Felids in Australasian Zoos – News, History and Discussion

[Zoofan15]

Taronga Zoo - Sumatran Tiger Update:

The three cubs born in 2019 are growing up fast and now weigh around 70-80 kilograms. The keeper said around 2:20 that the cubs - especially the two females - will most likely enter into breeding situations in Australia or even New Zealand.

Source: Taronga Zoo's Facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=719803185501431

Taronga Zoo Sydney

That’s interesting, especially the comment that New Zealand was a possibility for the tigers. Presumably this referred to Auckland Zoo and Orana Wildlife Park, who are currently both without tigers.

There’s several tigers in the region that are more valuable than these cubs however as both their parents (Clarence and Kartika) descend directly from the Nico-Meta line (a great grandson and great great granddaughter respectively). This surely overrules the value of their genes from their paternal grandmother (Kaitlyn from Indonesia).

I believe the most valuable breeding pair in the region would be Satu (2005) and Maneki (2007) at Ballarat - who are hopefully being given priority to breed; with unpaired valuable tigers like their only offspring - Reggie (2016) being considered as one half of a new breeding pair with a new import.

It’s surprising that better use was never made of the Indonesian imports e.g. pairing one of the females with Oz (2004) at Hamilton. They’re now aged 12 years old, so time is fast running out.

 

[toothlessjaws]

That’s interesting, especially the comment that New Zealand was a possibility for the tigers. Presumably this referred to Auckland Zoo and Orana Wildlife Park, who are currently both without tigers.

There’s several tigers in the region that are more valuable than these cubs however as both their parents (Clarence and Kartika) descend directly from the Nico-Meta line (a great grandson and great great granddaughter respectively). This surely overrules the value of their genes from their paternal grandmother (Kaitlyn from Indonesia).

I believe the most valuable breeding pair in the region would be Satu (2005) and Maneki (2007) at Ballarat - who are hopefully being given priority to breed; with unpaired valuable tigers like their only offspring - Reggie (2016) being considered as one half of a new breeding pair with a new import.

It’s surprising that better use was never made of the Indonesian imports e.g. pairing one of the females with Oz (2004) at Hamilton. They’re now aged 12 years old, so time is fast running out.

I feel like we've had this argument before. It's 100% deliberate that the most valuable animals are bred to the most overrepresented.

Think about it.

 

[Zoofan15]

I feel like we've had this argument before. It's 100% deliberate that the most valuable animals are bred to the most overrepresented.

Think about it.

Well you do tend to have a lot of arguments with people on here...

Breeding the most valuable animals with the most overrepresented means the resulting offspring are of little more value than the overrepresented animals that produced them.

Breed a valuable animal with an unrelated valuable animal and the offspring are also valuable (i.e. you have more of them). From here you have two options:

A) Breed them with the overrepresented like you want to do

B) Breed them with new unrelated valuable animals as they become available to create even more valuable animals

Breeding with valuable and valuable gives you two options; breeding valuable with overrepresented takes away the second.

 

[toothlessjaws]

Breeding the most valuable animals with the most overrepresented means the resulting offspring are of little more value than the overrepresented animals that produced them.

No, it means entirely the opposite.

Breed a valuable animal with an unrelated valuable animal and the offspring are also valuable (i.e. you have more of them).

No again. You just turned two valuable bloodlines into one.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I'm just using the same flawed logic as literally every single studbook co-ordinator in the world.

 

[Zoofan15]

No again. You just turned two valuable bloodlines into one.

First of all, unless we’re talking of a monogamous species (we’re not), the bloodlines do not permanently become one unless the entire regional population derives from them e.g. Nico and Meta.

A can breed with B to produce AB; and then A can breed with C to produce AC. All of which are unrelated to D, E and F.

AB may be the combination of two bloodlines, but those two bloodlines can still exist as seperate bloodlines capable of breeding with others. Especially if AB dies or isn’t bred from.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I'm just using the same flawed logic as literally every single studbook co-ordinator in the world.

Secondly, people would be more willing to take your point of view on board without your childish sarcasm.

You’re also incorrect, as the Southern white rhinoceros studbook states that all available founder bulls should be exhausted as options before breeding from first and second generation bulls. It’s common sense logic.

 

[MRJ]

No, it means entirely the opposite.
No again. You just turned two valuable bloodlines into one.
But hey, maybe I'm wrong? Maybe I'm just using the same flawed logic as literally every single studbook co-ordinator in the world.

First of all, unless we’re talking of a monogamous species (we’re not), the bloodlines do not permanently become one unless the entire regional population derives from them e.g. Nico and Meta.

A can breed with B to produce AB; and then A can breed with C to produce AC. All of which are unrelated to D, E and F.

AB may be the combination of two bloodlines, but those two bloodlines can still exist as seperate bloodlines capable of breeding with others. Especially if AB dies or isn’t bred from.

Secondly, people would be more willing to take your point of view on board without your childish sarcasm.

