Franklin Zoo (Closed) Franklin Zoo lions

Jarkari said:
??????
What a crock of ****! That statement is very broad and you make some interesting (and ridiculous) comments.

"I KNOW that circus lions DO get there (their) teeth and claws ripped out"

Really?

I am aware of some circuses that do declaw their lions but this is something that is easily hidden to the general public. Having their teeth ripped out is something I am unaware of especially in Australis and New Zealand (not saying it hasn't happened) but i find it hard to believe. There's not much impressive about a narling lion with no teeth.

Peopl are too quick to knock circuses. Do you have any idea which circus the lions came from or how they were treated. Do a little research before making accusations.
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I stand by these comments. There is nothing wrong with them and I have said nothing derogatory about circuses. This statment defends circuses. I apologise for not being country specific but as I was replying to the previous post (I don't know how to quote two posts). I have made no accusations and my quoting the USDA was simply to support my point that it does happen in some instances. I am not arguing wether the actions of the USDA are right or wrong.

I did not name specific circuses in my post and my comments were made fully in support of circuses in Australia and New Zealand.

I was simply acknowldging that it does occur (not here but it does) denying it makes us look just as loopy as the AR loons.

When going into a discussion I like to be preapred and acknowledgin that the practice does exist is a part of that. If you now it, they can't surprise you and throw it back at you.

If you honestly 100% believe that there are no declawed lions in circus then great. I will accept that, as you do know the industry better then myself.
 
Jarkari said:
I stand by these comments. There is nothing wrong with them and I have said nothing derogatory about circuses. This statment defends circuses. I apologise for not being country specific but as I was replying to the previous post (I don't know how to quote two posts). I have made no accusations and my quoting the USDA was simply to support my point that it does happen in some instances. I am not arguing wether the actions of the USDA are right or wrong.

I did not name specific circuses in my post and my comments were made fully in support of circuses in Australia and New Zealand.

I was simply acknowldging that it does occur (not here but it does) denying it makes us look just as loopy as the AR loons.

When going into a discussion I like to be preapred and acknowledgin that the practice does exist is a part of that. If you now it, they can't surprise you and throw it back at you.

If you honestly 100% believe that there are no declawed lions in circus then great. I will accept that, as you do know the industry better then myself.
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You must be a closet Kiwi!
 
ZYBen said:
Care to share these "Facts"?
As a 'New' (:rolleyes:) member you really need to prove that the info you are sharing as fact is correct. It takes alot to gain the trust of a global forum like this.
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I no what circus they came from as I had seen them in the circus (the name escapes me but it was the one that Jumbo the elephant was owned by at one stage) and the health problems that the lions had were on the franklin zoo website such as kindeys failing, feline aids and blindness. The male lion was also declawed during his time at the circus so that it was safer for the handler to work with him this I was told by a member of staff at the circus.
 
Kurger said:
I no what circus they came from as I had seen them in the circus (the name escapes me but it was the one that Jumbo the elephant was owned by at one stage) and the health problems that the lions had were on the franklin zoo website such as kindeys failing, feline aids and blindness. The male lion was also declawed during his time at the circus so that it was safer for the handler to work with him this I was told by a member of staff at the circus.
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The health problems that the lions had at the Franklin Zoo [according to their website] are exactly the same health problems that many old, large carnivores suffer from. Nothing to do with them coming from a circus - zoo and even wild lions suffer from the same problems.

I am endeavouring to get hold of the former circus owner to put you straight on the "declawing" claim but it is difficult locate him at the moment. I do know that he will be impressed [not!] to know that one of his staff members, who may have only worked for him for the proverbial five minutes, was telling people that he needed to declaw his cats to make them "...safer ...to work with..."

By the way, did you mean to spell your name ... Kruger... as in the National Park?
 
Those health issues mentioned by Kurger are things I'd expect to see in all cats of, wether they be domestic or big cats, circus or zoo.

