndula was, then saw the nickname within the name of Ndlulamitsi.

I'm glad, though, they decided to keep Connie and Shaba together. They've been together for a super long time and there was no reason to separate them, especially since SDZ already has an African female in their OA herd. I do, however, wonder why they waited until the last minute to make that decision. If RPZ is hoping to open the new exhibit by March, they need to get the elephants moved in and in quarrantine very soon.
 
Last edited:
gorgeousingray said:
I've been thinking about which elephants would be going, based on the demographic released in a recent article.

one bull
Mabhulane's reason for being transferred would be because he hasn't sired any calves with Lungile, and already has three with Umngani, one with Ndula, two with Listemba, two with Umoya, and one with Swazi.

Unless, they want Mabhulane to sire more calves with Ndula, and Swazi, so they keep him at the park, while sending Msholo to breed with Lungile, and Listemba...

one cow with no calves

Lungile is the only cow at the park with out calves.

one cow with her two calves

the only cows at the park with two calves each or Ndula, and Listemba.
Ndula gave birth in 2003, to a male calf with a wild sire. Making him extremely valuable (genetically). I don't think the SDSP would transfer an animal that is rapidly maturing and could breed with any females born at the park. So I envision Vus' Musi, Lustandvor, and Ndula remaining.

Listemba is the most logical choice, because she has already had two male calves with Mabhulane, Impunga and Tsandzikle.


I predict the animals going to expedition Tanzania will be:
  • Mabhulane
  • Lungile
  • Listemba
  • Impunga
  • Tsandzikle
Click to expand...
That's quite a detailed list there and it's interesting to see what your opinion is. I'm more of a cat person so I don't know elephant behaviors, but do bulls have territory issues, especially where it pertains to the cows? Could that be a reason for moving either Mabu or Msholo? Since Moose is from a wild bull, you're right about him being genetically valuable since it means he's not related to the females.

As the male calves get older, WAP is going to have a space problem. Other zoos interested in breeding Africans will be climbing over each other to get Moose (Vus'Musi), I'm sure.
 
azcheetah2 said:
I'd be surprised if the WAP sent Mabu to Tucson unless it's to diversify the bloodlines at the park.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the reason they brought in Msholo from Lowry Park in 2009!

You are correct, the calf that was conceived in the wild is Vus' Musi, he was born to Ndulamitsi. With Vus' Musi not being related to any of the female calves at the park, it would make sense if his family unit stayed, so he could breed with Khosi and Phakamille once all three reach sexual maturity!

I'm pretty certain the SDSP is looking out for their program before Reid Park's. I think they'll be keeping Vus Musi to themselves.
 
azcheetah2 said:
If RPZ is hoping to open the new exhibit by March, they need to get the elephants moved in and in quarrantine very soon.
Click to expand...

A couple staff I have spoken with think March is extremely unlikely and April is more realistic. The exhibit construction is nearing completion (this is now mid January), but it was supposed to be done January 1st. The construction company is working frantically, because they get a financial penalty for every day they run over past January 1st.
 
gorgeousingray said:
That's exactly the reason they brought in Msholo from Lowry Park in 2009!

You are correct, the calf that was conceived in the wild is Vus' Musi, he was born to Ndulamitsi. With Vus' Musi not being related to any of the female calves at the park, it would make sense if his family unit stayed, so he could breed with Khosi and Phakamille once all three reach sexual maturity!

I'm pretty certain the SDSP is looking out for their program before Reid Park's. I think they'll be keeping Vus Musi to themselves.
Click to expand...
I was wondering why they decided to bring him over. That makes sense. And I wouldn't doubt them keeping Moose. It's what makes most sense to them.
 
Arizona Docent said:
A couple staff I have spoken with think March is extremely unlikely and April is more realistic. The exhibit construction is nearing completion (this is now mid January), but it was supposed to be done January 1st. The construction company is working frantically, because they get a financial penalty for every day they run over past January 1st.
Click to expand...
That's too bad about the delay, but it has to be finished. That worries me that the construction company is working frantically to avoid as much penalty as possible because that often means stuff will get overlooked or done with substandard materials. Where I work, we were being moved to a new building. The building was supposed to be ready in late March, but then we got notification that it was ready and we moved in early February (this was a couple of years ago). Because the construction company had worked to get the building ready early, we ended up with a leaking roof and the bathroom fixtures are starting to pull away from the wall. Plumbing is bad, too. With humans it's an inconvenience. When dealing with adult elephants, a substandard exhibit could be dangerous.
 
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