You’re also incorrect, as the Southern white rhinoceros studbook states that all available founder bulls should be exhausted as options before breeding from first and second generation bulls. It’s common sense logic.

An objective of any breeding program should be to maximise the genetic diversity of the population. This is done by equalising the influence of each founder in the population, ie they all have the same number of descendants of breeding age at any one time. A founder or a descendant of a founder is considered "valuable" if that founder is not well represented, especially if otherwise the population is inbred.

 

[toothlessjaws]

@MRJ Correct. Or more to the point, slow the loss of genetic diversity from a population formed by a limited number founders (as is the case with Sumatran tigers).

 

[WhistlingKite24]

Dumai, one of Perth Zoo’s Sumatran Tigers has been put to sleep today at the age of 17. According to the zoo’s email newsletter he was the oldest male Sumatran Tiger in the region.

Full tribute: Goodbye Sumatran Tiger Dumai

Today was a tough day for the Zoo family, as we tearfully said ‘goodbye’ to elderly Sumatran Tiger, Dumai.

Some of you may have noticed that his exhibit has been closed over the past week. Dumai had been unwell for a while with chronic kidney issues and our team have been caring for him round the clock – almost the equivalent of tiger palliative care – but we owed him a dignified end to his life. Always a hard decision, but the correct one.

At 17 years old, he was the oldest male Sumatran Tiger cared for by an Australian zoo, and in fact global zoo records show just three other male tigers currently of his ilk.

He was a very special tiger who, due to having been hand reared in Germany before arriving at Perth Zoo, was not your ‘typical’ tiger.

His long-time Zoo keeper, Karen has penned a tribute to the remarkable and very special big cat, who will forever remain in our hearts.

Goodbye Dumai.

 

[Zoofan15]

Dumai, one of Perth Zoo’s Sumatran Tigers has been put to sleep today at the age of 17. According to the zoo’s email newsletter he was the oldest male Sumatran Tiger in the region.

Full tribute: Goodbye Sumatran Tiger Dumai

I saw this guy when I visited Perth Zoo in 2016 and he was an impressive cat. It's a shame that due to being handraised/humanised, he never bred with Setia as was intended.

Yes, Dumai was the oldest male Sumatran tiger in the region; with the oldest being the tigress Mencari at Hamilton Zoo. She was born 10/01/2000 and was still looking very spritely when I saw her this month.

Perth Zoo now have just one tiger: Jaya - born 20/08/2008 to Hari and Setia. It'll be interesting to see if a mate is found for him in the near future.

 

[Tafin]

I saw this guy when I visited Perth Zoo in 2016 and he was an impressive cat. It's a shame that due to being handraised/humanised, he never bred with Setia as was intended.

Yes, Dumai was the oldest male Sumatran tiger in the region; with the oldest being the tigress Mencari at Hamilton Zoo. She was born 10/01/2000 and was still looking very spritely when I saw her this month.

Perth Zoo now have just one tiger: Jaya - born 20/08/2008 to Hari and Setia. It'll be interesting to see if a mate is found for him in the near future.

There's very few unrelated mates for Jaya in the region so maybe they will import from overseas. Or just leave him unpaired.

 

[Zorro]

There's very few unrelated mates for Jaya in the region so maybe they will import from overseas. Or just leave him unpaired.

I thought they had done some AI in Tigers overseas?

 

[Zoofan15]

I thought they had done some AI in Tigers overseas?

It was carried out at Point Defiance Zoo on two female Sumatran tigers in 2019 - neither procedure was successful. They noted that AI had been carried out on tigers many times before, but had only been successful four times. Using fresh semen (as opposed to frozen) would also be advantageous, so using a tiger at the same zoo as the tigress (or at least within a negligible transit time) would be essential for this.

Jaya descends from well represented European lines on both sides, so it's unlikely he's required for breeding in the region. It'd be nice to see Perth Zoo have tiger cubs again after 12 years - but otherwise he'll probably remain unpaired like so many of the tigers born around that time period (2006-2011). There's not a lot of space at Perth Zoo and on hindsight, it's surprising they held three adults for so many years.

In the meantime, I'm watching with interest to see what imports Auckland Zoo and Orana Wildlife Park make.

 

[tetrapod]

There's not a lot of space at Perth Zoo and on hindsight, it's surprising they held three adults for so many years.

Not alot of space? The tigers take up the entire big cat complex that housed separate enclosures for male and female tigers, leopards and lions. I appreciate that enclosures have since been joined up, but unless entire sections of fencing was removed, then there are still four enclosures available plus two dens and offdisplay runs for each.Definitely enough room for two tigers, let alone more.

 

[Zoofan15]

Not alot of space? The tigers take up the entire big cat complex that housed separate enclosures for male and female tigers, leopards and lions. I appreciate that enclosures have since been joined up, but unless entire sections of fencing was removed, then there are still four enclosures available plus two dens and offdisplay runs for each.Definitely enough room for two tigers, let alone more.