And as Steve said, even wild lions have the same health issues, and usaully at a much younger age.
 
I'm quite certain that one of the keepers that I was talking to last time I went to Franklin Zoo said that they might be getting some cubs from Auckland Zoo when the cubs grow to a reasonable size.
 
Steve Robinson said:
That's the whole problem - you and others like you do NOT know "for sure".

Please take your internet only gained knowledge with several grains of salt. I have been in the business for over 40 years and I would be the first to dob in exhibitors who stoop to the levels that the looney libbers claim that we do.

Don't confuse Zion with circus. He declaws because he doesn't have a clue. How do I know? Because I had him here for 24 hours
which was long enough to establish the fact that the man is a dud.
Get it right or shut it.
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Hey Steve,
Just for your info about the lions at Franklyn, three of them,Queenie, Gypsy and their brother Eddie were all ex circus lions, and were retired to the zoo when the circus stopped their lion act.
Im not sure about the lionesses, but the male lion definiltey had been declawed as a cub, he had quite bad feet and foreleg problems because of it.

Zion has 25 declawed lions and tigers at present, all of which were declwed during Craig's tenure. several others also declwed have since died.
Some of the lions declawed were the white cubs sourced direct from South Africa.
The declawing was done by a govt approved vet, but there has been plent of controversy over what he did since.

No other zoo in NZ has declawed big cats, although the Zoo in New Plymouth has some tigers on loan from Zion.

Because of the method of declawing some of the cats do have mocement difficulties, on lioness in particular is quite notcibly crippled with one pay that flops as she walks. Most of them also put their feet down differently to clawed cats, quite noticeble when they are in a pen with one of the few clawed cats.
You also see them trying to claw logs and posts with no effect, and they end up scrabbling at the wood.

The present management at Zion isnt running things much better despite some of the best advice wolrdwide.
 
Declawing, as a normal practice, is a barbaric and unnecessary procedure if a trainer/handler is competent. Dreamworld, for example, where cats and handlers interact daily, does not find it necessary to declaw their cats.

Sometimes it is necessary to declaw a cat for any one of a number of medical reasons. I once worked a lion for many years that had had ONE claw surgically removed. He didn't need all his claws removed, just the one.

I wonder whether the male lion that you refer to was declawed of necessity? It would seem strange that only he had been declawed and not the lionesses.

Despite popular opinion, declawing doesn't make an animal totally "safe" for humans. It really is a useless procedure which can have negative effects for the animal.
 
Steve Robinson;398673 I wonder whether the male lion that you refer to was declawed of necessity? It would seem strange that only he had been declawed and not the lionesses. Despite popular opinion said:
I presume he was declawed because that wasn't uncommon with circus lions when he was born.

The lionesses probably had been declawed too, however I only know about the male lion for sure as the owner was telling me about the problems he had walking due to the declawing.

Well of course it has negative effects for the animal. And they still have their teeth and strength.

A declawed lion will automatically bite when it loses its grip through no claws.
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kiwipo said:
In the way that despite being given expert advice on how to run the park and make a sucess of it they chose to do their own thing, and thus they are failing.
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From who?

The man who presided over the largest lion escape in Australia? or the one who Casturated the last Male Kudu?
Or someone else?
 
I guess one of those would be Peter Stroud? Wel not him,

Two of the advisers were Glen Holland and Tim Husband, there was also at least one other who wanted to allow outside investors to introduce eating venues and even accommodation, plus a scheme similar to Big Cat Sanctuary Volunteer Program to both assist with the work and generate some income.

The present manager has ignored all of this, even though the place is desperatley short of funding.
 
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Well both the ones I named are pretty reputable, although Holland was in charge when the keeper got killed.
And I know Tim got an escaped lion back in Qld some years ago, but that was one lion.
 
Husband has done alot, including letting out alot of lions and abandoning a female pygmy hippo in the NT scrub!
 
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