The four seperate exhibits that once housed Chester the white tiger, Calang the Sumatran tiger, leopards and lions would be considered cramped and inadequate by today’s standards; joined together - only adequate.

I was quite underwhelmed when I saw the tiger exhibits for the first time. I enjoyed visiting Perth Zoo, but there’s no getting away from the fact it’s a city zoo; and there’s only a handful of exhibits that could be called spacious. They would greatly benefit from having a link to an open range zoo.

To be fair though, my expectations of a Sumatran tiger exhibit are always going to fall short when I’m comparing to Tiger Territory at ZSL London Zoo and Hamilton Zoo.

This is a decent Sumatran tiger exhibit (Hamilton Zoo):

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020
• 2

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020
• 1

 

[tetrapod]

The four seperate exhibits that once housed Chester the white tiger, Calang the Sumatran tiger, leopards and lions would be considered cramped and inadequate by today’s standards; joined together - only adequate.

I was quite underwhelmed when I saw the tiger exhibits for the first time. I enjoyed visiting Perth Zoo, but there’s no getting away from the fact it’s a city zoo; and there’s only a handful of exhibits that could be called spacious. They would greatly benefit from having a link to an open range zoo.

To be fair though, my expectations of a Sumatran tiger exhibit are always going to fall short when I’m comparing to Tiger Territory at ZSL London Zoo and Hamilton Zoo.

This is a decent Sumatran tiger exhibit (Hamilton Zoo):

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020
• 2

Sumatran Tiger Exhibit (Main Exhibit)

• Zoofan15
• 7 Jan 2020
• 1

Yep that's a decent sized enclosure. However cats being cats, how much do they actually use of it? Seems like a massive pond. Not denying PZ's cat enclosures are small compared to Hamilton's, just that they aren't terrible. Deceptive in size too. Could do with more height.
Strangely enough you mentioned ZSL - the PZ big cat enclosures were apparently built off the same design as London's previous cat complex, complete with overhead mesh wide enough to let the snow through! They did look pretty similar.
And yes PZ needs a sister open-range facility badly. Adelaide, Melbourne and Taronga have far more flexibility with their collection planning.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yep that's a decent sized enclosure. However cats being cats, how much do they actually use of it? Seems like a massive pond.

Sali (2008), who grew up from Dreamworld loves the pool. I've often seen her use it on a hot day; as well as her cubs when they were growing up. My theory is, she grew up with the pools at Dreamworld and realises their benefit.

Oz (2004), who grew up in a comparatively barren cage at the Ramat Gan Zoo is reluctant to use it; as does Mencari (2000) from Wellington Zoo, who I've never seen use it.

All the cats explore the wider exhibit and have their favourite spots.

 

[Nisha]

Just to add - Ramat Gan's exhibit has been completely replaced since Oz and his sister left. The new exhibit is much bigger, far more naturalistic and has a pool among other features.

 

[Zoofan15]

Just to add - Ramat Gan's exhibit has been completely replaced since Oz and his sister left. The new exhibit is much bigger, far more naturalistic and has a pool among other features.

That’s good to know. Wellington Zoo’s exhibits have changed little since Mencari was born there 20 years ago. They have an adequate sized main tiger exhibit; as well as a smaller side exhibit. The smaller exhibit was typically used to house Cantic; with Jambi and Rokan rotating use of the main exhibit. On my last few visits, Senja has been in this smaller exhibit; and Bashi in the main exhibit, though they do rotate.

Since the tiger area was revamped in 2012, the smaller exhibit no longer has a public viewing window. It is essentially obscured from view, barely visible from the viewing platform for the main tiger exhibit. It’s disappointing for me as a visitor, but no doubt the cats appreciate the privacy. It’ll be ideal for Senja if/when they finally succeed in breeding her and Bashi. Still no news on this front…

 

[Tafin]

Just to add - Ramat Gan's exhibit has been completely replaced since Oz and his sister left. The new exhibit is much bigger, far more naturalistic and has a pool among other features.

Out of interest do you know what happened to Oz's sister? Like if she bred etc?

 

[Nisha]

Out of interest do you know what happened to Oz's sister? Like if she bred etc?

Chana (she goes by several names but we'll call her Chana for the purposes of this) moved to Jerusalem Biblical Zoo and was paired up with a male (Avigdor) from Wuppertal. They had 4 litters in total but she was not a good mother and all her cubs subsequently died. The only surviving cub (a male called Sylvester) was removed for handrearing when he was born in 2008.

Chana's last litter was born in November 2014. This time she initially reared the cubs (2 of them) and they were doing well. Unfortunately after a few weeks she killed and ate them for unknown reasons. Her original mate (Avigdor) has since passed away and she now lives with a similar age male in a none breeding situation.

Tragedy at Jerusalem's Bibilical Zoo: Tigress eats her cubs